They say it can't be the miners

[cafucafucafu]

They say miners do not make enough coins to move the market. However they forget that miners can hoard and dump when the price goes up.

I really wish there was a way of knowing what is going on. The usual candidates are:

Stolen coins
Merchant adoption
Manipulation by whales
Miners

The exchanges know who is dumping the coins. I wish they would tell us what the source is (without giving away identities).

[gentlemand]

Chinese miners? They make up a big proportion of the coins mined and they're in a country where BTC is essentially useless for anything other than selling or market playing.

The Chinese government should've done the world a favour and truly shut down any possible market avenue available to them. They're not exactly doing anything to contribute to the ecosystem and that's what Bitcoin needs.

[Amph]

i doubt they are dumping 3600 coin every day, unless the network is 100% chinese, and this isn't true at all, more like 50%

and you missed early adopters, which can dump a bigger amount than just a tiny 3600 coin

i don't think miners are the problem at all

[randy8777]

it's a combination of everything. miners, whales, and people who are shorting to buy in at a lower price. there is no bad or good news, i guess the market is a bit unsure at this point.

[cafucafucafu]

Chinese miners? They make up a big proportion of the coins mined and they're in a country where BTC is essentially useless for anything other than selling or market playing.

The Chinese government should've done the world a favour and truly shut down any possible market avenue available to them. They're not exactly doing anything to contribute to the ecosystem and that's what Bitcoin needs.

But have you noticed that most dumps happen on western exchanges? Why is that?

[Amph]

Chinese miners? They make up a big proportion of the coins mined and they're in a country where BTC is essentially useless for anything other than selling or market playing.

The Chinese government should've done the world a favour and truly shut down any possible market avenue available to them. They're not exactly doing anything to contribute to the ecosystem and that's what Bitcoin needs.

But have you noticed that most dumps happen on western exchanges? Why is that?

those are early adopters, and i doubt there are many chinese early adopters, they didn't know about bitcoin back then

[dropt]

Chinese miners? They make up a big proportion of the coins mined and they're in a country where BTC is essentially useless for anything other than selling or market playing.

The Chinese government should've done the world a favour and truly shut down any possible market avenue available to them. They're not exactly doing anything to contribute to the ecosystem and that's what Bitcoin needs.

But have you noticed that most dumps happen on western exchanges? Why is that?

those are early adopters, and i doubt there are many chinese early adopters, they didn't know about bitcoin back then

How many early adopters holding how many coins?  Are these early adopters the same early adopters we'll be using in 2025 as an excuse for dumps instead of addressing the real issue of leveraged trading in thin markets populated by greedy speculators?

[cafucafucafu]

Chinese miners? They make up a big proportion of the coins mined and they're in a country where BTC is essentially useless for anything other than selling or market playing.

The Chinese government should've done the world a favour and truly shut down any possible market avenue available to them. They're not exactly doing anything to contribute to the ecosystem and that's what Bitcoin needs.

But have you noticed that most dumps happen on western exchanges? Why is that?

those are early adopters, and i doubt there are many chinese early adopters, they didn't know about bitcoin back then

Good point.

[ensurance982]

Sure, there's a constant pressure by all the coins being mined. How big this pressure is... no one knows. I don't thing that 3600 are being dumped every day. There are always people in for the long run and investors looking to buy big batches before they hit the open market.

[WillMilk4Coin]

How many early adopters holding how many coins?  Are these early adopters the same early adopters we'll be using in 2025 as an excuse for dumps instead of addressing the real issue of leveraged trading in thin markets populated by greedy speculators?

^Had to login to agree, it's exactly correct;

and only until massive increases in volume led by interests in bitcoin's utility rather than its speculative potential will the trend look any different.

[ensurance982]

How many early adopters holding how many coins?  Are these early adopters the same early adopters we'll be using in 2025 as an excuse for dumps instead of addressing the real issue of leveraged trading in thin markets populated by greedy speculators?

^Had to login to agree, it's exactly correct;

and only until massive increases in volume led by interests in bitcoin's utility rather than its speculative potential will the trend look any different.

Early adopters have already cashed out as much as they felt they needed to long time ago. I don't think that there are substantial amounts of BTCs being cashed out by early adopters these days.

[Amph]

Chinese miners? They make up a big proportion of the coins mined and they're in a country where BTC is essentially useless for anything other than selling or market playing.

The Chinese government should've done the world a favour and truly shut down any possible market avenue available to them. They're not exactly doing anything to contribute to the ecosystem and that's what Bitcoin needs.

But have you noticed that most dumps happen on western exchanges? Why is that?

those are early adopters, and i doubt there are many chinese early adopters, they didn't know about bitcoin back then

How many early adopters holding how many coins?  Are these early adopters the same early adopters we'll be using in 2025 as an excuse for dumps instead of addressing the real issue of leveraged trading in thin markets populated by greedy speculators?

i can't buy the whole "dumping is miner fault", they are a tiny treat(even if they dump the whole 3600 a day, which is unlikely), the problem must come from early adopters(and thieves yes), many of them have so many bitcoin is not even funny

we are talking about 100k... and for early adopters, i do not mean only the guys from 2009 or 2010, everyone that bought at sub 100-150, are a potential danger for the market, they can be included as a "sort of early adopters"

[inca]

Why anyone would think miners are behind a protracted bear market which is depressing their own income stream is beyond me.

It is like the oil producers dumping huge amounts of oil on exchanges and not caring about selling for best price.

Producers of commodities want the best price for said commodity. They may use sophisticated hedging strategies but certainly not by dumping 10,000 coins in two minutes. In fact when demand is low they hoard and actively restrict supply - the exact opposite of current market action.

It is just a few large speculators running the market up and down and profiting in both directions. The kind of blatant manipulation only possible in unregulated markets.

The only thing to fear is central bank intervention, or another large entity with enormous capital reserves who doesn't care about the ecosystem and is maliciously trying to destroy confidence in the currency through excessive volatility.

[kwukduck]

Stop trying to put the blame on somebody or find excuses.
It's simple. Nobody wants to use bitcoin, it got exposed as a ponzi scheme and now people are panicking to get rid of their new crypto beanie babies.

There is no use for bitcoin, it is flawed in pretty much every technical and economical aspect, it has no real value. THAT is why it's crashing, not because of some sophisticated reason.

[srgkrgkj]

kwuk thats a bit harsh on Bitcoin ! Considering its only in it first years this might be considered normal as everyone including the criminals get their turn

[brokenchair]

I think some of them seem to dump at the same time, but there was someone who posted that they probably sell the coins off market.  That sounds like a smart idea and i'm sure some do that as well. 
I am sure they all have their own plans.

Stop trying to put the blame on somebody or find excuses.
It's simple. Nobody wants to use bitcoin, it got exposed as a ponzi scheme and now people are panicking to get rid of their new crypto beanie babies.

There is no use for bitcoin, it is flawed in pretty much every technical and economical aspect, it has no real value. THAT is why it's crashing, not because of some sophisticated reason.

 

Being flawed in every technical economic aspect is an extremely sophisticated reason btc would fail. 

[lihuajkl]

I think some of them seem to dump at the same time, but there was someone who posted that they probably sell the coins off market.  That sounds like a smart idea and i'm sure some do that as well. 
I am sure they all have their own plans.

Stop trying to put the blame on somebody or find excuses.
It's simple. Nobody wants to use bitcoin, it got exposed as a ponzi scheme and now people are panicking to get rid of their new crypto beanie babies.

There is no use for bitcoin, it is flawed in pretty much every technical and economical aspect, it has no real value. THAT is why it's crashing, not because of some sophisticated reason.

 

Being flawed in every technical economic aspect is an extremely sophisticated reason btc would fail. 

Some ppl are just speculating the price of bitcoin, not a cryptocurrency believer. So they are easy to get panic to sell their holding. They are impacted by the sad market sentiment, think bitcoin would fail.

[cafucafucafu]

Sure, there's a constant pressure by all the coins being mined. How big this pressure is... no one knows. I don't thing that 3600 are being dumped every day.

This is besides the point. They don't need to dump every day. They hoard and dump when the price is right.

[BitcoinNewbie15]

I think miners selling might have something to do with it. I don't know for sure though. I guess we will have to see what happens after the block halving.

[keystroke]

I think miners selling might have something to do with it. I don't know for sure though. I guess we will have to see what happens after the block halving.

This will tell us everything...