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BrontoBurgers
Newbie
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Activity: 1
Merit: 0
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April 06, 2015, 05:50:55 PM |
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yeah, just more thievery from wall st.
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RodeoX
Legendary
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Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
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April 06, 2015, 06:57:53 PM |
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And I thought arbitrage was hard now. Looks like 1 full second is going to be an eternity soon.
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Cryddit
Legendary
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Activity: 924
Merit: 1132
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April 06, 2015, 08:33:29 PM |
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Heh. Sub-second trading with opportunities to settle only at unpredictable intervals when the blocks come out?
Dang, I need to cook some popcorn! This is going to be fun to watch!
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CtrlAltBernanke420
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April 06, 2015, 09:23:04 PM |
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Heh. Sub-second trading with opportunities to settle only at unpredictable intervals when the blocks come out?
Dang, I need to cook some popcorn! This is going to be fun to watch!
Will we know when this begins…
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Meuh6879
Legendary
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Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
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April 06, 2015, 09:30:38 PM |
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they fail. because exchange apply tax ... and bitcoin network apply tax. sorry, folks. no shadow trading in nanoseconds here ...
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thejaytiesto
Legendary
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Activity: 1358
Merit: 1014
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April 06, 2015, 10:57:15 PM |
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they fail. because exchange apply tax ... and bitcoin network apply tax. sorry, folks. no shadow trading in nanoseconds here ... Even if you put those taxes into the equation, trading with cryptocurrencies is way better (and more fun) than with the same old ass assets.
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Meuh6879
Legendary
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Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
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April 06, 2015, 11:02:02 PM |
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that, it's true ... but it's not cheap and traders don't love to pay tax for "every transaction". if yes, financial crisis will be solve from decade now.
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countryfree
Legendary
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Activity: 3066
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
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April 06, 2015, 11:09:26 PM |
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Amazing: One persistent problem for the bitcoin market is it can be hard to trade because there aren’t enough buyers and sellers at exchanges. I have never experienced a shortage of buyers nor sellers. Did anyone, or am I playing too small?
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I used to be a citizen and a taxpayer. Those days are long gone.
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jjacob
Legendary
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Activity: 1554
Merit: 1026
★Nitrogensports.eu★
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April 06, 2015, 11:58:01 PM |
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that, it's true ... but it's not cheap and traders don't love to pay tax for "every transaction". if yes, financial crisis will be solve from decade now. They would probably negotiate a deal with exchanges. And the transaction fee is really negligible when you are dealing with large amounts. I presume they won't be dealing with dust.
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kelsey
Legendary
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Activity: 1876
Merit: 1000
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April 07, 2015, 12:00:51 AM |
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Amazing: One persistent problem for the bitcoin market is it can be hard to trade because there aren’t enough buyers and sellers at exchanges. I have never experienced a shortage of buyers nor sellers. Did anyone, or am I playing too small? well yes for wall street bitcoin liquidity is on the small side (though its marketcap of in the billions is nothing to be sneezed at, even for wall street)
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jonald_fyookball
Legendary
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Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
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April 07, 2015, 01:40:26 AM |
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There is nothing inherent to HFT that would cause higher volatility. Increased volume in general may cause higher volatility in the short run, and lower volatility once the volume stabilizes.
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Cryddit
Legendary
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Activity: 924
Merit: 1132
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April 07, 2015, 01:59:27 AM |
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What it takes to get really stupid volatility is two or more robots, all trying to be faster than the others and programmed in a way that, taken together, generates positive feedback. You see smaller versions of this on Amazon sometimes. A while back two different people came out with 'how to write a compiler' books, and unbeknownst to each other, they both used dynamic-pricing bots. One guy had one that kept setting his price $4 below the other guy's, and the other guy had one that kept setting his price $6 over the first guy's. Before the end of the first day, they were (both) priced a bit over US$14000. Not generating many sales at that price, but hey, at that price a few would be enough! Anyway, the guys with the robot-traders fiddle their algorithms six times a day, always trying to outguess each other, and they like to buy as soon as something shows an uptick - which drives the price up so others buy because, hey, uptick, etc. Same thing with selling "at the top" -- if everybody does it, it creates the crash that defines what went before as the "top." They've gotten some experience with what's likely to cause explosions and gotten better at not doing that, but multi-bot interactions with dozens or hundreds of bots will usually contain at least a few sets that generate positive feedback. Depending on how much money the bots in those sets control, you still get things going boom - or crash - every so often.
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Miracal
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April 07, 2015, 02:02:28 AM |
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There is nothing inherent to HFT that would cause higher volatility. Increased volume in general may cause higher volatility in the short run, and lower volatility once the volume stabilizes. Amusingly, the WSJ says that "their involvement could help reduce volatility in the market for bitcoin, which has struggled to gain legitimacy in part because of concerns about wild swings in its price." Uhm, no: the arrival of HFT in any asset class merely assures that volatility surges to the moon, especially when it is an asset that trades without explicit central bank backing such as stocks, or FX. I don't think just the big players' involvement will stablize the price. But it is a good beginning, which will bring more big finincial institution in WS or anywhere, or individual traders to come to this market. Until then no big players can easily control the price.
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Ron~Popeil
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April 07, 2015, 02:21:53 AM |
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Willie bot sent us over 1k. 2 major bots might be the "moon" everyone is hoping for. I would rather have slow steady growth than crazy boom and bust periods but it should be fun for traders.
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gogxmagog
Legendary
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Activity: 1456
Merit: 1010
Ad maiora!
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April 07, 2015, 05:16:47 AM |
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yes, if a doofus like Karepeles can set up some bots to manipulate the price, these big players will be able to do whatever they like. don't think they don't already, where ever they spot an opportunity. At least we might see another bubble ATH soon. that would be nice.
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BitcoinNewbie15
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 574
Merit: 296
Bitcoin isn't a bubble. It's the pin!
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April 07, 2015, 05:53:46 AM |
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Btc has been volatile today. But more volatility is always welcome i wonder if this will cause the markets to be more volatile...
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AGD
Legendary
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Activity: 2070
Merit: 1164
Keeper of the Private Key
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April 07, 2015, 06:22:59 AM |
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I will be at dawn patrol when the waves start firing, dude.
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jonald_fyookball
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
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April 07, 2015, 07:24:34 AM |
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What it takes to get really stupid volatility is two or more robots, all trying to be faster than the others and programmed in a way that, taken together, generates positive feedback. You see smaller versions of this on Amazon sometimes. A while back two different people came out with 'how to write a compiler' books, and unbeknownst to each other, they both used dynamic-pricing bots. One guy had one that kept setting his price $4 below the other guy's, and the other guy had one that kept setting his price $6 over the first guy's. Before the end of the first day, they were (both) priced a bit over US$14000. Not generating many sales at that price, but hey, at that price a few would be enough! Anyway, the guys with the robot-traders fiddle their algorithms six times a day, always trying to outguess each other, and they like to buy as soon as something shows an uptick - which drives the price up so others buy because, hey, uptick, etc. Same thing with selling "at the top" -- if everybody does it, it creates the crash that defines what went before as the "top." They've gotten some experience with what's likely to cause explosions and gotten better at not doing that, but multi-bot interactions with dozens or hundreds of bots will usually contain at least a few sets that generate positive feedback. Depending on how much money the bots in those sets control, you still get things going boom - or crash - every so often. I think that kind of situation would really only happen if the market was so thin that a few bots were the majority of volume. Algorithmic trading makes up the majority of many markets nowadays, but there are enough players and large enough volume that volatility changes are negligible. The price action in the forex world today is indistinguishable from that of a decade ago, despite the proliferation of HFT.
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