Africa May Leapfrog Traditional Banking

[hua_hui]

I don't think they can leapfrog traditional banking. If they can't access the banking, how can they buy  or cash out bitcoin through the exchanges, which accept fiat money deposits for them to trade or transfer fiat money to your bank account for withdrawal?

[gentlemand]

I don't think they can leapfrog traditional banking. If they can't access the banking, how can they buy  or cash out bitcoin through the exchanges, which accept fiat money deposits for them to trade or transfer fiat money to your bank account for withdrawal?

Swap it for M Pesa? There's already a parallel economy operating with that. BTC would run alongside it. There could be a huge volume of bitcoin exchange and cashing in and out without any of it ever touching a bank.

The question is whether it would be relevant to the average M Pesa user. Probably not that much in country, but there would be international applications.

[M83]

I don't think they can leapfrog traditional banking. If they can't access the banking, how can they buy  or cash out bitcoin through the exchanges, which accept fiat money deposits for them to trade or transfer fiat money to your bank account for withdrawal?

Well that's where bitcoin comes in. They buy bitcoin with regular cash or get paid it for work or sent from their families via the remittance market. There will be independent businesses that will pop up like mpesa and others than will exchange coins for cash when needed.

[bryant.coleman]

When the M-Pesa / Kipochi partnership was first launched, there were lots of interest, and it seemed that BTC will capture quite a lot of market share. But now it seems that things have cooled down a bit.

Unless African population is educated to use internet & smart phone, bitcoin has no future over there.

That is not necessary. They don't need to know these skills to use BTC. For example, currently a lot of African migrants use Western Union to transfer their remittances. That doesn't mean that all of them know the basics of the money transfer system. All they need to know is how to deposit cash at M-Pesa branches. M-Pesa will convert this cash to BTC and send them to Africa. In Africa, M-Pesa will convert this BTC back to cash and give it to the recipient.

[Hazir]

When the M-Pesa / Kipochi partnership was first launched, there were lots of interest, and it seemed that BTC will capture quite a lot of market share. But now it seems that things have cooled down a bit.

Unless African population is educated to use internet & smart phone, bitcoin has no future over there.

That is not necessary. They don't need to know these skills to use BTC. For example, currently a lot of African migrants use Western Union to transfer their remittances. That doesn't mean that all of them know the basics of the money transfer system. All they need to know is how to deposit cash at M-Pesa branches. M-Pesa will convert this cash to BTC and send them to Africa. In Africa, M-Pesa will convert this BTC back to cash and give it to the recipient.

It sound really simple and affordable. But I remember some threads like this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897306.0 And I wonder if they in Africa really ready for bitcoin if they have more pressure concerns right now? I would like them to be able to reach out and embrace cryptocurrency but I feel that it is indeed to early for some African countries.

[QuestionAuthority]

Africa needs to leapfrog a way to grow enough food eat instead of having 30 countries supplement their diets. While they're at it maybe they can figure out how to grow some birth control so they won't need so much food. Bitcoin would be great for them to store their fifteen cents of disposible income per month. 

[ensurance982]

Africa may leapfrog...

That would be cool, except most Africans are still living in huts and flinging shit at each other.

Wow that's a fairly ignorant statement, I take it you're trolling?


http://www.zdnet.com/article/africa-has-more-mobile-phone-users-than-the-us-or-eu/

Exactly, Bitcoins can be transferred by transferring information. Bitcoins are nothing else, basically, i.e. transferring them takes nothing but transferring certain information. Mobile phones are a perfect fit for that.

[Q7]

Other than having everything including all basic daily necessities priced in bitcoin, we also have to consider accessibility to internet connection. That generally means coverage in every areas. Apart from that, prices of smartphone also need to be in the range where it is affordable by everyone. Maybe in years to come, when technology advances and production of chips become cheaper, that will be possible.

[bryant.coleman]

It sound really simple and affordable. But I remember some threads like this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897306.0 And I wonder if they in Africa really ready for bitcoin if they have more pressure concerns right now? I would like them to be able to reach out and embrace cryptocurrency but I feel that it is indeed to early for some African countries.

There is a real requirement of Bitcoin in the African continent. African migrants spend anything from 10% to 15% as commission to transfer their remittance payments. If you take in to account the currency conversion charges as well, then the total fee can be as high as 20%. This is daylight robbery. We need to stop this as quickly as possible, and therefore we should proceed without wasting anymore time.

[Amph]

When the M-Pesa / Kipochi partnership was first launched, there were lots of interest, and it seemed that BTC will capture quite a lot of market share. But now it seems that things have cooled down a bit.

Unless African population is educated to use internet & smart phone, bitcoin has no future over there.

I think you're being pretty ignorant here. Africa is a massive continent and contrary to popular belief they don't all live in mud huts with no electricity. Even many impoverished African countries have a mobile phone but don't and can't have a bank account so bitcoin could really flourish over there. The internet isn't as scare as you might think either and is being implemented there at an astonishing rate.

not all of them(all country in africa) are so advanced and are confortable to use technology device, this is true for the sud africa, nord africa on the other hand is getting better, and they have nothing to envy to europe or usa(i have friend that live there, so i know a bit about it)

[The Chainmaker]

Africa will go straight to smart phones, skipping desktops and ethernet.

Africa will go straight to renewable energy, skipping coal and nuclear.  

Africa will go straight to crypto, skipping traditional banking altogether.  

Africa is going to be pretty awesome in 30 years.  All the newest with none of the baggage.

[bryant.coleman]

not all of them(all country in africa) are so advanced and are confortable to use technology device, this is true for the sud africa, nor africa on the other hand is getting better, and they have nothing to envy to europe or usa(i have friend that live there, so i know a bit about it)

Some 90% of the Africans live in poverty. But at the same time, there is a large community of the African nouveau riche, comprising of businessmen and migrants who have found jobs in the EU and North America. There are tens, if not hundreds of millions of people who use smartphones in the African continent. It will be foolish to ignore this large group.

[jjacob]

I don't think they can leapfrog traditional banking. If they can't access the banking, how can they buy  or cash out bitcoin through the exchanges, which accept fiat money deposits for them to trade or transfer fiat money to your bank account for withdrawal?

You don't need exchanges. You could have remittances coming in and then bitcoin circulating through the sale of goods and services

[shogdite]

Africa needs to leapfrog a way to grow enough food eat instead of having 30 countries supplement their diets. While they're at it maybe they can figure out how to grow some birth control so they won't need so much food. Bitcoin would be great for them to store their fifteen cents of disposible income per month. 

Africa already grows enough food according to the World Bank:  http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/29/africa-can-feed-itself

In a new report, "Africa Can Help Feed Africa", the World Bank looks at how the continent can prevent food shortages and unlock its massive agricultural potential. The general recommendations might be predictable for the institution known for its support of neoliberal policy, but they offer key recommendations to achieving food sustainability. The report looks at how opening up cross-border trade will increase Africa's potential food production, increase food security by improving access to food, and raise returns for small-scale farmers.

It begins with the basic premise that regions have natural food surpluses in certain staples and deficits in others; the key is to maximise output and get the food to where it's needed. Attempts at national self-sufficiency haven't worked and the effects of climate change will only make production more volatile, says the report. "Removing barriers to regional trade presents benefits to farmers, consumers and governments." Farmers will make more money from meeting the rising demand; consumers get cheaper access to food and benefits such as jobs from a growing agricultural sector; governments can better deal with food security.

[cbeast]

There is no unifying factor for the nations of Africa. Bitcoin could be their form of revolution, but most likely they will sell all their wealth to China.

[Manic Street Preacher]

not all of them(all country in africa) are so advanced and are confortable to use technology device, this is true for the sud africa, nor africa on the other hand is getting better, and they have nothing to envy to europe or usa(i have friend that live there, so i know a bit about it)

Some 90% of the Africans live in poverty. But at the same time, there is a large community of the African nouveau riche, comprising of businessmen and migrants who have found jobs in the EU and North America. There are tens, if not hundreds of millions of people who use smartphones in the African continent. It will be foolish to ignore this large group.

90% where are you getting these stats from. Not even close according to this http://www.our-africa.org/poverty

I don't think they can leapfrog traditional banking. If they can't access the banking, how can they buy  or cash out bitcoin through the exchanges, which accept fiat money deposits for them to trade or transfer fiat money to your bank account for withdrawal?

You don't need exchanges. You could have remittances coming in and then bitcoin circulating through the sale of goods and services

People are going to need a place to exchange coins for cash. They're not just going to want to barter for food or goods.

[Lauda]

Some 90% of the Africans live in poverty. But at the same time, there is a large community of the African nouveau riche, comprising of businessmen and migrants who have found jobs in the EU and North America. There are tens, if not hundreds of millions of people who use smartphones in the African continent. It will be foolish to ignore this large group.

90% where are you getting these stats from. Not even close according to this http://www.our-africa.org/poverty

You don't need exchanges. You could have remittances coming in and then bitcoin circulating through the sale of goods and services

People are going to need a place to exchange coins for cash. They're not just going to want to barter for food or goods.

I guess he's pulling them out of a magic hat. People usually do that on the internet. To get a desirable effect on Africa we need someone powerful to take an initiative. We can discuss all we want here, but I doubt that anyone who is participating can do anything about it.
If Africa jumped directly towards Bitcoin, then both would benefits greatly.

[BillyBobZorton]

Ideally you wouldn't need exchanges since you should directly exchange your BTC for whatever you offering, but the future is global, and being able to export and import is what makes a country rise in the long term.

[QuestionAuthority]

Africa needs to leapfrog a way to grow enough food eat instead of having 30 countries supplement their diets. While they're at it maybe they can figure out how to grow some birth control so they won't need so much food. Bitcoin would be great for them to store their fifteen cents of disposible income per month. 

Africa already grows enough food according to the World Bank:  http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/29/africa-can-feed-itself

In a new report, "Africa Can Help Feed Africa", the World Bank looks at how the continent can prevent food shortages and unlock its massive agricultural potential. The general recommendations might be predictable for the institution known for its support of neoliberal policy, but they offer key recommendations to achieving food sustainability. The report looks at how opening up cross-border trade will increase Africa's potential food production, increase food security by improving access to food, and raise returns for small-scale farmers.

It begins with the basic premise that regions have natural food surpluses in certain staples and deficits in others; the key is to maximise output and get the food to where it's needed. Attempts at national self-sufficiency haven't worked and the effects of climate change will only make production more volatile, says the report. "Removing barriers to regional trade presents benefits to farmers, consumers and governments." Farmers will make more money from meeting the rising demand; consumers get cheaper access to food and benefits such as jobs from a growing agricultural sector; governments can better deal with food security.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. They can save themselves but won't.

Giving alms to Africa remains one of the biggest ideas of our time -- millions march for it, governments are judged by it, celebrities proselytize the need for it. Calls for more aid to Africa are growing louder, with advocates pushing for doubling the roughly $50 billion of international assistance that already goes to Africa each year.

Yet evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that aid to Africa has made the poor poorer, and the growth slower. The insidious aid culture has left African countries more debt-laden, more inflation-prone, more vulnerable to the vagaries of the currency markets and more unattractive to higher-quality investment. It's increased the risk of civil conflict and unrest (the fact that over 60% of sub-Saharan Africa's population is under the age of 24 with few economic prospects is a cause for worry). Aid is an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster.

Over the past 60 years at least $1 trillion of development-related aid has been transferred from rich countries to Africa. Yet real per-capita income today is lower than it was in the 1970s, and more than 50% of the population -- over 350 million people -- live on less than a dollar a day, a figure that has nearly doubled in two decades.

In a similar vein has been the approach to food aid, which historically has done little to support African farmers. Under the auspices of the U.S. Food for Peace program, each year millions of dollars are used to buy American-grown food that has to then be shipped across oceans. One wonders how a system of flooding foreign markets with American food, which puts local farmers out of business, actually helps better Africa. A better strategy would be to use aid money to buy food from farmers within the country, and then distribute that food to the local citizens in need.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123758895999200083

The most obvious criticism of aid is its links to rampant corruption. Aid flows destined to help the average African end up supporting bloated bureaucracies in the form of the poor-country governments and donor-funded non-governmental organizations.

In Zaire -- known today as the Democratic Republic of Congo -- Irwin Blumenthal (whom the IMF had appointed to a post in the country's central bank) warned in 1978 that the system was so corrupt that there was "no (repeat, no) prospect for Zaire's creditors to get their money back." Still, the IMF soon gave the country the largest loan it had ever given an African nation. According to corruption watchdog agency Transparency International, Mobutu Sese Seko, Zaire's president from 1965 to 1997, is reputed to have stolen at least $5 billion from the country.

It's scarcely better today. A month ago, Malawi's former President Bakili Muluzi was charged with embezzling aid money worth $12 million. Zambia's former President Frederick Chiluba (a development darling during his 1991 to 2001 tenure) remains embroiled in a court case that has revealed millions of dollars frittered away from health, education and infrastructure toward his personal cash dispenser. Yet the aid keeps on coming.
 

You need to get these guys using Bitcoin. The corrupt politicians are the only ones on the continent that have any money to buy Bitcoins.

[coinpr0n]

Education is always better than dumbed-down services. Bitcoin's killer apps for Africa may (should?) come from Africa or Africans.