Neteller/Skrill Reversible Questions

[viking02]

I know Neteller and Skrill are reversible so accepting it in trades is not a good idea.  However can someone tell me what are the reasons someone can reverse a skrill or neteller transfer?  For example if someone trades using a hacked skrill/neteller account, then in the end the seller of the bitcoin would lose the skrill/neteller funds right?  Whats another reason besides this one?  I assume someone can't say they sent skrill/neteller to wrong person by mistake to get it reversed?  Im curious how many ways can a skrill/neteller transfer be reversed.


Another question i have is how long can someone reverse a skrill or neteller or transfer?  Example if i receive skrill/neteller from someone, is it true if the funds are still there after 30 days, then no reversal can be possible?  Or is it 60 days or 90 days?  I believe paypal can be reversed up till 90 days or 6 months right?  What about skrill or neteller?  Reason i ask this is b/c i will be trading with someone for their neteller.

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[TXWA]

I know Neteller and Skrill are reversible so accepting it in trades is not a good idea.  However can someone tell me what are the reasons someone can reverse a skrill or neteller transfer?  For example if someone trades using a hacked skrill/neteller account, then in the end the seller of the bitcoin would lose the skrill/neteller funds right?  Whats another reason besides this one?  I assume someone can't say they sent skrill/neteller to wrong person by mistake to get it reversed?  Im curious how many ways can a skrill/neteller transfer be reversed.


Another question i have is how long can someone reverse a skrill or neteller or transfer?  Example if i receive skrill/neteller from someone, is it true if the funds are still there after 30 days, then no reversal can be possible?  Or is it 60 days or 90 days?  I believe paypal can be reversed up till 90 days or 6 months right?  What about skrill or neteller?  Reason i ask this is b/c i will be trading with someone for their neteller.

The most-likely reason companies like Skrill or Neteller process such requests are if an user uses stolen credit card data to fund the account.
So if your trade partner uses "dirty" funds to pay you (and you for sure do not know where the funds has their source), you will loose your funds.
Every case is individually checked by a staff members of those payment companies.
That's the reason I would recommend you to use e.g. payeer instead. They accept credit cards, but disallow/don't even offer chargebacks.

I can't help you with the reversal times they have, but I guess if it's from illegal cash, they do it anytime they want as it never becomes "legal money".

Hope I could help you a bit.

[lucasjkr]

They could say "i bought something from the seller, but they never delivered", and with Bitcoin, it's impossible to prove otherwise - you can show the transaction on the blockchain, but you can't prove the person at the other end had control of the address that received it.

"My kid sat at my computer and made unauthorized transactions"

SO many options. The short version is: don't sell bitcoin for payments that can be reversed, at least not to people you don't know. There is zero downside for them, just upside in the form of receiving bitcoin and not losing the funds they used to buy it.

[viking02]

They could say "i bought something from the seller, but they never delivered", and with Bitcoin, it's impossible to prove otherwise - you can show the transaction on the blockchain, but you can't prove the person at the other end had control of the address that received it.

"My kid sat at my computer and made unauthorized transactions"

SO many options. The short version is: don't sell bitcoin for payments that can be reversed, at least not to people you don't know. There is zero downside for them, just upside in the form of receiving bitcoin and not losing the funds they used to buy it.

Do you know how long a neteller or skrill can be reversed in terms of days?  Thus if after 30 days, or 90 days, no problems, then there won't be any issue at all?

[chmod755]

The short version is: don't sell bitcoin for payments that can be reversed, at least not to people you don't know.

Even payment processors that claim to be irreversible are doing reversals - in some cases you just need to tell them that you've been scammed in other cases you need to actually file a police report.

[byt411]

They could say "i bought something from the seller, but they never delivered", and with Bitcoin, it's impossible to prove otherwise - you can show the transaction on the blockchain, but you can't prove the person at the other end had control of the address that received it.

"My kid sat at my computer and made unauthorized transactions"

SO many options. The short version is: don't sell bitcoin for payments that can be reversed, at least not to people you don't know. There is zero downside for them, just upside in the form of receiving bitcoin and not losing the funds they used to buy it.

Do you know how long a neteller or skrill can be reversed in terms of days?  Thus if after 30 days, or 90 days, no problems, then there won't be any issue at all?

Directly quoted from Neteller's TOS:

10.5    If you receive a refund for purchases made with your Card, the refund will be paid to your Account. For legal reasons, you are not entitled to receive refunds in cash for Transactions made using your Card. Refunds may take up to 30 days to process.

10.6We accept no responsibility for the goods or services you purchase using the NETELLER Service. All such disputes must be addressed directly with the Merchant providing the relevant goods or services. Once you have used the NETELLER Service to make a purchase, we are unable to stop that Transaction. However, where you have used your Card to buy goods or services you may have a claim against the Merchant if the goods or services are unsatisfactory, not supplied, supplied only in part or do not match the supplier’s description. You must notify us of any dispute within 60 days of the purchase and the chargeback will only be applied to your account if successfully secured from the merchant through MasterCard; MasterCard and not us will determine who will win the chargeback. If you wrongly make a chargeback claim, we will be entitled to charge you any fees we reasonably incur in pursuing the chargeback claim and we will be entitled to debit your Account with the amount of any such fees.

So, 60 days, and it will take up to 30 days to get the funds back for Neteller.

[notlist3d]

The short version is: don't sell bitcoin for payments that can be reversed, at least not to people you don't know.

Even payment processors that claim to be irreversible are doing reversals - in some cases you just need to tell them that you've been scammed in other cases you need to actually file a police report.

It is sad but I would not sell BTC for anything that has a claims center, or that someone can say was unauthorized trade. All it takes is one bad trade and you lose profit from who knows how many legit trades. 

My worst experience was actually as a buyer of watercooling parts.  My credit card company gave the company 3 months to deliver replacement products to me for broken pumps.  I had bought replacement pumps as I could not have downtime and the parts they shipped slower from china then I ever had seen.  One part took a month.  One took over a month.   It counted as delivering the product even though over a month later then was scheduled.

[viking02]

Okay so reading that, that means if i receive neteller say may 1st, then by july 1st, no issues, then my funds are good right?  Also what happens if you withdrawn those funds before and at the time have 0 balance then suddenly get a negative balance.  I assume you have to pay neteller these funds back if u withdrawn the funds earlier?  I'm curious how this would go if the other person scammed you with fraudulent funds.

[byt411]

Okay so reading that, that means if i receive neteller say may 1st, then by july 1st, no issues, then my funds are good right?  Also what happens if you withdrawn those funds before and at the time have 0 balance then suddenly get a negative balance.  I assume you have to pay neteller these funds back if u withdrawn the funds earlier?  I'm curious how this would go if the other person scammed you with fraudulent funds.

They could potentially legally pursue you, since in the payment processor's view you are the one that scammed the scammer.
I see no reason to take the risk at all.

[viking02]

So basically dont ever accept neteller or skrill no matter what unless that person you are trading with is super reputable then?

[byt411]

So basically dont ever accept neteller or skrill no matter what unless that person you are trading with is super reputable then?

Exactly. Same goes for things like PayPal or EgoPay or things like that.

[TXWA]

So basically dont ever accept neteller or skrill no matter what unless that person you are trading with is super reputable then?

Correct, as taking such payment methods is always a risk, no matter how trusted your partner is.
The only few payment processors which operate offshore and do not care about anything are e.g. Perfect Money and Payeer.

From PM's FAQ:

Is it possible to cancel a completed payment transaction?
Any payment made in the system cannot be canceled.

[byt411]

So basically dont ever accept neteller or skrill no matter what unless that person you are trading with is super reputable then?

Correct, as taking such payment methods is always a risk, no matter how trusted your partner is.
The only few payment processors which operate offshore and do not care about anything are e.g. Perfect Money and Payeer.

From PM's FAQ:

Is it possible to cancel a completed payment transaction?
Any payment made in the system cannot be canceled.

If they don't comply with KYC and AML laws, they can be shut down anytime, just like Liberty Reserve.

[randy8777]

So basically dont ever accept neteller or skrill no matter what unless that person you are trading with is super reputable then?

for sure. all this is done to protect te buyer. but they simply don't think about the seller. even when dealing with a trusted member, then still it is not totally safe. especially if their account is hacked.

[grue]

duplicate topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1012390.0