[LTC-GLOBAL] The Litecoin Global Virtual Stock Exchange - Public Beta

[Liquid]

just a quick question why is every stock/share i bought from the stock exchange 6 company's in total now significantly lower than what i paid for them ?

[burnside]

just a quick question why is every stock/share i bought from the stock exchange 6 company's in total now significantly lower than what i paid for them ?

Lots of factors.  I suspect it's because:

- GLBSE blew up.
    - Bunch of the funds were dealing in GLBSE assets.
    - Confidence in all the exchanges is down.
- LTC is up.  Since LTC is up, all the companies that are valued in currencies other than LTC would naturally drop in LTC price.
- LTC mining difficulty is up.  As difficulty goes up, LTC Mining stocks would naturally drop in price.

I think that should about sum it up?

Cheers.

[killerstorm]

Unless company isn't fully correlated with LTC its share price is going to go down when LTC goes up. To be fully correlated company needs to hold LTC and LTC-denominated debt with coupon fixed in LTC.

Otherwise it's hard to explain why value per share will go up.

Even for companies like LTC-GAMING and LTC-CHARTS which in theory deal only with LTC: why would we expect their revenue to rise?

Same thing happens on "traditional" exchanges: if dollar goes up stock market goes down, and vice versa.

[Liquid]

O right thanks

so will it ever go up in value lol, or should i sell now ?

[killerstorm]

1. If LTC exchange rate will drop share prices are expected to go up.

2. It looks like market is fairly irrational now, you might wait a bit till it gets more rational.

It's possible that LTC exchange rate hike caused sell-off, considerable amount of litecoins have left exchange and what's left simply cannot keep asset prices reasonable. But if situation stabilizes you might see share prices recovering.

[Liquid]

Wait out the storm then 

Thanks bro

[Deprived]

There's another issue which may impact some of the securities you're invested in (don't know which you're in, so can't say for sure).

Some securities didn't sell out at IPO and still have an Ask-wall up of unsold shares.  When that happens the price MUST go down - as the unsold IPO shares form a ceiling on the price, so all trade has to occur below IPO price.

Also some of the assets on LTC-GLOBAL don't communicate at all with investors - so even if they're actually doing well it's hard for investors to have any confidence and the price will tend to fall.

[Liquid]

EMIF.LTC-TRADING
ESECURITY-SA
ESECURITY-SA2
LTC-ATF
LTCI
OPCU

[killerstorm]

EMIF.LTC-TRADING -- In theory should be trading at least somewhere around IPO price, 0.50 IIRC. But dude haven't been communicating with us for a couple of weeks. On the bright side, he sent a good dividend on 2012-10-15. It corresponds to about 30% per year.

ESECURITY-SA, ESECURITY-SA2 -- with a current exchange rate issuer should be selling at about 3.3 LTC per bond, and since issuer haven't sold all bonds yet it's unlikely than it will go above 3.3 (assuming current exchange rate). However it is a great bond as long as you don't mind coupon fixed in USD

LTC-ATF -- here issuer forms price himself, and it's backed by calculation, so you might assume it's about right.

LTCI -- it is expected that fair price now is 0.64 (http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,676.msg1983.html#msg1983), but it might recover when other prices will recover (say, up to 1.0) since it just invests in other shares.

OPCU -- it is still doing IPO, don't expect price to go above 0.9 anytime soon. If you want to go out put an ask at 0.899, for example.

[Deprived]

EMIF.LTC-TRADING -- In theory should be trading at least somewhere around IPO price, 0.50 IIRC. But dude haven't been communicating with us for a couple of weeks. On the bright side, he sent a good dividend on 2012-10-15. It corresponds to about 30% per year.

ESECURITY-SA, ESECURITY-SA2 -- with a current exchange rate issuer should be selling at about 3.3 LTC per bond, and since issuer haven't sold all bonds yet it's unlikely than it will go above 3.3 (assuming current exchange rate). However it is a great bond as long as you don't mind coupon fixed in USD

LTC-ATF -- here issuer forms price himself, and it's backed by calculation, so you might assume it's about right.

LTCI -- it is expected that fair price now is 0.64 (http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,676.msg1983.html#msg1983), but it might recover when other prices will recover (say, up to 1.0) since it just invests in other shares.

OPCU -- it is still doing IPO, don't expect price to go above 0.9 anytime soon. If you want to go out put an ask at 0.899, for example.

Yeah sounds about right.

EMIF - issuer got cold feet about doing what he originally intended to do after one week of trading.  He announced he would diverisy operations and give more details soon - but never did.  He's been paying dividends each week which suggests he hasn't made a loss (as, per his contract, he shouldn't pay dividends in a losing week) but the fear (to me) is that he's in over his head and paying out dividedns to keep people quiet while he tries to work out what to do next.

ESECURITIES - their income is in USD, so any rise in LTC (and there's been a big one) would tend to devalue them.

LTC-ATF.  I run this one.  The drop is entirely down to the exchange-rate rise - as initially we were mainly investing in BTC-denominated securities on GLBSE.  When the LTC price sky-rocketed, half our assets were frozen on GLBSE so there was no way I could do anything with them.  Whether it'll rise back up or fall down again depends to an extent on what happens with the exchange-rate - if it stays stable then I'd expect to make a profit from trading.  At the moment next difficulty change for LTC is projected to be downward - which SHOULD lead to a fall in LTC price.  But the real bugbear is what will happen when ASICs hit the BTC market and some GPU miners migrate to LTC - there's arguments that can be made for exchange-rate move in either direction then.

LTCI - the linked spreadsheet values everything based on bids.  I'd value its holdings in the .7-.85 range.  Certainly the .64 in the spreadsheet is the bottom of valuation range as thats pretty much what everything could be liquidated for now.  If you look at its investments it's clear a lot of the loss in value is caused directly by the exchange-rate change.  I'll tell you for free that the last transactions on that stock were me buying for my fund at 0.4 and .5 - as that was (and remains) very good value.  I'm not a huge fan of this type of passive investment (where you pay a management fee just for someone else to buy a few shares and then send you most of the dividends) but when it's that obviously underpriced compared to book value I'll happily buy some.

OPCU : still in IPO as mentioned.  It's not totally clear to me whether the asset issuer is selling his OWN shares in an existing enterprise or raising funds for a new one.  There's no list of current assets - but there IS a list of historical revenue.  Which leads to the fear (as a potential investor) that we may be being asked to provide 100% of the capital for a very small share of the profits.  Note that there's no mention anywhere of how any amount to be dividended would be calculated or what (if any) personal wages would be drawn prior to dividend.  One of the things I immediately look for in any asset is a clear definition of what part of profits go the asset owener and which to the shareholders - that's missing here.

[Liquid]

Thank you for the in-depth info 

[burnside]

Sorry for the extended absence.  Been busy on a bunch of things that I just released this evening:

- Several security improvements.
  - Now that it's done I can advertise that the litecoind process (and thus the wallet) has officially moved to a dedicated backend machine.
  - In addition, the litecoind process on the backend machine has been custom compiled to reduce rpc exposure and make a site-wide hack less painful.
  - Better separation of litecoinglobal.com and ltc.kattare.com, though there is still progress to be made here.  (need more servers!)
- Better exception handling.  I was catching mysql exceptions but not properly catching all litecoind exceptions.  This should be vastly improved now.
- Multiple coin support added to the codebase.  I'm still finding gotcha's every here and there, but the codebase is now 99% ready for the BTC release of the site.
- New fields on the securities.  Essentially everything you need to present a full and complete business plan.  I don't expect everyone to use them, but I can guarantee the moderators will like your security better if you do.
- New moderation options.
  - Moderators can now attach a publicly visible comment to their votes.
  - And they also have the option of displaying their login name next to their comment.
  - The publicly visible comments currently show up above the contract, though that may be changed later.
- New Terms of Service on registration and asset creation.  Trying to keep it real, crossing the t's and dotting the i's.  The legalese has received a major revamp to protect everyone involved.  I don't expect everyone to like it, but at least the way it's setup now, it should be legal to use the site in most global jurisdictions.

I think that about sums it up.  I have a bunch more work to do to release the BTC version of the site, but once the BTC version has been released, I will start implementing some of the great suggestions that have been posted in the last week or so.

As always, let me know if you find something broken.  With as many changes as I've made, there's bound to be something I've missed.

Cheers.

[burnside]

Bunch of improvements related to orders:

- Improved the order canceling function.
      - It had some flaws where sometimes it wasn't canceling some orders it should for NSF.
      - I improved the email you receive when a bid order is canceled.  It should now tell you exactly what order (qty@amt) got canceled.
- Improved the 'My Orders' table on the securities page.  It now shows reserved currency and shares based on your current orders.
- Improved the 'My Orders' tab on the portfolio page.  It now shows reserved currency and shares based on your current orders.

Cheers.

[420]

whats the differences from the defunct bitcoin stock exchange

[burnside]

whats the differences from the defunct bitcoin stock exchange

https://www.litecoinglobal.com/faq

The biggest difference is that we are not trying to pretend we're the NYSE, the NASDAQ, etc.  We realize that such an operation trying to be "legit" and fully registered / legal, is way beyond the scope of our resources.

This will likely change how a lot of people look at it, but we don't really have much choice.  The biggest issue is whether or not the asset issuers will be taken seriously.  I think that some will and some will not, much like the GLBSE.  However, we hope to provide better tools for being able to tell the difference.  Starting with being able to put up a prospectus/business plan!

The other factor of course is that even if an asset issuer went defunct on the GLBSE, it's not like you had much recourse... So in practice, I don't think as much has changed as you would think.

Cheers.

[EskimoBob]

whats the differences from the defunct bitcoin stock exchange

https://www.litecoinglobal.com/faq

The biggest difference is that we are not trying to pretend we're the NYSE, the NASDAQ, etc.  We realize that such an operation trying to be "legit" and fully registered / legal, is way beyond the scope of our resources.

This will likely change how a lot of people look at it, but we don't really have much choice.  The biggest issue is whether or not the asset issuers will be taken seriously.  I think that some will and some will not, much like the GLBSE.  However, we hope to provide better tools for being able to tell the difference.  Starting with being able to put up a prospectus/business plan!

The other factor of course is that even if an asset issuer went defunct on the GLBSE, it's not like you had much recourse... So in practice, I don't think as much has changed as you would think.
Cheers.

What happens, if some goons from the 3 letter agencies are going to call you up and say: Close it down now or we will drag your ass to a prison (for violating a law X that someone dreamed up over 80 some year ago and is obviously served well all the rich fat fucks for generations)
I am still not sure that this really happened to GLBSE, but down they went and lots of honest people got fraked.
 

[burnside]

whats the differences from the defunct bitcoin stock exchange

https://www.litecoinglobal.com/faq

The biggest difference is that we are not trying to pretend we're the NYSE, the NASDAQ, etc.  We realize that such an operation trying to be "legit" and fully registered / legal, is way beyond the scope of our resources.

This will likely change how a lot of people look at it, but we don't really have much choice.  The biggest issue is whether or not the asset issuers will be taken seriously.  I think that some will and some will not, much like the GLBSE.  However, we hope to provide better tools for being able to tell the difference.  Starting with being able to put up a prospectus/business plan!

The other factor of course is that even if an asset issuer went defunct on the GLBSE, it's not like you had much recourse... So in practice, I don't think as much has changed as you would think.
Cheers.

What happens, if some goons from the 3 letter agencies are going to call you up and say: Close it down now or we will drag your ass to a prison (for violating a law X that someone dreamed up over 80 some year ago and is obviously served well all the rich fat fucks for generations)
I am still not sure that this really happened to GLBSE, but down they went and lots of honest people got fraked.
  

Right now:  I'd probably stop working on it and let them have their way.  For me it's not worth the risk.  However, all the assets could go on.  I just wrapped up a feature today where every 12 hours a copy of the current shareholder list gets emailed to asset issuers.

Down the road:  I plan to diversify the operation so that it doesn't depend on me.  The company itself is a Cook Islands company.  The next iteration will be hosted in Panama. (already have boxes there with the BTC site setup on them)  I'm optimistic that once it's all setup we can find a few major investors such that I can offload the corporate officer positions and major shareholder positions so that it's doesn't depend on me to survive.

Cheers.

[xchrix]

just a question about dividends:
i have scheduled a dividend payment of LTC-CHARTS for 2012-11-03 12:00 at maybe 11:45 o clock but it wasnt triggered till now..

[burnside]

just a question about dividends:
i have scheduled a dividend payment of LTC-CHARTS for 2012-11-03 12:00 at maybe 11:45 o clock but it wasnt triggered till now..

How far off from your scheduled time was it?  I think the scheduled job (via cron) checks for new dividends once every 10 minutes.

I see this on your post: "Posted on: November 03, 2012, 11:49:10 AM", so saying it was scheduled for 11:45 and having you post that it just ran at 11:49 I don't think it was off by too far? 

On the other hand, if you scheduled it hours beforehand, there is an issue where the time picker works by the timezone you have set in the accounts page.  If you do not set it in the accounts page, it defaults to GMT.  Which means that if you go with the default, and you are not in a GMT timezone, then the times you pick may not be what you intended. 

Some day I'll try to auto-determine time zones by the user's browser time, but that's a ways off... lots of higher priorities. 

Hope that makes sense of things!

Cheers.

[xchrix]

thank you that makes sense!
is it possible to make a "pay now" checkbox when entering a dividend?