how about removing ALL computers

[laptopsftw]

something bothered me,since ive started bitcoin

i think all the transactions are stored in computers,thats the core,right?if that's the core,what if we remove all the core's existence?does this mean all the bitcoins existed will be lost?

[samson]

something bothered me,since ive started bitcoin

i think all the transactions are stored in computers,thats the core,right?if that's the core,what if we remove all the core's existence?does this mean all the bitcoins existed will be lost?

You will find that there's 1000's of computers / nodes out there operated by different people who will never remove their copy of the blockchain.

This is the beauty of the blockchain, it's massively distributed on a global scale.

It's not feasible to simply shut it down.

[Kazimir]

something bothered me,since ive started bitcoin

i think all the transactions are stored in computers,thats the core,right?if that's the core,what if we remove all the core's existence?does this mean all the bitcoins existed will be lost?

Bitcoins do not exist in the first place.

There is only a huge list of transactions. This implicitly defines a balance that we associate with an address. For easy of use, we say "there's 3 bitcoins on this address" but there are no bitcoins anywhere, not even virtually.

Furthermore, yes, if ALL copies of the blockchain data would be destroyed, then all bitcoins are effectively gone. Just like if ALL copies of your bank's account database are deleted, the euros or dollars are effectively gone.

Difference is, there are thousands and thousands active full nodes world wide, and probably many more full copies of the blockchain floating around. Nobody can delete them all. I personally have a backup of the blockchain data on an external USB drive which is never connected online. There are people printing the blockchain and storing it a vault. There might be freaks carving it in stone. Seriously, this data is so important and there are SO many copies, this will never be deleted. Maybe in 4.5 billion years when the sun burns up, but not in the foreseeable future, and definitely not as long as there is at least 1 person in the world who wishes to use Bitcoin.

[hugs1BTC]

something bothered me,since ive started bitcoin

i think all the transactions are stored in computers,thats the core,right?if that's the core,what if we remove all the core's existence?does this mean all the bitcoins existed will be lost?

Bitcoins do not exist in the first place.

There is only a huge list of transactions. This implicitly defines a balance that we associate with an address. For easy of use, we say "there's 3 bitcoins on this address" but there are no bitcoins anywhere, not even virtually.

Furthermore, yes, if ALL copies of the blockchain data would be destroyed, then all bitcoins are effectively gone. Just like if ALL copies of your bank's account database are deleted, the euros or dollars are effectively gone.

Difference is, there are thousands and thousands active full nodes world wide, and probably many more full copies of the blockchain floating around. Nobody can delete them all. I personally have a backup of the blockchain data on an external USB drive which is never connected online. There are people printing the blockchain and storing it a vault. There might be freaks carving it in stone. Seriously, this data is so important and there are SO many copies, this will never be deleted. Maybe in 4.5 billion years when the sun burns up, but not in the foreseeable future, and definitely not as long as there is at least 1 person in the world who wishes to use Bitcoin.

+1

This is the reason why Bitcoin is "decentralized". It is so distributed that it's practically impossible to delete the blockchain.

[randy8777]

i run currently 2 full nodes just to support bitcoin. the only person that can delete it is me. no one else.
the more people with active nodes the more decentralized it is.

[cakir]

Well, that's why Jeff Garzik started "satellite" project. Check here; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334701.0
I think this satellite project is being developed in case of catastrophic failures, attacks to the network etc.

A target-spesific virus may delete/corrupt blockchain data on PC's etc... Even it's so small but it's a probability...

[notlist3d]

Well, that's why Jeff Garzik started "satellite" project. Check here; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334701.0
I think this satellite project is being developed in case of catastrophic failures, attacks to the network etc.

A target-spesific virus may delete/corrupt blockchain data on PC's etc... Even it's so small but it's a probability...

The thing is it's so small we don't really have to worry about this.  If we ever got down to a level it is a problem I think we would see bitcoin people gear up and set up full nodes.  Look at past when 51 percent was a possible issue all community came together.

You could set up Raspberry Pi's across the world for not a lot of money quick and have ton's of nodes pop online fast.

[WhatTheGox]

something bothered me,since ive started bitcoin

i think all the transactions are stored in computers,thats the core,right?if that's the core,what if we remove all the core's existence?does this mean all the bitcoins existed will be lost?

Bitcoin is everywhere but it is also nowhere, a much better design then the matrix which was centralized by the machines.

[nwfella]

Like a cold mist bitcoin is!! :p

[sgk]

something bothered me,since ive started bitcoin

i think all the transactions are stored in computers,thats the core,right?if that's the core,what if we remove all the core's existence?does this mean all the bitcoins existed will be lost?

If you remove all nodes (I think you mean 'nodes' when you say 'cores' - computers that hold full block chain), Bitcoins will not be lost.
Only block chain will be lost, which contains the data of all Bitcoin transactions carried out till date.

Bitcoins are still safe in that case (that reside in wallet.dat files) but it would be impossible to claim those coins without the block chain.

[Ingatqhvq]

something bothered me,since ive started bitcoin

i think all the transactions are stored in computers,thats the core,right?if that's the core,what if we remove all the core's existence?does this mean all the bitcoins existed will be lost?

The miners is not only computer, and the mobile phone also can be as wallet, and rassypi too, so your thought is just wrong.

[NUFCrichard]

something bothered me,since ive started bitcoin

i think all the transactions are stored in computers,thats the core,right?if that's the core,what if we remove all the core's existence?does this mean all the bitcoins existed will be lost?

Even a massive solar flare that hits the earth, wiping out all electronics, wouldn't destroy the entire world, only those that are facing the sun at the time and are unprotected, i.e. not in basements or covered by metal.

The chances of the blockchain being wiped out is incredibly small, I reckon even if a virus was started to destroy it, there would still be blockchains on usb sticks, or offline that could restore most of the info when the virus was eradicated.

[notlist3d]

something bothered me,since ive started bitcoin

i think all the transactions are stored in computers,thats the core,right?if that's the core,what if we remove all the core's existence?does this mean all the bitcoins existed will be lost?

Even a massive solar flare that hits the earth, wiping out all electronics, wouldn't destroy the entire world, only those that are facing the sun at the time and are unprotected, i.e. not in basements or covered by metal.

The chances of the blockchain being wiped out is incredibly small, I reckon even if a virus was started to destroy it, there would still be blockchains on usb sticks, or offline that could restore most of the info when the virus was eradicated.

I know of one company that utilizes massive dug out rock mining for secure and safe storage of data.  Very smart company they turned the old "veins" into storage it's temperature controlled, secure a pretty nice place.  I'm not aware of any active servers, it was mostly disaster recovery.  Can't find a active link about this one they might not still be doing it.

Other one I know is a cave the government dug at one time for US government agency's.   Go on many years later the cave was converted into offices anyone can rent.   Been a LONG time since I've been in it but last I knew there was one company hosting in their. (And hosting is normal servers not miners).  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SubTropolis

[LOBSTER]

So - hypothetical - it would be possible to bring the Bitcoin network down with vanishing the Blockchain of all devices?

[notlist3d]

So - hypothetical - it would be possible to bring the Bitcoin network down with vanishing the Blockchain of all devices?

If there were no nodes there would be no access to the blockchain.  You could in theory if only one computer control the chain.

But again with price of Raspberry Pi's and how many people care about bitcoin this will never happen.

[ranochigo]

Well, that's why Jeff Garzik started "satellite" project. Check here; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334701.0
I think this satellite project is being developed in case of catastrophic failures, attacks to the network etc.

A target-spesific virus may delete/corrupt blockchain data on PC's etc... Even it's so small but it's a probability...

The main question is how is the virus going to infect 6000+ nodes and most of them are running Linux given that many host it on VPS and raspberrypi. Some people don't do anything other than making it a node. So it would be hard to get them to execute a virus.

[Kazimir]

Bitcoins are still safe in that case (that reside in wallet.dat files) but it would be impossible to claim those coins without the block chain.

Not really. The wallet.dat files only contain the private keys. Without a blockchain, these private keys are useless. Without a verified transaction history (which is the blockchain), your private keys hold just as little (i.e. zero) bitcoins as any random non-existing private key that you generate on the fly.

Again: bitcoins exist nowhere. The blockchain or transaction history, which is stored decentralized and redundantly all over the world (mostly online in the p2p network, but also offline backups), determines which addresses hold which balances. The private key for a particular address, which is stored in individual wallets (online or offline or both, whatever you prefer), is necessary to spend that balance.

[sgk]

So - hypothetical - it would be possible to bring the Bitcoin network down with vanishing the Blockchain of all devices?

If there were no nodes there would be no access to the blockchain.  You could in theory if only one computer control the chain.
[...]

Yes, even if we have ONE node that has the most recent block chain, we should be good to go.
The problem will be if we have scattered block chain across multiple computers but NO nodes.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940440.msg10309038#msg10309038


Here's a fellow looking for full nodes to sync block chain of an alt coin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=984040 

[notlist3d]

So - hypothetical - it would be possible to bring the Bitcoin network down with vanishing the Blockchain of all devices?

If there were no nodes there would be no access to the blockchain.  You could in theory if only one computer control the chain.
[...]

Yes, even if we have ONE node that has the most recent block chain, we should be good to go.
The problem will be if we have scattered block chain across multiple computers but NO nodes.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940440.msg10309038#msg10309038


Here's a fellow looking for full nodes to sync block chain of an alt coin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=984040 

Only problem I see is it seems if only one node was up the might be able to control aspects of bitcoin transactions.  I could be wrong on this but I would think there one they could a possibility of attacks.

[sgk]

So - hypothetical - it would be possible to bring the Bitcoin network down with vanishing the Blockchain of all devices?

If there were no nodes there would be no access to the blockchain.  You could in theory if only one computer control the chain.
[...]

Yes, even if we have ONE node that has the most recent block chain, we should be good to go.
The problem will be if we have scattered block chain across multiple computers but NO nodes.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940440.msg10309038#msg10309038


Here's a fellow looking for full nodes to sync block chain of an alt coin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=984040 

Only problem I see is it seems if only one node was up the might be able to control aspects of bitcoin transactions.  I could be wrong on this but I would think there one they could a possibility of attacks.

Absolutely. With reference to a 51% attack that peopel keep talking about, let's call this a 100% attack