NO Miracles in Koran

[Spendulus]

The Quran (Koran, the book of Islam) does not contains scientific knowledge that could not have been known 1400 years ago.

It does not contain miracles.

The Moon was not split and rejoined.

Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

[Muhammed Zakir]

=snip=
Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck!

[pedrog]

=snip=
Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck!

It's mot hate, it's reality, although reality usually 'offends' religious people...

[abyrnes81]

The Quran (Koran, the book of Islam) does not contains scientific knowledge that could not have been known 1400 years ago.

It does not contain miracles.

The Moon was not split and rejoined.

Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

This,

I don't think the book of islam contains any miracles, but his poetry is very awesome! But as you told, with a little bit of "brain" we can explain everything.

[Wilikon]

=snip=
Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck!

[BADecker]

Islam, the religion of science fiction. Oh wait. Science, itself, is the religion of science fiction. Which one is the copycat?

[redsn0w]

In these days a lot of Islam's related thread, and I want only to say a couple of things (related with the Quran):

- How many version of that "book" are around the world? Not "style or graphic" version.
- How many version of Bible is present at the moment? And if we pick a bible of 60-70 years ago, is it the same ( same words) of the actual?

I don't think this time I am a straw man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) just want to share with you my personal opinion. Thanks for the attention.

Yes, the Quran does not contain any miracles.

[BADecker]

=snip=
Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck!

I think that you and your buddies hacked everybody's locations through their ISPs, and you are sending out terrorists to destroy all your opponents.

 

[Muhammed Zakir]

[ center][ img]https://i.imgur.com/wtnyLpk.gif[/img][/center]
[ center][ img]https://i.imgur.com/7SoqC3g.png[/img][/center]

Thanks for pictorial representation, friend!

I think that you and your buddies hacked everybody's locations through their ISPs, and you are sending out terrorists to destroy all your opponents.

 

Yeah. theymos put a backdoor so that terrorists like me can access IP addresses. I have sent a vehicle with a bomb to Wilikon. It was hard to find an exact car he sent me. I have paid the debt with a small tip. Confirm here if you receive it.

[BADecker]

[ center][ img]https://i.imgur.com/wtnyLpk.gif[/img][/center]
[ center][ img]https://i.imgur.com/7SoqC3g.png[/img][/center]

Thanks for pictorial representation, friend!

I think that you and your buddies hacked everybody's locations through their ISPs, and you are sending out terrorists to destroy all your opponents.

 

Yeah. theymos put a backdoor so that terrorists like me can access IP addresses. I have sent a vehicle with a bomb to Wilikon. It was hard to find an exact car he sent me. I have paid the debt with a small tip. Confirm here if you receive it.

Wow! Didn't think you'd ever admit it.   

[Spendulus]

=snip=
Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck!

I think what I am saying is an important point, so correct me if I am wrong.

To be a devout Muslim one does NOT have to believe in miracles.

To be a devout Christian one DOES have to believe in miracles.

True or false?  Badecker?

[Muhammed Zakir]

I think what I am saying is an important point, so correct me if I am wrong.

To be a devout Muslim one does NOT have to believe in miracles.

To be a devout Christian one DOES have to believe in miracles.

True or false?  Badecker?

My mistake, false. Devout muslim needs to believe in Miracles.

[BADecker]

=snip=
Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck!

I think what I am saying is an important point, so correct me if I am wrong.

To be a devout Muslim one does NOT have to believe in miracles.

To be a devout Christian one DOES have to believe in miracles.

True or false?  Badecker?

It is only logical to conclude that devout people of any religion need to believe what their religious books say. This means that they must believe in miracles if their religious books speak about miracles.

The interesting thing is that among the miracles of the Bible are a lot of foretelling of the future. Things predicted in the Bible happened or didn't happen depending on the strength of the prophet. There are Bible predictions that haven't happened yet; they are for the future. The predictions that Jesus made happened as far as they go. The ones that haven't happened yet will happen.

The Quran makes no direct predictions like the Bible. There is far less strength in the Quran than the Bible.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Qur'an make predictions about the end of the world. The war and many more.

[Spendulus]

I think what I am saying is an important point, so correct me if I am wrong.

To be a devout Muslim one does NOT have to believe in miracles.

To be a devout Christian one DOES have to believe in miracles.

True or false?  Badecker?

My mistake, false. Devout muslim needs to believe in Miracles.

What miracles does one have to believe?

Just the end of world stuff?

[r3wt]

Proverbs 3:5-6
"Confide in God with all thy heart, and lean not unto thine own intelligence;
in all thy ways acknowledge him, and he will make plain thy paths."

[Spendulus]

Proverbs 3:5-6
"Confide in God with all thy heart, and lean not unto thine own intelligence;
in all thy ways acknowledge him, and he will make plain thy paths."

Generally speaking, in Christianity and perhaps in Judeo-christian culture, a religious "prophecy" is not considered a "miracle."

Help me out a bit with this because as an Athiest I view these concepts as total bullshit, and that makes it difficult to separate the various flavors.

In Islam, are alleged "prophecies" considered "miracles?"

[Muhammed Zakir]

What miracles does one have to believe?

Just the end of world stuff?

Everything. AFAIK If they can't see it logical, they don't want to believe it but they shouldn't spread misunderstanding/misinterpretation to backup their claims.

"End of the world" is one of the many predictions.

Help me out a bit with this because as an Athiest I view these concepts as total bullshit, and that makes it difficult to separate the various flavors.

It is not only you, all humans are like that. Once we carve something on heart/mind, it is hard to change it. I too see somethings in that way.

In Islam, are alleged "prophecies" considered "miracles?"

It's debatable because for some it is miracles and for some it is just prophecies. I will have to look a little more on this. I will try to reply ASAP.

Meanwhile, here are some of the fulfilled prophecies:

One of the more general prophecies is that the Qur'an predicts its own preservation and endurance. The Qur'an states that the book itself will survive as a valid source and that the religion of Islam will last, even dominate, because of this. Muslim scholars argue that today's Qur'an is the same Qur'an originally compiled by Muhammad. The following passages from the Qur'an state these prophecies:

“We have, without doubt, Sent down the Message; And We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption)” (15:9).

“It is He Who has sent His Apostle with Guidance And the Religion of Truth, That he may proclaim it Over all religion, Even though the Pagans May detest (it)” (61:9).

Another interpretation of the Qur'an is that it predicted the defeat of the Persians by the Romans. Before the prophecy, at the Battle of Antioch, in 613 C.E., the Persians defeated the Romans. Muslims were upset by this defeat because they felt more connected to Rome, a Christian empire, than to Persia, a Zoroastrian one. A few years afterwards, the following verse was revealed in the Qur'an: "The Roman Empire Has been defeated – In a land close by; But they, (even) after (This) defeat of theirs, Will soon be victorious – Within a few years. With God is the Decision, In the Past And in the Future: On that Day shall The Believers rejoice” (30:2-4). By 627 C.E., the Romans had successfully defeated the Persians, resulting in much celebration by Muslims and fulfilling the prophecy of the Qur'an.

## Another prophecy of the Qur'an that Muslims might argue has been fulfilled is the ease with which the book can be memorized. Because this is not a factual prophecy but based, rather, on opinion, it cannot truly be proven. However, Muslims do consider reciting or reading the Qur'an to be holy and a way to receive blessings, so it is extremely common for Muslims to memorize a large number of Qur'anic verses. The fact that this is possible and has been done by scholars and children alike, does suggest a certain quality of the Qur'an that makes it easily memorable. The Qur'an’s “rhythmic style and eloquent expression” have been cited as aids in verbatim memorization. The following verse from the Qur'an is one example of the prophecy that the Qur'an will be easily memorized by future readers: “And We have indeed Made the Qur-an easy to understand and remember: Then is there any that Will receive admonition?” (54:17) ##

Another prophecy, according to the Qur'an, may have predicted the preservation of the Pharaoh of the Exodus's body. In the Qur'an, God says to the Pharaoh: "This day shall We save thee In thy body, that thou Mayest be a Sign to those Who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind Are heedless of Our Signs!" The body of the Pharaoh, who was argued to be either Ramesses II or his son Merneptah, was thought to be lost at sea until the mummies of both were discovered in the 19th century. They are on display today in Cairo's Egyptian Museum; thus, it is argued that the prophecy was fulfilled.

What I put in "##" is debatable too. Unlike most other religious books, Qur'an is easy to remember. So it can also be considered as a prophecy.

[Spendulus]

What miracles does one have to believe?

Just the end of world stuff?

Everything. AFAIK If they can't see it logical, they don't want to believe it but they shouldn't spread misunderstanding/misinterpretation to backup their claims.

"End of the world" is one of the many predictions.

Help me out a bit with this because as an Athiest I view these concepts as total bullshit, and that makes it difficult to separate the various flavors.

It is not only you, all humans are like that. Once we carve something on heart/mind, it is hard to change it. I too see somethings in that way.

In Islam, are alleged "prophecies" considered "miracles?"

It's debatable because for some it is miracles and for some it is just prophecies. I will have to look a little more on this. I will try to reply ASAP.
....

Now that's total bullshit.  If you don't even know what's a miracle and what's not, probably better to not act knowledgeable about them.  Wouldn't you agree?

[alani123]

What's remarkable here, is that Wilikon's meme-making skills have vastly improved. Keep going Wilikon, maybe one day you'll become a memelord.