Jonathan Ryan Owens locked Rebate, Zip.A, Alberto & BDT thread

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

I have some information on this, but Im nervous of I release it in the forums it will breach the trust someone has of me.

However, the info I have can clear alot of this up and vindicate certain people.

Im having a moral dilemma now. Can anyone provide some guidance?

[1714595213]

1714595213

[Vladimir]

Perhaps without disclosing any details you can just tell us your conclusions on the matter. Some of us only want to know tl;dr from someone they trust, without wasting any time on any details.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Perhaps without disclosing any details you can just tell us your conclusions on the matter. Some of us only want to know tl;dr from someone they trust, without wasting any time on any details.

I know 100% for a fact Alberto is BitScalper

Bitcoin Rebate and Kronos is Alberto's projects as well, from what I understand John Owens got the bad end of the stick here,

I'm fortunate to have befriended John Owens when I was in San Francisco and he is a super nice guy who is trying to do alot for Bitcoin. He really had no bad intentions.

Any attempt of Alberto (or his pseudonyms) to spread FUD about John Owens is false and I can confirm this. He is attempting to push blame on JRO and make himself look less guilty.

-Charlie

[Coinoisseur]

Charlie,

Any comment or knowledge on whether funds were mixed to help launch that bitcoin/tech incubator building project?

My main concern is how this affects people's attitudes towards putting Bitcoins into GLBSE listings, of which I have one. Hopefully it gets resolved relatively amicably for investors.

I really don't think it should be up to the investors to figure out what percentage of blame lies where.

- Robert

[Bitcoin Oz]

None of this reflects well on the people involved.

[Raoul Duke]

WTF, so let me get this straight... MNW spent countless hours trying to convince everyone that leo/Coinexchanger/Maria was bitscalper and he was working with the real bitscalper on kronos.io all the time.

Priceless!

[Bigpiggy01]

WTF, so let me get this straight... MNW spent countless hours trying to convince everyone that leo/Coinexchanger/Maria was bitscalper and he was working with the real bitscalper on kronos.io all the time.

Priceless!

Yup see what kind of a scummy douche he is?

[Serge]

Perhaps without disclosing any details you can just tell us your conclusions on the matter. Some of us only want to know tl;dr from someone they trust, without wasting any time on any details.

I know 100% for a fact Alberto is BitScalper

Bitcoin Rebate and Kronos is Alberto's projects as well, from what I understand John Owens got the bad end of the stick here,

I'm fortunate to have befriended John Owens when I was in San Francisco and he is a super nice guy who is trying to do alot for Bitcoin. He really had no bad intentions.

Any attempt of Alberto (or his pseudonyms) to spread FUD about John Owens is false and I can confirm this. He is attempting to push blame on JRO and make himself look less guilty.

-Charlie

Not directed at you, Charlie

But where the f... did all the money go from a fore mentioned  assets?

at the moment i'm not buying neither one of these guys stories, not JRO's nor Alberto's, until there is a solid answer to this question.

[Coinoisseur]

You shouldn't have to buy any story, that's for them to settle between the business partners. How they deal with the investors is what's important.

[Serge]

You shouldn't have to buy any story, that's for them to settle between the business partners. How they deal with the investors is what's important.

thank you for being clever.

now someone of involved parties please answer the question: where are the money collected from investors on GLBSE?

[Bigpiggy01]

You shouldn't have to buy any story, that's for them to settle between the business partners. How they deal with the investors is what's important.

Actually, how somebody comports themselves is a fairly big part of business unless you're in say Somalia or somewhere similar there it only matters who has the biggest schlong.

[Coinoisseur]

Yes that's why I said "How they deal with the investors is what's important." Edit: I suppose for clarity I should have tacked on "at least until the investors are made as whole as possible"

I'm not saying anyone thinking of dealing with them in the future shouldn't consider the fact that they have devolved into open mudslinging, regardless of truth or accuracy. I'm merely saying the investors shouldn't allow themselves to be distracted from the core issue of where their bitcoins went and how they will be returned.

You shouldn't have to buy any story, that's for them to settle between the business partners. How they deal with the investors is what's important.

Actually, how somebody comports themselves is a fairly big part of business unless you're in say Somalia or somewhere similar there it only matters who has the biggest schlong.

[Coinoisseur]

In case there is any confusion I'm referring to "20Mission", http://bitcoinbolt.rememberi.es/category/jonathan-ryan-owens/ - http://20mission.com/, as bitcoin.me was concerned about in the Rebate thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83784.msg1093996#msg1093996

Charlie,

Any comment or knowledge on whether funds were mixed to help launch that bitcoin/tech incubator building project?

My main concern is how this affects people's attitudes towards putting Bitcoins into GLBSE listings, of which I have one. Hopefully it gets resolved relatively amicably for investors.

I really don't think it should be up to the investors to figure out what percentage of blame lies where.

- Robert

[repentance]

Neither the Kronos hack nor the loss of Brian Cartmell's funds should be allowed to have any impact on GLBSE investors, regardless of who was responsible for those events.  The real concern at this point is whether - independently of those two events - any of the GLBSE-raised funds have been inappropriately spent, if so by whom, and how much of their investment can be recovered.

[Nefario]

Neither the Kronos hack nor the loss of Brian Cartmell's funds should be allowed to have any impact on GLBSE investors, regardless of who was responsible for those events.  The real concern at this point is whether - independently of those two events - any of the GLBSE-raised funds have been inappropriately spent, if so by whom, and how much of their investment can be recovered.

I think this is very much the core issue, there are three assets involved BDT, REBATE, ZIP.A from what I guess BDT funds have been used specifically for the funding of BitDayTrade, whether it's successful or not isn't really important, so I think that asset is ok.

Regarding REBATE, Alberto has said that he'll pay back 1K BTC and JRO told me on the phone that he will match him. Where the funds went? To whom? who knows

ZIP.A, I have no idea what is happening regarding this asset or where the funds are, I did get an email from JRO listing all the dev work that has been done for ZIP.A

[Bitcoin Oz]

Neither the Kronos hack nor the loss of Brian Cartmell's funds should be allowed to have any impact on GLBSE investors, regardless of who was responsible for those events.  The real concern at this point is whether - independently of those two events - any of the GLBSE-raised funds have been inappropriately spent, if so by whom, and how much of their investment can be recovered.

If funds have been spent on other projects from an IPO of bitcoinrebate or ZIP.A then  any profits from those should reimburse any loss. Maybe bondholders of failed projects could be compensated with equity in projects the funds were spent on.

[Bitcoin Oz]

https://privatepaste.com/5241fafb45

I predict a shitstorm is coming.

[Kluge]

You can't collect from someone with no money, and a shitstorm will damage reputation necessary to collect funds for payback.

I suggest everyone just keep calm, and give this a couple months' more time. Investors could be screwed, yes, but collecting at this point won't salvage much. We can be angry, but try to keep it out of mind for a while. These various securities have effectively become loans, and I can speak from experience to say it's a very bad idea to ruin someone in trying to collect money when they need to collect money themselves. Loans need to be symbiotic, and that means you can't immediately turn on the rape switch when someone's in default. To do otherwise would result in tragedy for everyone with their neck out. Partial loan calls can be symbiotic if it forces a business/individual to cut away all the fat, but in this case, we'd be taking all his meat.... okay - bad analogy.


JRO might speak in depth, eventually... hopefully - but at this point, it seems we're better off expecting repayment within a year, and not demanding answers in the meantime. I believe I am most exposed, fwiw. I don't mean to be a bully, and I have no authority to do so, but I would very much unappreciate actions which harm JRO, as it harms everyone with money in him. Especially if you have nothing at stake, please shut up.  

ETA: Not directed at anyone in particular.

[SNS]

JRO received from Zipconf and Rebate IPO approximately 10000btc.
Where he spent all this funds? Or all this funds were stolen from the Kronos?
I do not believe it! Why it was necessary to deposit such sum to the beta project?
I invested btc in zipconf and rebate, why I'm losing all their funds because of the Kronos hack? I would like to hear a clear answer from the JRO, what happened with 10000 btc, which were obtained from the IPO?

[cytokine]

You can't collect from someone with no money, and a shitstorm will damage reputation necessary to collect funds for payback.

I suggest everyone just keep calm, and give this a couple months' more time. Investors could be screwed, yes, but collecting at this point won't salvage much. We can be angry, but try to keep it out of mind for a while. These various securities have effectively become loans, and I can speak from experience to say it's a very bad idea to ruin someone in trying to collect money when they need to collect money themselves. Loans need to be symbiotic, and that means you can't immediately turn on the rape switch when someone's in default. To do otherwise would result in tragedy for everyone with their neck out. Partial loan calls can be symbiotic if it forces a business/individual to cut away all the fat, but in this case, we'd be taking all his meat.... okay - bad analogy.


JRO might speak in depth, eventually... hopefully - but at this point, it seems we're better off expecting repayment within a year, and not demanding answers in the meantime. I believe I am most exposed, fwiw. I don't mean to be a bully, and I have no authority to do so, but I would very much unappreciate actions which harm JRO, as it harms everyone with money in him. Especially if you have nothing at stake, please shut up.  

ETA: Not directed at anyone in particular.

+1000 My thoughts exactly and the reason why I'm not "shit-storming" right now despite the situation. Instead, I am encouraging Alberto to focus on fixing the security holes in BDT. As I've said several times, these security holes are not hard to fix at all, a few weeks max with the source-code and it could all be resolved, and probably just a few days for the most glaring stuff. Then it just needs a long period of testing and hardening.

But yelling, screaming, and fingerpointing does nothing to help anyone at this point; if anything, as you put it, it reduces the odds of investors coming out on top.