They say it can't be the miners

[flyingplows]

Stop trying to put the blame on somebody or find excuses.
It's simple. Nobody wants to use bitcoin, it got exposed as a ponzi scheme and now people are panicking to get rid of their new crypto beanie babies.

There is no use for bitcoin, it is flawed in pretty much every technical and economical aspect, it has no real value. THAT is why it's crashing, not because of some sophisticated reason.

''it got exposed as a ponzi scheme''? Can you elaborate on that please
There are a lot of money moving around because of or in form of BTC. In my opinion it is not crashing also, it was just overpriced and now, as it is priced correctly, - BTC should slowly move forward from now on, I guess, until price explosion

[gentlemand]

Stop trying to put the blame on somebody or find excuses.
It's simple. Nobody wants to use bitcoin, it got exposed as a ponzi scheme and now people are panicking to get rid of their new crypto beanie babies.

There is no use for bitcoin, it is flawed in pretty much every technical and economical aspect, it has no real value. THAT is why it's crashing, not because of some sophisticated reason.

''it got exposed as a ponzi scheme''? Can you elaborate on that please
There are a lot of money moving around because of or in form of BTC. In my opinion it is not crashing also, it was just overpriced and now, as it is priced correctly, - BTC should slowly move forward from now on, I guess, until price explosion

Anyone who says 'ponzi' or 'beanie baby' is (a) - not worth wasting your bandwidth on responding to and (b) - probably our favourite new alt account creator so even more staggeringly worthless.

It could be viewed as a pyramid scheme though.

[flyingplows]

^

Everyone knows it's a ponzi scheme. How else is the price of your coins gonna go up, with a million dollars worth of coins mined every day?  Magic?

I don't know BTC is a ponzi for one... The price should go up because of the scarcity of coins due to mining rewards halving and because of increasing merchant adoption. And those new coins are bought by new people interested in crypto and BTC plus current holders wishing to increase their portfolio You think it's too naive? But BTC supply is limited in the end and most buyers know it - if it becomes widely used there might be and will be too few coins = price goes moon

[Q7]

I think whatever bitcoin that they make in a day, a portion of it will be sold off, just enough to cover the operating cost. The rest they can continue to hold on just like anyone else and sell when the price jumps. That is why we are facing a lot of resistances on its way up.

[tabnloz]

Chinese miners? They make up a big proportion of the coins mined and they're in a country where BTC is essentially useless for anything other than selling or market playing.

The Chinese government should've done the world a favour and truly shut down any possible market avenue available to them. They're not exactly doing anything to contribute to the ecosystem and that's what Bitcoin needs.

But have you noticed that most dumps happen on western exchanges? Why is that?

those are early adopters, and i doubt there are many chinese early adopters, they didn't know about bitcoin back then

How many early adopters holding how many coins?  Are these early adopters the same early adopters we'll be using in 2025 as an excuse for dumps instead of addressing the real issue of leveraged trading in thin markets populated by greedy speculators?

I think part of the reason is this. Many traders who have profited hugely from the bear market aren't bitcoin proponents, they're traders. they're excited by a new, inexperienced and unregulated market. They want dollars and, percentage wise, they profit more on the way down than on the way up. I'm not real sure about the miners continually dumping argument; sure many would do so to recoup costs but others would be looking to hold in hope of future gains.

I also don't think miners would try to create a supply glut to kill off rivals - the industry is developing so fast that obsolescence does that job relatively quickly (CPU>GPU>ASIC>?)

I do believe it is happening in other industries, like oil, where there's a big power play going on; the Saudi's are keeping supply constant in a period of dwindling demand, in order to squeeze out the US led, highly leveraged, fracking industry.

[dropt]

I think part of the reason is this. Many traders who have profited hugely from the bear market aren't bitcoin proponents, they're traders. they're excited by a new, inexperienced and unregulated market. They want dollars and, percentage wise, they profit more on the way down than on the way up. I'm not real sure about the miners continually dumping argument; sure many would do so to recoup costs but others would be looking to hold in hope of future gains.

+1

[Fabrizio89]

It's surely one part of the equation.

[tabnloz]

To be fair, many miners ops have been burnt by the slowdown, depending on the time at which they invested etc

Via Tuur Demeester on twitter, this mining company sold $8m worth of bitcoin in Q1

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150410/pdf/42xtjqm13dqkt2.pdf

[ashour]

i doubt they are dumping 3600 coin every day, unless the network is 100% chinese, and this isn't true at all, more like 50%

and you missed early adopters, which can dump a bigger amount than just a tiny 3600 coin

i don't think miners are the problem at all

Probably early adopters and darknet markets are dumping the huge amount of coins daily.

[ashour]

To be fair, many miners ops have been burnt by the slowdown, depending on the time at which they invested etc

Via Tuur Demeester on twitter, this mining company sold $8m worth of bitcoin in Q1

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150410/pdf/42xtjqm13dqkt2.pdf

Many mining farms have halted or completely stopped the mining since the price is low. Although many farm still mine bitcoin  and take a loss which will probably lead to a mass dumping once the price rises again.

[rich93]

To be fair, many miners ops have been burnt by the slowdown, depending on the time at which they invested etc

Via Tuur Demeester on twitter, this mining company sold $8m worth of bitcoin in Q1

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150410/pdf/42xtjqm13dqkt2.pdf

Many mining farms have halted or completely stopped the mining since the price is low. Although many farm still mine bitcoin  and take a loss which will probably lead to a mass dumping once the price rises again.

Have there been cases where big farms went bankrupt and the banks seized their Bitcoin assets and dumped them? It would be easy for banks to seize mining equipment but much harder for them to seize a company's Bitcoins. Nevertheless, I thought Butterfly Labs might have had their Bitcoins seized.

[manselr]

They say miners do not make enough coins to move the market. However they forget that miners can hoard and dump when the price goes up.

I really wish there was a way of knowing what is going on. The usual candidates are:

Stolen coins
Merchant adoption
Manipulation by whales
Miners

The exchanges know who is dumping the coins. I wish they would tell us what the source is (without giving away identities).

It depends, only the big time miners can afford storing a lot of BTC. The average 1 person miner is not making enough to store at a speed fast enough to move the market. For example search Barnacules mining operation. He is making profit, but he can't store fast enough to take a huge dump that would destabilize the market.

[tabnloz]

To be fair, many miners ops have been burnt by the slowdown, depending on the time at which they invested etc

Via Tuur Demeester on twitter, this mining company sold $8m worth of bitcoin in Q1

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150410/pdf/42xtjqm13dqkt2.pdf

Many mining farms have halted or completely stopped the mining since the price is low. Although many farm still mine bitcoin  and take a loss which will probably lead to a mass dumping once the price rises again.

Sure, this happens in all downturns. Most industries tend to see this (mining, oil etc where its happening now) and market share gets consolidated among 3 - 4 major players, as btc mining generally is.

I don't think you'll see 'mass' dumping, but the combination of miners trading into cash, some holders cashing out at even and the usual profit taking on an uptrend might temper any Nov 2013 style melt up.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

Stop trying to put the blame on somebody or find excuses.
It's simple. Nobody wants to use bitcoin, it got exposed as a ponzi scheme and now people are panicking to get rid of their new crypto beanie babies.

There is no use for bitcoin, it is flawed in pretty much every technical and economical aspect, it has no real value. THAT is why it's crashing, not because of some sophisticated reason.

''it got exposed as a ponzi scheme''? Can you elaborate on that please
There are a lot of money moving around because of or in form of BTC. In my opinion it is not crashing also, it was just overpriced and now, as it is priced correctly, - BTC should slowly move forward from now on, I guess, until price explosion

The people that say BTC is a ponzi scheme are a joke, they just don't get it.
"Oh, this guy got first years ago and gets to have more, it means its a ponzi".
So basically every investment ever is a ponzi, right.

[mmortal03]

It is just a few large speculators running the market up and down and profiting in both directions. The kind of blatant manipulation only possible in unregulated markets.

The only thing to fear is central bank intervention, or another large entity with enormous capital reserves who doesn't care about the ecosystem and is maliciously trying to destroy confidence in the currency through excessive volatility.

It sounds like having a bitcoiner win a big time lottery drawing and invest a good chunk of his winnings into Bitcoin would be the black swan event necessary to combat this downturn. No one else seems to have enough funds to alter the direction it's been going.

[mmortal03]

To be fair, many miners ops have been burnt by the slowdown, depending on the time at which they invested etc

Via Tuur Demeester on twitter, this mining company sold $8m worth of bitcoin in Q1

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150410/pdf/42xtjqm13dqkt2.pdf

Many mining farms have halted or completely stopped the mining since the price is low. Although many farm still mine bitcoin  and take a loss which will probably lead to a mass dumping once the price rises again.

The hash rate keeps going up, though.

[flyingplows]

Maybe because a lot of these ''farms shutting down'' are just ponzies collapsing without any hashrate at all. Look how many cloudmining companies ''stopped'' mining like cex.io, zencloud, amhash and others, not to mention all the smaller ''miners''.

[techgeek]

I feel out of the options pointed out, its more of stolen coins, with manipulation based on whales and miners all together.

The stolen coins thing, should be a daily thing. We always hear someone got scammed so yeah. But as for the other two elements, its hard to judge since miner pools some have ceized to go beyond a certain difficulty so like CEX is one of them.

[Amph]

To be fair, many miners ops have been burnt by the slowdown, depending on the time at which they invested etc

Via Tuur Demeester on twitter, this mining company sold $8m worth of bitcoin in Q1

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150410/pdf/42xtjqm13dqkt2.pdf

Many mining farms have halted or completely stopped the mining since the price is low. Although many farm still mine bitcoin  and take a loss which will probably lead to a mass dumping once the price rises again.

The hash rate keeps going up, though.

that's big china farm, with cheap erlectricity, they can afford more mining hardware, and make roi on those faster than others, thank to their big hash and their big earning every day

besides this, the hasrate is a bit fluctuating right now(-1.95% coming in 5 days, so it's not rising at all)

[mmortal03]

To be fair, many miners ops have been burnt by the slowdown, depending on the time at which they invested etc

Via Tuur Demeester on twitter, this mining company sold $8m worth of bitcoin in Q1

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150410/pdf/42xtjqm13dqkt2.pdf

Many mining farms have halted or completely stopped the mining since the price is low. Although many farm still mine bitcoin  and take a loss which will probably lead to a mass dumping once the price rises again.

The hash rate keeps going up, though.

that's big china farm, with cheap erlectricity, they can afford more mining hardware, and make roi on those faster than others, thank to their big hash and their big earning every day

besides this, the hasrate is a bit fluctuating right now(-1.95% coming in 5 days, so it's not rising at all)

Right, in the last 60 days, the 7-day average is sideways, but zoom out further and it's clearly been going up throughout this bear market, just decelerating like it did during 2011-2012.
https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=60days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=7&show_header=true&scale=1&address=