Hitler vs. Stalin

[Chef Ramsay]

...
This was the world facing those in Central and Eastern Europe in the 1930s.  What a choice…as if anyone living there had much of a choice.

Hitler significantly consolidated power in 1933.  The Reichstag fire, election victories (thanks to the support of the German communists, on orders from Stalin), the first concentration camps, an enabling act allowing Hitler to rule by decree.  All big news throughout the western world, compared to the minor news item of the millions killed by the intentional famines and deportations occurring in the Soviet Union at the same time.

Internationally, Stalin was given a pass: “…with the help of many sympathizers abroad….”  Hitler was confronted with “voices of criticism and outrage.”  This at a time when the deaths attributable to Stalin’s policies were infinitely greater than those attributable to Hitler’s.
...

More...[/email]]https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/03/bionic-mosquito/hitler-vs-stalin/[email][/email]

[bryant.coleman]

Hitler triggered the WW2, which caused some 80 million deaths in total. He also tried to exterminate various ethnic groups, such as the Sinte (West European) Romanies and Ashkenazi Jews, with great success. On the other-hand, Stalin was responsible for some 10-20 million deaths. Stalin cannot be compared to Hitler. Stalin was evil, but Hitler was beyond that.

[xanhbleih]

...
Internationally, Stalin was given a pass: “…with the help of many sympathizers abroad….”  Hitler was confronted with “voices of criticism and outrage.”  This at a time when the deaths attributable to Stalin’s policies were infinitely greater than those attributable to Hitler’s.
...

Hitler and fascism in general were supported in the beginning by the west too, especially business. Up to 1938 or 39 you still had American diplomats saying Hitler wasn't all bad, just misunderstood.

[saddampbuh]

almost as many lies told about stalin as hitler, on the one hand evil racist gas chamber hoax on the other gulag and man made famine, folks believe the lies depending on what sort of politics they like, white nationalist anticommunist buys the jewish lies about ussr and churchill worshipper westerner buys the jewish lies about germany

[Aggressor66]

Well, the victor seems to write history, and as such, Hitler will forever embody evil to western observers. Stalin fought with "the good guys" and as such his brutality was excused at the time.
To put the question at the other end of the scale, suppose you looked at two serial killers, one of whom killed entire families and the other killed random strangers. They're certainly different. But is it meaningful to say that the former is 'worse' than the latter?
And does it really matter?  
Each of them caused the deaths of millions either directly or indirectly.  
They were both monsters.

EDIT: and Mao probably beats them both combined.

[bryant.coleman]

EDIT: and Mao probably beats them both combined.

The Chinese cultural revolution by "Chairman" Mao resulted in more than 30 million deaths.... but that is still less than half of the roughly 80 million deaths, resulted from the WW2. And moreover, Mao never targeted any particular ethnic group for extermination.

[vrm86]

Hitler triggered the WW2, which caused some 80 million deaths in total.

Stalin participated in WW2 start also, he just had been standing behind the scene. If you agree, that WW2 started when 3rd Reich invaded Poland, what about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol

He was a silent beneficient of all that mess.

Soviet's main goal was to create classless world, so they have to conquer all countries first. For the first time they tried in 1920, but had to make a retreat on the foregrounds of Warsaw.

[Snail2]

Actually Stalin was planning a showdown with the jews before he died. The "Night of the Murdered Poets", the "Doctors plot" and the increasingly vocal anti-zionist propaganda (plus the rumours about setting up a Deportation Commission, and building new camps on the far-east) all pointing towards new large scale purges against the jewish population.

[bryant.coleman]

Hitler triggered the WW2, which caused some 80 million deaths in total.

Stalin participated in WW2 start also, he just had been standing behind the scene. If you agree, that WW2 started when 3rd Reich invaded Poland

Stalin was never interested in a war with the Nazis. He knew that the German forces were technologically much superior to his own troops. Had Hitler refrained from attacking the USSR, the Soviets never would have participated in the WW2, and the Nazis would have conquered the entire Western Europe.

[iluvbitcoins]

It's less likely to die as a resident of a country occupied by the nazis then in one occupied by communists
I think

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2091670/Hitler-Stalin-The-murderous-regimes-world.html

Hitler's 3rd

So Hitler> Stalin

[BRE]

Stalin now enjoy a bad reputation. But he is never as bad as Adolf Hitler according to the west.
Stalin was a much greater mass murderer than Adolf Hitler.

[iCEBREAKER]

Oh gawd, not another Google vs Apple thread!   

[PolarPoint]

Stalin was never interested in a war with the Nazis. He knew that the German forces were technologically much superior to his own troops. Had Hitler refrained from attacking the USSR, the Soviets never would have participated in the WW2, and the Nazis would have conquered the entire Western Europe.

Yes, Germany was very strong at the time. They took the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia without a battle and also Poland, Stalin didn't like it. He needed to buy time to mobilise troops. Hitler knew Stalin was not his ally and his mistake was thinking Germany could defeat Russia before the Russian winter.

[Nemo1024]

Hitler triggered the WW2, which caused some 80 million deaths in total.

Stalin participated in WW2 start also, he just had been standing behind the scene. If you agree, that WW2 started when 3rd Reich invaded Poland, what about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol

He was a silent beneficient of all that mess.

No. That non-aggression pact was a brilliant tactical feat that postponed an imminent attack of Germany on the Soviet Union at a time when USSR was fighting with Germany's ally - Japan - in Mongolia. At that time USSR could ill afford fighting on two fronts, and would have surely lost. If not for that pact, Europe and Russia would be speaking German now, and China and the rest of Asia - Japanese. Always look at a a bigger picture.

One of the worst things Stalin did before the war, was basically decapitating the Soviet Army - most of the command and middle layer was killed off during the purges and repressions of the 30s.

Well, the victor seems to write history, and as such, Hitler will forever embody evil to western observers. Stalin fought with "the good guys" and as such his brutality was excused at the time.
To put the question at the other end of the scale, suppose you looked at two serial killers, one of whom killed entire families and the other killed random strangers. They're certainly different. But is it meaningful to say that the former is 'worse' than the latter?
And does it really matter? 
Each of them caused the deaths of millions either directly or indirectly. 
They were both monsters.

EDIT: and Mao probably beats them both combined.

I agree with you there. Both Stalin and Hitler did some terrible things, but they are in different categories and are not comparable.

almost as many lies told about stalin as hitler, on the one hand evil racist gas chamber hoax on the other gulag and man made famine, folks believe the lies depending on what sort of politics they like, white nationalist anticommunist buys the jewish lies about ussr and churchill worshipper westerner buys the jewish lies about germany

Yes there are a lot of lies and half-truths. With regards to Stalin, I can say based on the tragic experience of my own family, that neither Gulag, nor the famine are hoaxes. And virtually every family in the former USSR has been touched by that.

Regarding famine. The hoax that was propagated over the last 20 years is that it was created specifically to target Ukraine. Famine covered large part of Russia and Ukraine, and the death toll was largest in Central Russia. My great-great-grandmother died of hunger in those years - and that branch of my family is from Southern Siberia. Famine was triggered by mismanagement of resources, by the need to industrialise and by USSR's dependence on imports - at that time Western countries refused to sell industrial items for Russian gold, but accepted grain.

Gulag. My great-grandmother, grandmother, her sister and her brother suffered through that system of forced-labour camps, put there on false accusations, and rehabilitated only after Stalin's death. Only my grandmother survived.

[Morbid]

stalin saved russia from zionists. period.

[bryant.coleman]

Yes there are a lot of lies and half-truths. With regards to Stalin, I can say based on the tragic experience of my own family, that neither Gulag, nor the famine are hoaxes. And virtually every family in the former USSR has been touched by that.

Regarding famine. The hoax that was propagated over the last 20 years is that it was created specifically to target Ukraine. Famine covered large part of Russia and Ukraine, and the death toll was largest in Central Russia. My great-great-grandmother died of hunger in those years - and that branch of my family is from Southern Siberia. Famine was triggered by mismanagement of resources, by the need to industrialise and by USSR's dependence on imports - at that time Western countries refused to sell industrial items for Russian gold, but accepted grain.

Gulag. My great-grandmother, grandmother, her sister and her brother suffered through that system of forced-labour camps, put there on false accusations, and rehabilitated only after Stalin's death. Only my grandmother survived.

A few years ago, I did some simple calculations. The USSR lost some 80 million people, as a result of WW2, Gulags, famines and reduced birth rates from these catastrophes. Taking in to account the natural growth from 1930s to 1990, that 80 million would have grown to 200 million. In 1989, the White (Slav + Germanic.etc) population in USSR was around 220 million. Imagine what would have happened, had that been some 420 million!

At that time (1990), the parasites (Azeris, Uzbecs.etc) numbered around 50 million and the Union collapsed under their pressure. Had there been some 420 million whites, then the USSR would have been able to cope with the parasites, at least for another century.

[saddampbuh]

One of the worst things Stalin did before the war, was basically decapitating the Soviet Army - most of the command and middle layer was killed off during the purges and repressions of the 30s.

the aristocratic and anti regime elements in the military needed to be got rid of. i read somewhere that hitler admired stalin for the purge and wished he had done something similar after the assassination attempt.

Regarding famine. The hoax that was propagated over the last 20 years is that it was created specifically to target Ukraine.

this is what i meant, the man made to kill ukranians on purpose part. grain had to be sold to pay for industrialisation and stalin said if he didnt make good the gap between the ussr and the developed world in 10 years the country would fall either to the capitalists or the germans

at least you can question the famine without being accused of wishing death on every last ukranian unlike the holocaust crap where its not good enough to say lots of jews were deported to camps and died when the food ran out

[Snail2]

Stalin was never interested in a war with the Nazis. He knew that the German forces were technologically much superior to his own troops. Had Hitler refrained from attacking the USSR, the Soviets never would have participated in the WW2, and the Nazis would have conquered the entire Western Europe.

This is a very interesting question. Stalin's alleged speech of 19 August 1939, the silent military build-up on the western borders of the USSR from late 1940, and purging and relocating ethnic Germans may points to less peaceful intentions.

[iCEBREAKER]

One of the worst things Stalin did before the war, was basically decapitating the Soviet Army - most of the command and middle layer was killed off during the purges and repressions of the 30s.

the aristocratic and anti regime elements in the military needed to be got rid of. i read somewhere that hitler admired stalin for the purge and wished he had done something similar after the assassination attempt.

The Bolsheviks and other Marxist elements needed to be gotten rid of.  Unfortunately the wrong side won, thanks to the treason, cowardice, and greed of the Narodniks and their fellow travelers.

The lobotomy of Russian civilization performed by Lenin and Stalin exacerbated the conflicts of WW2, and set humanity back by at least 50 years.

And to this day you jingoists still blame the Ukrainians and other victims of forced collectivization for their own famine.

First you complain "ZOMG the kulaks are growing too much food, let's take all their stuff."

Then when there is no food, you still complain "ZOMG the kulaks have sabotaged our glorious revolution, quick exile and/or kill more 'aristocratic and anti regime elements!'

Only the Japanese can come close to competing with the Russian's heroic ability to deflect blame for their own actions onto others, and deny responsibility for the consequences of those actions.   

If apologetics and revisionism were Olympic events, Russia would be assured of winning two gold metals every four years!

[criptix]

Stop! the japanese are playing in a whole different league regarding ww2.

Japans view is developing in the direction of completely denying their war of aggression, war crimes and crimes against humanity in all over south east asia.

They also begun to redact their decisions about soldiers proofen to be guilty of crimes against humanity

Wont take long until the chinese will take a aggressive stance against it.

@OP

if 1 or 1 million would make a difference then we would not be better then stalin, hitler or all the assholes out their.

Fucking for virginity and bombing for peace doesnt work.