PPCoin is NOT a decentralized cryptocurrency

[Greedi]

In all fairness, the authors of PPCoin admit it is currently not fully decentralized, but they wish to remove these "broadcasted checkpoints" in a future software update - it is used for bootstrapping the coin.

I can't say that I support the idea myself, but it doesn't smell like yet another SolidCoin to me, just leaves a bad taste.

It seems to me that in order for a coin to become soiledcoin, the coin's dev must pick a fight with an uber-hacker.

Pretty  much this.

And this.

Most the complaints about PPC are from smoothie, and dice/greedi. All well known LTC speculators.  

BITCH!, i told you to get me beers!, wtf is up with up.. i TOLD you on IRC to get my beers, you KNOW your my lttle BITCH!!

[1714755100]

1714755100

[ElectricMucus]

The PPCoin proof of stake system does exactly what it is supposed to do:

Amplifying the early adopter benefit to the point where it becomes useless for any other useage except pump & dump.

+1...now Pump and dump that shit...lol...oh wait....no just dump lol

meh I think PPcoin has one last hickup in it, look at solidcoinII there was a short but very profitable climax for some sharky investors.

[DiCE1904]

where is the graph of PPC worth....where you can see that it was already pumped and dumped


ElectricMucus could be right, there still might be another one left in it.



someone linked it:   http://www.proofofstake.com/

pump and dump much?

[Greedi]

In all fairness, the authors of PPCoin admit it is currently not fully decentralized, but they wish to remove these "broadcasted checkpoints" in a future software update - it is used for bootstrapping the coin.

I can't say that I support the idea myself, but it doesn't smell like yet another SolidCoin to me, just leaves a bad taste.

It seems to me that in order for a coin to become soiledcoin, the coin's dev must pick a fight with an uber-hacker.

Pretty  much this.

And this.

Most the complaints about PPC are from smoothie, and dice/greedi. All well known LTC speculators. 

BITCH!, i told you to get me beers!, wtf is up with up.. i TOLD you on IRC to get my beers, you KNOW your my lttle BITCH!!

anwser me on IRC bitch, or are you to bitched to do that?

[AndyRossy]

The PPCoin proof of stake system does exactly what it is supposed to do:

Amplifying the early adopter benefit to the point where it becomes useless for any other useage except pump & dump. If you have lots of cash and think you can corner the market you can probably get quite a bit of profit by doing it.

Not really, have a look at the charts on http://www.proofofstake.com

I think compared to other currencies, PPC has the most valid argument for not being this pump/dump currency due to it's innovative minting vs difficulty construct.  Could you explain why it may the opposite?

where is the graph of PPC worth....where you can see that it was already pumped and dumped


ElectricMucus could be right, there still might be another one left in it.

No graph shows this, unless you can link me to one? have a look at the ltc ones at ltc-charts - it's a regular cycle if you check the trade volumes.  

[smoothie]

The PPCoin proof of stake system does exactly what it is supposed to do:

Amplifying the early adopter benefit to the point where it becomes useless for any other useage except pump & dump. If you have lots of cash and think you can corner the market you can probably get quite a bit of profit by doing it.

Not really, have a look at the charts on http://www.proofofstake.com

I think compared to other currencies, PPC has the most valid argument for not being this pump/dump currency due to it's innovative minting vs difficulty construct.  Could you explain why it may the opposite?

where is the graph of PPC worth....where you can see that it was already pumped and dumped


ElectricMucus could be right, there still might be another one left in it.

No graph shows this, unless you can link me to one? have a look at the ltc ones at ltc-charts - it's a regular cycle if you check the trade volumes.  

1000% increase and then 1000% decrease. How the fuck is it not PUMP and DUMP?

Clearly it is!

[Greedi]

The PPCoin proof of stake system does exactly what it is supposed to do:

Amplifying the early adopter benefit to the point where it becomes useless for any other useage except pump & dump. If you have lots of cash and think you can corner the market you can probably get quite a bit of profit by doing it.

Not really, have a look at the charts on http://www.proofofstake.com

I think compared to other currencies, PPC has the most valid argument for not being this pump/dump currency due to it's innovative minting vs difficulty construct.  Could you explain why it may the opposite?

where is the graph of PPC worth....where you can see that it was already pumped and dumped


ElectricMucus could be right, there still might be another one left in it.

No graph shows this, unless you can link me to one? have a look at the ltc ones at ltc-charts - it's a regular cycle if you check the trade volumes.  

ANSWAR ME BITCH!!!!

[AndyRossy]

In all fairness, the authors of PPCoin admit it is currently not fully decentralized, but they wish to remove these "broadcasted checkpoints" in a future software update - it is used for bootstrapping the coin.

I can't say that I support the idea myself, but it doesn't smell like yet another SolidCoin to me, just leaves a bad taste.

It seems to me that in order for a coin to become soiledcoin, the coin's dev must pick a fight with an uber-hacker.

Pretty  much this.

And this.

Most the complaints about PPC are from smoothie, and dice/greedi. All well known LTC speculators. 

BITCH!, i told you to get me beers!, wtf is up with up.. i TOLD you on IRC to get my beers, you KNOW your my lttle BITCH!!

anwser me on IRC bitch, or are you to bitched to do that?

19:55 -!- Greedi [~Host@unaffiliated/greedi] has joined #ppcoin
19:55 < Greedi> andyrossy, you are my little bitch, now.. go get me some beers!!
19:56 -!- DiCE1904 [~Host@70.114.176.253] has joined #ppcoin
19:57 < Greedi> andyrossy?, bitch.. GET ME MY BEERS!
20:01 < Greedi> andyrossy, i said, GET ME FUCKING BEERS BITCH!
 [20:31] [andyrossy(+i)] [9:#ppcoin(+cgnt)] [Act: 2,3,4,5,6,8,12,13,16,17,18,19,20,22]
[#ppcoin]

If you and Dice have anything to say, say it here. I know you're upset that I've called LTC out for it's pump/dump mechanic, as have amny others, and shown your LTC scam here, but no need to get childish.

[ElectricMucus]

The PPCoin proof of stake system does exactly what it is supposed to do:

Amplifying the early adopter benefit to the point where it becomes useless for any other useage except pump & dump. If you have lots of cash and think you can corner the market you can probably get quite a bit of profit by doing it.

Not really, have a look at the charts on http://www.proofofstake.com

I think compared to other currencies, PPC has the most valid argument for not being this pump/dump currency due to it's innovative minting vs difficulty construct.  Could you explain why it may the opposite?
 me to one? have a look at the ltc ones at ltc-charts - it's a regular cycle if you check the trade volumes.  

hmmn it goes like this

-) get PPC
-) collect proof of stake reward
-) ?????
-) profit

[The Koolio]

ahh fuck off andyrossy u lil bitch

[Este Nuno]

[/quote]

Most the complaints about PPC are from smoothie, and dice/greedi. All well known LTC speculators.  

[/quote]

The thing is, at this point Litecoin actually looks like a credible alternative currency to use along side Bitcoin. It's similar enough that people don't really have to think about it too much, and it has the added benefit of faster confirmations.

And I say this currently owning 0 Litecoins. But I think there is a demand, and probably a growing demand, for a reasonable alternative/complimentary currency to Bitcoin.

The onus is on PPCoin supporters to demonstrate why they think it is a superior choice. Because at this point Litecoin doesn't look like it's going anywhere. And all the criticism towards PPCoin does not seem too out of line from an outside perspective.

[AndyRossy]

The thing is, at this point Litecoin actually looks like a credible alternative currency to use along side Bitcoin. It's similar enough that people don't really have to think about it too much, and it has the added benefit of faster confirmations.

And I say this currently owning 0 Litecoins. But I think there is a demand, and probably a growing demand, for a reasonable alternative/complimentary currency to Bitcoin.

The onus is on PPCoin supporters to demonstrate why they think it is a superior choice. Because at this point Litecoin doesn't look like it's going anywhere. And all the criticism towards PPCoin does not seem too out of line from an outside perspective.

I support LTC, I just think as you said, it doesnt really bring anything new to the table.  The information about PPC can be read on the white papers for those who are curious.

The criticism to PPCoin, at least the numerical / pump dump stuff isnt really credible, but, other criticisms about the PoS have merit- i think the biggest question at the moment is more offline wallets vs PoS generation, but there is a thread actively discussing which way to take this.

[killerstorm]

I don't know why you guys resurrected 2 months old thread...

I support LTC, I just think as you said, it doesnt really bring anything new to the table.  The information about PPC can be read on the white papers for those who are curious.

This is bullshit: white paper has little information, and it is about an old version of ppcoin. It isn't relevant anymore, and probably it wasn't really ever relevant...

After harsh criticism (including mine) Sunny King changed  how PoS works...

It actually have got considerably more secure, I admit it. Still I believe it is inferior to proof-of-work and to PoS+PoW hybrids.

But what's alarming is that Sunny King is not willing to publish his security analysis. When I did some analysis on my own he showed that he is fully aware of issues involved. But he simply does not want to participate in discussion. I.e. he develops some algorithm, says that it should work and you people believe him. That's pathetic.

[dirtycat]

lol you guys are talking about PP

[Sunny King]

I don't know why you guys resurrected 2 months old thread...

I support LTC, I just think as you said, it doesnt really bring anything new to the table.  The information about PPC can be read on the white papers for those who are curious.

This is bullshit: white paper has little information, and it is about an old version of ppcoin. It isn't relevant anymore, and probably it wasn't really ever relevant...

After harsh criticism (including mine) Sunny King changed  how PoS works...

It actually have got considerably more secure, I admit it. Still I believe it is inferior to proof-of-work and to PoS+PoW hybrids.

But what's alarming is that Sunny King is not willing to publish his security analysis. When I did some analysis on my own he showed that he is fully aware of issues involved. But he simply does not want to participate in discussion. I.e. he develops some algorithm, says that it should work and you people believe him. That's pathetic.

I am perfectly willing to engage in discussions however to my disappointment only cunicula among the self-proclaimed proof-of-stake experts seems to be capable of civil discussions. I don't see much merit in your so-called security analysis. I understand your criticism, but coblee also thinks the type of attacks you are concerned with are not practical when you presented the same argument to his litecoin proposal. Sure I will consider improvements in the future as problems arise, but that's hardly a valid excuse to paint ppcoin design as worthless.

The problem I see with your camp is that you guys have too much ego and think only your proof-of-stake design is good. The so-called critics (except for cunicula) did not give even a tiny credit to ppcoin team and me. I only hear regurgitation of how your design is more legitimate and superior blah blah plus a lot of dirty words thrown on ppcoin.

I am sorry I cannot acknowledge this type of 'criticism' as constructive. No you didn't contribute to ppcoin, with or without your 'harsh criticism' I was going to introduce the v0.2 improvement to ppcoin, which I entirely came up with by myself.

I hope you can realize the error in your ways and start engaging in meaningful discussions without unreasonable attack on ppcoin and me. I think you are smart and maybe can contribute some good ideas if your mind is in the right place. As I said before I wish everyone of us can look deeper and realize that maybe we work towards the same larger goal so we can throw away our petty differences and be respectful to each other. I do not hate all these litecoin trolls either who throw insults on me freely, but I pity them and hope one day they would realize what they did was wrong as well.

[Liquid]

I don't know why you guys resurrected 2 months old thread...

I support LTC, I just think as you said, it doesnt really bring anything new to the table.  The information about PPC can be read on the white papers for those who are curious.

This is bullshit: white paper has little information, and it is about an old version of ppcoin. It isn't relevant anymore, and probably it wasn't really ever relevant...

After harsh criticism (including mine) Sunny King changed  how PoS works...

It actually have got considerably more secure, I admit it. Still I believe it is inferior to proof-of-work and to PoS+PoW hybrids.

But what's alarming is that Sunny King is not willing to publish his security analysis. When I did some analysis on my own he showed that he is fully aware of issues involved. But he simply does not want to participate in discussion. I.e. he develops some algorithm, says that it should work and you people believe him. That's pathetic.

I am perfectly willing to engage in discussions however to my disappointment only cunicula among the self-proclaimed proof-of-stake experts seems to be capable of civil discussions. I don't see much merit in your so-called security analysis. I understand your criticism, but coblee also thinks the type of attacks you are concerned with are not practical when you presented the same argument to his litecoin proposal. Sure I will consider improvements in the future as problems arise, but that's hardly a valid excuse to paint ppcoin design as worthless.

The problem I see with your camp is that you guys have too much ego and think only your proof-of-stake design is good. The so-called critics (except for cunicula) did not give even a tiny credit to ppcoin team and me. I only hear regurgitation of how your design is more legitimate and superior blah blah plus a lot of dirty words thrown on ppcoin.

I am sorry I cannot acknowledge this type of 'criticism' as constructive. No you didn't contribute to ppcoin, with or without your 'harsh criticism' I was going to introduce the v0.2 improvement to ppcoin, which I entirely came up with by myself.

I hope you can realize the error in your ways and start engaging in meaningful discussions without unreasonable attack on ppcoin and me. I think you are smart and maybe can contribute some good ideas if your mind is in the right place. As I said before I wish everyone of us can look deeper and realize that maybe we work towards the same larger goal so we can throw away our petty differences and be respectful to each other. I do not hate all these litecoin trolls either who throw insults on me freely, but I pity them and hope one day they would realize what they did was wrong as well.

+1 well said, too much ego in this place

[SRoulette]

just my 2 ppc here

Sunny contacted myself directly after seeing my issue with payments below 1 ppc.
For my limited experience and first impression he seems very willing to discuss any issue with ppc.

[cunicula]

The point about egos is on point. Most criticism (not all) is driven by personal feelings. This type of criticism is just noise and should be ignored.

That said, killerstorm raised a very important point. The workings of PPC are opaque. Learning the  protocol requires sifting through the code. It is not reasonable to expect outsiders to do this.

This makes it very difficult for outsiders to analyze PPC. A new white paper which contains details sufficient to implement ppc independently would solve this problem.

Sunny has to be the person to write this. Sonny, lay out the protocol details and let these details speak for themselves.

[smoothie]

I agree. Claiming you (Sunny Drag Queen) spent $100,000 to $200,000 of development time on PPC is EGO


AND A LIE.

[DiCE1904]

I agree. Claiming you (Sunny Drag Queen) spent $100,000 to $200,000 of development time on PPC is EGO.

beat me too it smoothie...did he not take it in bitcoin too?