Discussion of illegal topics?

[Lorenzo]

What are the rules governing discussion of illegal topics?

For example, distillation of homemade alcohol is illegal in most parts of the world but perfectly legal here in New Zealand. Swastikas used in a non-religious context are banned in Germany but legal elsewhere.

Most discussion forums try to comply with the laws of the country in which the servers are hosted. Others might only ban discussion of topics which are illegal in their users' own countries. Sometimes discussion forums might choose to add further restrictions on top of what is legally required.

Just curious where the servers for BCT are located and what the rules are governing discussion of topics that might be illegal in some countries but not in others. Usually this information is displayed under the terms of service/registration agreement during registration (although many forums just use the one included in the forum software without bothering to change it) but there doesn't seem to be any link to a terms of service/registration agreement when registering a new account. Searching on Google for 'bitcointalk terms of service' doesn't yield any results and there aren't any links to such pages in the footer either.

[Welsh]

Based on users country.

Trading of goods that are illegal in the seller's or buyer's country is forbidden

As well as advertising illegal sites, etc.

[Lorenzo]

Based on users country.

Trading of goods that are illegal in the seller's or buyer's country is forbidden

As well as advertising illegal sites, etc.

I was thinking more along the lines of just discussion rather than any actual trading. I've read the unofficial list of rules and it doesn't seem to cover it. For example, here is phpBB's default registration agreement which explains what can or cannot be discussed:



An example might be if there was a discussion going on about how to hack into bank accounts or how to synthesize heroin, etc. Obviously those things are illegal in almost all (if not all) countries but what about the example that I posted in the OP about distilling homemade alcohol?

[mprep]

OP of the unnoficial rule thread here. If I'm not mistaken, the server is hosted in US. As such, you'd probably should avoid in-depth discussion of illegal activities in the US. For example, discussion of how illegal drugs affect people physically or mentally in the Off-topic board I guess is OK as it isn't prohibited by law to speak about illegal activities (documentaries on TV and youtube channels, etc. do it, hell, even wikipedia explains it sometimes), however, asking how meth is made would be deleted, if not noticed first by the authorities.

Don't quote me on that as it probably depends on case by case basis and certain things might be open to speculation (like is it actually illegal, is it prohibited to talk about that,etc.). This is just what I gathered from my obervations over the few years I've been here.

[(oYo)]

I'm from Toronto. Nuff said?


That's right! I can say and do whatever I want!

All kidding aside, I'm certain you can "discuss" nearly anything you like without worrying about the thought police knocking on your door, so long as you're not seriously conspiring to commit any murders or any other such madness. Freedom of speech/expression allows for a lot of nonsense, just don't be an idiot and you should be fine.

[SaltySpitoon]

The rule is you are allowed to post topics as long as they are legal in your own country. If you can distill and sell liquor in your country, you are welcome to make a post about it.

The one exception I think I've seen, is someone was selling nsfw photos of themself (or so they claim) but they were 16 or 17. In their country that was legal, but we still deleted it as thats sort of something that we wanted to stay away from.

[Karartma1]

I guess talking about anything would be ok as this forum supports free speech. Including asking how meth is made, because they already have a TV show about that in the US itself. I don't think there would be a legal problem about that.

Searching on Google for 'bitcointalk terms of service' doesn't yield any results and there aren't any links to such pages in the footer either.

There isn't any ToS in this forum when we sign up. This also show us freedom of speech. But if you try to abuse it your content will probably be deleted.

[Lorenzo]

The rule is you are allowed to post topics as long as they are legal in your own country. If you can distill and sell liquor in your country, you are welcome to make a post about it.

Where I'm from, it's legal if you're making it for personal consumption but it's not legal to sell. You still need to apply for a license and pay taxes if you want to do that.

Since discussions tend to involve multiple people, wouldn't IPs need to be checked to insure that all participants are posting from countries where the activity being discussed is legal? So if three New Zealanders are participating in a discussion about methods of making moonshine then I assume that's OK from reading your post but what would happen if an American entered the thread? Would their posts get deleted?

EDIT: Also, it seems to contradict mrprep's post which suggests that any discussion about home distilling would not be allowed:

OP of the unnoficial rule thread here. If I'm not mistaken, the server is hosted in US. As such, you'd probably should avoid in-depth discussion of illegal activities in the US. For example, discussion of how illegal drugs affect people physically or mentally in the Off-topic board I guess is OK as it isn't prohibited by law to speak about illegal activities (documentaries on TV and youtube channels, etc. do it, hell, even wikipedia explains it sometimes), however, asking how meth is made would be deleted, if not noticed first by the authorities.

[(oYo)]

The rule is you are allowed to post topics as long as they are legal in your own country. If you can distill and sell liquor in your country, you are welcome to make a post about it.

Where I'm from, it's legal if you're making it for personal consumption but it's not legal to sell. You still need to apply for a license and pay taxes if you want to do that.

Since discussions tend to involve multiple people, wouldn't IPs need to be checked to insure that all participants are posting from countries where the activity being discussed is legal? So if three New Zealanders are participating in a discussion about methods of making moonshine then I assume that's OK from reading your post but what would happen if an American entered the thread? Would their posts get deleted?

EDIT: Also, it seems to contradict mrprep's post which suggests that any discussion about home distilling would not be allowed:

OP of the unnoficial rule thread here. If I'm not mistaken, the server is hosted in US. As such, you'd probably should avoid in-depth discussion of illegal activities in the US. For example, discussion of how illegal drugs affect people physically or mentally in the Off-topic board I guess is OK as it isn't prohibited by law to speak about illegal activities (documentaries on TV and youtube channels, etc. do it, hell, even wikipedia explains it sometimes), however, asking how meth is made would be deleted, if not noticed first by the authorities.

I'm quite certain Americans are permitted to discuss methods of making moonshine. They are just not allowed to actually make it IRL.

[freedomno1]

What are the rules governing discussion of illegal topics?

Allowed, but should be in off-topic if not related to Bitcoin discussion
Could maybe qualify in politics and society depending on the issue at hand
Drug discussion related to Bitcoin is a bit more vague but likely not a bitcoin discussion topic directly so Off Topic too
If your thinking of selling lock picks, key cutters (illegal in some jurisdictions) , etc then services.

[SaltySpitoon]

The rule is you are allowed to post topics as long as they are legal in your own country. If you can distill and sell liquor in your country, you are welcome to make a post about it.

Where I'm from, it's legal if you're making it for personal consumption but it's not legal to sell. You still need to apply for a license and pay taxes if you want to do that.

Since discussions tend to involve multiple people, wouldn't IPs need to be checked to insure that all participants are posting from countries where the activity being discussed is legal? So if three New Zealanders are participating in a discussion about methods of making moonshine then I assume that's OK from reading your post but what would happen if an American entered the thread? Would their posts get deleted?

EDIT: Also, it seems to contradict mrprep's post which suggests that any discussion about home distilling would not be allowed:

OP of the unnoficial rule thread here. If I'm not mistaken, the server is hosted in US. As such, you'd probably should avoid in-depth discussion of illegal activities in the US. For example, discussion of how illegal drugs affect people physically or mentally in the Off-topic board I guess is OK as it isn't prohibited by law to speak about illegal activities (documentaries on TV and youtube channels, etc. do it, hell, even wikipedia explains it sometimes), however, asking how meth is made would be deleted, if not noticed first by the authorities.

No, we dont have to check IPs as its really not that big of a deal.We dont have to monitor users, its on the individuals involved if they get caught doing something they shouldn't be. I'm pretty sure 99% of the time, something can be illegal in your country, but not illegal to discuss (as mprep said) the only time its really an issue are in sales threads, and even then its on the individual. If you buy some psychodelic blowfish that's illegal in your country, its not our responsibility to make sure that you did your due diligence. This is a global forum, rules and standards are different from country to country. Its not our job to enforce the thousand ridiculous rules of countries around the world.

[Grand_Voyageur]

The rule is you are allowed to post topics as long as they are legal in your own country. If you can distill and sell liquor in your country, you are welcome to make a post about it.

Where I'm from, it's legal if you're making it for personal consumption but it's not legal to sell. You still need to apply for a license and pay taxes if you want to do that.

Since discussions tend to involve multiple people, wouldn't IPs need to be checked to insure that all participants are posting from countries where the activity being discussed is legal? So if three New Zealanders are participating in a discussion about methods of making moonshine then I assume that's OK from reading your post but what would happen if an American entered the thread? Would their posts get deleted?

EDIT: Also, it seems to contradict mrprep's post which suggests that any discussion about home distilling would not be allowed:

OP of the unnoficial rule thread here. If I'm not mistaken, the server is hosted in US. As such, you'd probably should avoid in-depth discussion of illegal activities in the US. For example, discussion of how illegal drugs affect people physically or mentally in the Off-topic board I guess is OK as it isn't prohibited by law to speak about illegal activities (documentaries on TV and youtube channels, etc. do it, hell, even wikipedia explains it sometimes), however, asking how meth is made would be deleted, if not noticed first by the authorities.

No, we dont have to check IPs as its really not that big of a deal.We dont have to monitor users, its on the individuals involved if they get caught doing something they shouldn't be. I'm pretty sure 99% of the time, something can be illegal in your country, but not illegal to discuss (as mprep said) the only time its really an issue are in sales threads, and even then its on the individual. If you buy some psychodelic blowfish that's illegal in your country, its not our responsibility to make sure that you did your due diligence. This is a global forum, rules and standards are different from country to country. Its not our job to enforce the thousand ridiculous rules of countries around the world.

I can assume from your comment that a informational neutral feedback (thus not affecting trust score) like the ones left over the MSDN Keys affair could be useful & helpful. e.g. I my country selling software keys outside official channels without COAs is a misdemeanor, or sometimes a felony, accordingly to IP protection law and other laws. Personally, I would like to save some bucks from keys but having to deal with courts & to pay advocates are too much to myself. So, I may put a neutral warning with references to remind users to check the relevant applicable laws before trading like this: Selling Keys from MSDN is not allowed as per Microsoft own TOS (see http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/selling-product-key-from-msdntechnet-and-or/cf40c328-67ce-49b6-bbb6-c28cda92c06e) and may also be a misdemeanor or felony in your jurisdiction accordingly to IP protection law and/or other laws. This can apply also to Keys from other software houses. Always do your own due diligence before engaging in a trade!