Net Neutrality in India

[panju1]

While the telecom companies attack on net neutrality seems to have failed in the US, they still seem to be at it in other markets. In India, there has still lots of room for ambiguity.

Facebook has tied up with Reliance, one of the telecom service providers, to provide free access to Facebook, while other applications like Twitter will be charged. Airtel is planning to come up with its own version called "Airtel Zero". Vodafone is watching from the sidelines, ready to enter the market if required.

The Telecom Regulatory Authority of India has released a whitepaper on Net Neutrality and invited comments on the same. Unfortunately, it seems to have been authored by somebody from the telecom sector. 

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/Time-to-fight-for-net-neutrality-in-India/articleshow/46757178.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/social/Fight-for-net-neutrality-unites-internet/articleshow/46896316.cms

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[bryant.coleman]

I've been to India multiple times, and I have never liked the broadband facilities there. A decent connection (512 Kbps, i.e 64 KBps) costs as much as $25 and the service is really bad. In my country, I pay half of that amount for a 50Mbps connection!!!!

[redsn0w]

I've been to India multiple times, and I have never liked the broadband facilities there. A decent connection (512 Kbps, i.e 64 KBps) costs as much as $25 and the service is really bad. In my country, I pay half of that amount for a 50Mbps connection!!!!

Can I ask you where do you live? Here in Italy at the moment I'm paying 45 € (two months) for a 20/5 Mbps and I don't think it is too much.

However I have some friends that live in India and they always tell me " my connection is very bad, and we pay too much". As in almost all the Asian countries.

[NUFCrichard]

I've been to India multiple times, and I have never liked the broadband facilities there. A decent connection (512 Kbps, i.e 64 KBps) costs as much as $25 and the service is really bad. In my country, I pay half of that amount for a 50Mbps connection!!!!

Can I ask you where do you live? Here in Italy at the moment I'm paying 45 € (two months) for a 20/5 Mbps and I don't think it is too much.

However I have some friends that live in India and they always tell me " my connection is very bad, and we pay too much". As in almost all the Asian countries.

I pay 20€ a month for 32/2 in Germany, I wouldn't expect India to have a great broadband service, but I didn't expect that it would be really expensive too!

I would be interested to know if in the bigger cities this if different, I mean 4g is much faster than 512kb/64kb, so it shouldn't be hard to implement in big cities.

[Sithara007]

In my opinion, the Metro cities in India like Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, etc. has good net connectivity compared to other non-metro cities. The band width which is being used by major telecom are better in Metros. I know all this because I have lived in many metro cities in India.

[Mike Christ]

Net neutrality is only a problem because existing telecom companies have incredible government grants and restrictions making it extremely difficult for new businesses to sprout, as it's too expensive.  Because you have a limited amount of companies providing any given service, those companies can easily collude and lobby and do whatever the hell they want with their businesses, such as slowing traffic and charging for certain sites.  What are you gonna do, change services?  You got like two, maybe three max options in any given area, you're pretty much screwed if they all agree on the same practices.

The solution?  Take away these grants and restrictions, stop allowing your government to regulate your businesses, and regulate them yourselves with your money.  In this case, if any single business starts acting naughty, there's plenty of alternatives to go to; the more alternatives, the easier it is for any one company to undercut another company and take their business as their own.  That's good: this is what competition does, you either be the best at what you do or you go under for being crap.  No need for net neutrality, it'd never be a problem.

And what do people advocate?  More government grants and restrictions: classify the fuckers as a public utility and further solidify their ranks as oligopolies, making it that much harder for any new business to come up and compete.  The fuck is wrong with people?  Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMG-LWyNcAs  Caterpillar is "the people", wasp is "the state and all its kin including corporations", and the maggots, well that's the wasp's ideas slowly killing the caterpillar while it cares and nurtures these ideas to its own death.  Some seriously fucked up zombie mind control voodoo bullshit going on here.  There's also folklore in Africa surrounding the idea of zombies, except they're not undead, they're just slaves to the "witch" that turns them into mindless drones.  Expending one's time, energy and health for the benefit of a predator...I have to say, it's among the most vile schemes in this world.

[ashour]

I've been to India multiple times, and I have never liked the broadband facilities there. A decent connection (512 Kbps, i.e 64 KBps) costs as much as $25 and the service is really bad. In my country, I pay half of that amount for a 50Mbps connection!!!!

It really depends on the infrastructure that is invested by the telecommunication providers, also to note that India is a HUGE country and bigger countries always tend to have slow/bad internet connections. Probably in 10 years the cable/internet infrastructure will be better and more stable. It's just a matter of funding and time.

[redsn0w]

I've been to India multiple times, and I have never liked the broadband facilities there. A decent connection (512 Kbps, i.e 64 KBps) costs as much as $25 and the service is really bad. In my country, I pay half of that amount for a 50Mbps connection!!!!

Can I ask you where do you live? Here in Italy at the moment I'm paying 45 € (two months) for a 20/5 Mbps and I don't think it is too much.

However I have some friends that live in India and they always tell me " my connection is very bad, and we pay too much". As in almost all the Asian countries.

I pay 20€ a month for 32/2 in Germany, I wouldn't expect India to have a great broadband service, but I didn't expect that it would be really expensive too!

I would be interested to know if in the bigger cities this if different, I mean 4g is much faster than 512kb/64kb, so it shouldn't be hard to implement in big cities.

Yes 20 € a month for a 32/2 Mb is very good, Germany is a very good country... maybe one day I will visit it.

Maybe as Sithara 007 said, in the metro city there isn't that problem. The problem is the countryside city, etc.

I've been to India multiple times, and I have never liked the broadband facilities there. A decent connection (512 Kbps, i.e 64 KBps) costs as much as $25 and the service is really bad. In my country, I pay half of that amount for a 50Mbps connection!!!!

It really depends on the infrastructure that is invested by the telecommunication providers, also to note that India is a HUGE country and bigger countries always tend to have slow/bad internet connections. Probably in 10 years the cable/internet infrastructure will be better and more stable. It's just a matter of funding and time.

When I am see the Google fiber, I really can't imaginate those people surf internet at 1 Gbps and here I have 20 Mbps  .

[MegaFall]

Because you have a limited amount of companies providing any given service, those companies can easily collude and lobby and do whatever the hell they want with their businesses, such as slowing traffic and charging for certain sites.

You have limited choices because local municipalities form contractual monopolies with companies to institute a one and only one option system for utilities. You have governments creating a problem and then trying to solve their own problem by enforcing price ceilings on the products; which then makes it highly unprofitable to be in the business that the company is in. How does that make an sense in the slightest? If I were comcast or Verizon or whatever I would say screw it, we're no longer over internet access.

[panju1]

What do you do when public opinion is in favour of net neutrality and you as a telecom operator still want to make money? You change the definition of net neutrality!

"In its pristine form, net neutrality does not exist anywhere in the world. What we need to do is find the right definition that creates value for India, for customers and for app developers" - Srini Gopalan, Airtel

https://in.newshub.org/airtel-promises-no-slow-lanes-internet-wants-pragmatic-approach-net-neutrality-15306095.html

[Sithara007]

What do you do when public opinion is in favour of net neutrality and you as a telecom operator still want to make money? You change the definition of net neutrality!

"In its pristine form, net neutrality does not exist anywhere in the world. What we need to do is find the right definition that creates value for India, for customers and for app developers" - Srini Gopalan, Airtel

https://in.newshub.org/airtel-promises-no-slow-lanes-internet-wants-pragmatic-approach-net-neutrality-15306095.html

Yes you are right but it's not only the telecom operator who are responsible for that. Government is also equally responsible for that. Don't you think?

[bryant.coleman]

Can I ask you where do you live?

South-east Asia.

Maybe as Sithara 007 said, in the metro city there isn't that problem. The problem is the countryside city, etc.

It is a problem everywhere. Even in the metro cities, they are charging $25 per month for a 512 Kbps connection. And the quality is very bad. India is the place where you get bad quality stuff for ultra-expensive prices.

[panju1]

The public backlash seems to have had some impact. One of Airtel's biggest clients, Flipkart has pulled out. 

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/flipkart-pulls-out-of-airtel-deal-amid-backlash-over-net-neutrality-754829

[bryant.coleman]

The public backlash seems to have had some impact. One of Airtel's biggest clients, Flipkart has pulled out. 

Hah... I was referring to Airtel in this post:

I've been to India multiple times, and I have never liked the broadband facilities there. A decent connection (512 Kbps, i.e 64 KBps) costs as much as $25 and the service is really bad. In my country, I pay half of that amount for a 50Mbps connection!!!!

Airtel is the worst broadband provider in the world. Extremely expensive with awful service. I still wonder how ordinary Indians tolerate this cartel.

[redsn0w]

Can I ask you where do you live?

South-east Asia.

Maybe as Sithara 007 said, in the metro city there isn't that problem. The problem is the countryside city, etc.

It is a problem everywhere. Even in the metro cities, they are charging $25 per month for a 512 Kbps connection. And the quality is very bad. India is the place where you get bad quality stuff for ultra-expensive prices.

25 bucks for 512 Kbps  , I hope you are kidding me . This is really insane, why that high price for almost nothing?

[bryant.coleman]

25 bucks for 512 Kbps  , I hope you are kidding me . This is really insane, why that high price for almost nothing?

Some 80% of India's population lives on government handouts. So the government taxes anything taxable at astronomic rates. For broadband companies, there is a spectrum fee for the necessary license. It can run in to billions of USD. Then there are taxes such as Corporate tax, Labor tax.etc, which amount to some 60-65% of the profits. Then the customer ends up paying taxes like VAT, Service Tax, Cess.etc. So in the end the government is responsible for 80% of the bill amount.

[abyrnes81]

I've been to India multiple times, and I have never liked the broadband facilities there. A decent connection (512 Kbps, i.e 64 KBps) costs as much as $25 and the service is really bad. In my country, I pay half of that amount for a 50Mbps connection!!!!

512 Kbps is not a decent connection. You'd be struggling to load Bitcointalk on that and can forget about Youtube, uploading photos and so on.
It's bad if you have such connection on your smartphone, if we're talking PC it's a tragedy.

The bad and expensive connection doesn't stop them from using the web. They're doing better than Africans and Arab countries

From that 'stats' it seems that in the Africa there a lot of people don't (or can't) use/surf internet, but the interesting thing is the Brazile (50-100 mln internet users).

25 bucks for 512 Kbps  , I hope you are kidding me . This is really insane, why that high price for almost nothing?

Some 80% of India's population lives on government handouts. So the government taxes anything taxable at astronomic rates. For broadband companies, there is a spectrum fee for the necessary license. It can run in to billions of USD. Then there are taxes such as Corporate tax, Labor tax.etc, which amount to some 60-65% of the profits. Then the customer ends up paying taxes like VAT, Service Tax, Cess.etc. So in the end the government is responsible for 80% of the bill amount.

Those taxes are really useless  , why should pay the taxes if the service sucks?

[Sithara007]

Can I ask you where do you live?

South-east Asia.

Maybe as Sithara 007 said, in the metro city there isn't that problem. The problem is the countryside city, etc.

It is a problem everywhere. Even in the metro cities, they are charging $25 per month for a 512 Kbps connection. And the quality is very bad. India is the place where you get bad quality stuff for ultra-expensive prices.

In that sense you are absolutely right my friend. In India, everything is costly as compare to West or Europe but the services or quality are really shitty. It is only because there is strict Consumer protection laws as compare to India. Of topic but I bought a Tommy Polo Tee in around equivalent to 80-90USD and the same Tee with much better quality you can get in the US in fraction of that amount.

[gkv9]

I've been to India multiple times, and I have never liked the broadband facilities there. A decent connection (512 Kbps, i.e 64 KBps) costs as much as $25 and the service is really bad. In my country, I pay half of that amount for a 50Mbps connection!!!!

Can I ask you where do you live? Here in Italy at the moment I'm paying 45 € (two months) for a 20/5 Mbps and I don't think it is too much.

However I have some friends that live in India and they always tell me " my connection is very bad, and we pay too much". As in almost all the Asian countries.

We Indians actually need some really great services to be provided cheaper compared to what is being provided in foreign countries as the speed that they get at the price is 1/10th or 1/25th the price we pay here, and it's almost impossible to get it due to what these companies have started doing now...

[panju1]

Some 80% of India's population lives on government handouts. So the government taxes anything taxable at astronomic rates. For broadband companies, there is a spectrum fee for the necessary license.

Spectrum is bought through an auction. So it is actually the free market which pushes up the spectrum costs.
However, nothing can justify a stunt like the one Airtel is trying to pull now.

[Sithara007]

Aritel got a big blow when Flipkart, India's one of the biggest of e-commerce site, pulled out of Net Zero. Read the article:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/flipkart-pulls-out-of-airtels-net-neutrality-violating-airtel-zero/articleshow/46916966.cms

[panju1]

The results of the telecom companies, which will be driven to bankruptcy if net neutrality is imposed, have been released.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/04/28/bharti-airtel-results-idINKBN0NJ1L420150428

Idea, which posted a 60 percent rise in quarterly profit on Tuesday, recorded a monthly average revenue per user (ARPU) among its 33.4 million data customers of 150 rupees ($2.38), up from 104 rupees a year ago.

Separately, Bharti, which posted a 30.5 percent rise in profit for the quarter ended March 31, saw its mobile data ARPU rise by 43 rupees to 173 rupees.

[torrentheaven]

In India you won't get better speed in metro as well as non metro cities. And internet charges in India are very much more as compared to other countries. People are willing to pay even more but still nothing in return but nobody will afford to compromise on the quality and services.

[umaOuma]

The Internet Service Providers in India are not upto the mark. They charge you more and in return the speed of internet is below the level. Mr Modi is announcing some big projects everyday but its not a helping a common men richer are getting more richer and poor are getting more poorer.

[erikalui]

Flipkart refused this offer and now only Internet.org is trying to make Facebook free to access on all devices. I open a website like Google and it consumes 250-300 KB and if I don't have an internet plan, it consumes almost Rs. 100 ($2) of my balance.

Talking about internet plans, the rates are ridiculous. I have a connection of $12 and get a speed of 152 KBPS from Tata Photon and most services like BSNL offer $10 for 512 KBPS speed but their connection drops often. With $25, you can get a max speed of 1 MBPS unlimited internet but not more than that. I have seen other countries paying way less than Indian ISPs.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Flipkart refused this offer and now only Internet.org is trying to make Facebook free to access on all devices. I open a website like Google and it consumes 250-300 KB and if I don't have an internet plan, it consumes almost Rs. 100 ($2) of my balance.

Talking about internet plans, the rates are ridiculous. I have a connection of $12 and get a speed of 152 KBPS from Tata Photon and most services like BSNL offer $10 for 512 KBPS speed but their connection drops often. With $25, you can get a max speed of 1 MBPS unlimited internet but not more than that. I have seen other countries paying way less than Indian ISPs.

True. Indian ISPs charge higher amount.

IMHO you should change to MTS or BSNL. From my experience, MTS was better than BSNL. Others especially !DEA, are worse. Use 'em, if you have no other choice. In different countries, experience might be different. I am from South India, btw. Whatever you choose, !DEA is one if the worst and BSNL is one of the best.

[zendantom]

I don't think it will really work in India. As everyone knows that Indian Govt is very corrupted So you can't just blame the the service provider companies Govt is also equally responsible. People are simply cheated by this companies they are paying more and not getting good services in return.

[erikalui]

True. Indian ISPs charge higher amount.

IMHO you should change to MTS or BSNL. From my experience, MTS was better than BSNL. Others especially !DEA, are worse. Use 'em, if you have no other choice. In different countries, experience might be different. I am from South India, btw. Whatever you choose, !DEA is one if the worst and BSNL is one of the best.

My friend who has BSNL has said that she faced an internet downtime for more than a week while this has never been the case with Tata Photon as there has always been an internet connection (whether it's slow or fast). MTS is banned from my city (Mumbai).

[Muhammed Zakir]

I don't think it will really work in India. As everyone knows that Indian Govt is very corrupted So you can't just blame the the service provider companies Govt is also equally responsible. People are simply cheated by this companies they are paying more and not getting good services in return.

Indian Government isn't corrupted like you think. Maybe, you said it isn't good as other countries but corrupted is not the word to use there. Besides, it is developing not developed. So wait... Anyway, I don't have enough trust/faith in Modi's government. Fame is increasing but fame is not the thing I/we want.

What you said is not true. Government is never *equally* responsible. BSNL's verification and other things are faster than others. It's true and as Government give higher privilege to BSNL which I think most countries does the same, other ISPs charge higher amount. But Cost alone is not the problem. ISPs especially !DEA charges high amount and use way too high traffic.

True. Indian ISPs charge higher amount.

IMHO you should change to MTS or BSNL. From my experience, MTS was better than BSNL. Others especially !DEA, are worse. Use 'em, if you have no other choice. In different countries, experience might be different. I am from South India, btw. Whatever you choose, !DEA is one if the worst and BSNL is one of the best.

My friend who has BSNL has said that she faced an internet downtime for more than a week while this has never been the case with Tata Photon as there has always been an internet connection (whether it's slow or fast). MTS is banned from my city (Mumbai).

Maybe, the service in Mumbai is worse than service in my place? I had no problem like this when I used BSNL. Sad, MTS is banned. Any specific reason? I believe they stopped their service in Mumbai and few other places but didn't know it was a ban. Are you sure about it?

[erikalui]

Indian Government isn't corrupted like you think. Maybe, you said it isn't good as other countries but corrupted is not the word to use there. Besides, it is developing not developed. So wait... Anyway, I don't have enough trust/faith in Modi's government. Fame is increasing but fame is not the thing I/we want.

What you said is not true. Government is never *equally* responsible. BSNL's verification and other things are faster than others. It's true and as Government give higher privilege to BSNL which I think most countries does the same, other ISPs charge higher amount. But Cost alone is not the problem. ISPs especially !DEA charges high amount and use way too high traffic.

I don't agree with this as my mom who is a lawyer is aware of the corrupt system. She hasn't met even one honest person in the ministry. They always ask for money under the table (no matter how rich they are). Modi has made many promises of which nothing has been fulfilled till date and the prices have only increased.


May be with regards to the internet, it's not the corruption that's a hurdle but the prices are definitely affected due to taxes charged. For an internet connection of Rs. 650, I pay Rs. 730 (Rs. 80 tax 12.5%) and now I expect the price to get doubled soon. If Net Neutrality is successful, I can only see a positive change for us. I mainly access Facebook and Twitter but the data charges are high. Only Reliance has made it free to access as of now.

Maybe, the service in Mumbai is worse than service in my place? I had no problem like this when I used BSNL. Sad, MTS is banned. Any specific reason? I believe they stopped their service in Mumbai and few other places but didn't know it was a ban. Are you sure about it?

J&K also has the same experience with regards to BSNL. MTS and Uninor was banned due to the 2G Scam and I guess many others too were affected. Vodafone and Airtel managed to pay the amount required but not MTS and Uninor.

[Muhammed Zakir]

I don't agree with this as my mom who is a lawyer is aware of the corrupt system. She hasn't met even one honest person in the ministry. They always ask for money under the table (no matter how rich they are). Modi has made many promises of which nothing has been fulfilled till date and the prices have only increased.

Frankly, I never liked Modi's government. I think he has some hidden plans. He is trying to change democratic country to Hindu country.

May be with regards to the internet, it's not the corruption that's a hurdle but the prices are definitely affected due to taxes charged. For an internet connection of Rs. 650, I pay Rs. 730 (Rs. 80 tax 12.5%) and now I expect the price to get doubled soon. If Net Neutrality is successful, I can only see a positive change for us. I mainly access Facebook and Twitter but the data charges are high. Only Reliance has made it free to access as of now.

True. One of the !DEA ad: "Recharge with ₹xxx and get free access to WhatsApp and Facebook(or Viber)."

J&K also has the same experience with regards to BSNL. MTS and Uninor was banned due to the 2G Scam and I guess many others too were affected. Vodafone and Airtel managed to pay the amount required but not MTS and Uninor.

MTS and Uninor are existing only because of their less costly internet and message offers. Here, MTS is still running because of internet but Uninor is (likely) gone.

[Xenoph0bia]

Indian Government isn't corrupted like you think. Maybe, you said it isn't good as other countries but corrupted is not the word to use there. Besides, it is developing not developed. So wait... Anyway, I don't have enough trust/faith in Modi's government. Fame is increasing but fame is not the thing I/we want.

What you said is not true. Government is never *equally* responsible. BSNL's verification and other things are faster than others. It's true and as Government give higher privilege to BSNL which I think most countries does the same, other ISPs charge higher amount. But Cost alone is not the problem. ISPs especially !DEA charges high amount and use way too high traffic.

I don't agree with this as my mom who is a lawyer is aware of the corrupt system. She hasn't met even one honest person in the ministry. They always ask for money under the table (no matter how rich they are). Modi has made many promises of which nothing has been fulfilled till date and the prices have only increased.


May be with regards to the internet, it's not the corruption that's a hurdle but the prices are definitely affected due to taxes charged. For an internet connection of Rs. 650, I pay Rs. 730 (Rs. 80 tax 12.5%) and now I expect the price to get doubled soon. If Net Neutrality is successful, I can only see a positive change for us. I mainly access Facebook and Twitter but the data charges are high. Only Reliance has made it free to access as of now.

Maybe, the service in Mumbai is worse than service in my place? I had no problem like this when I used BSNL. Sad, MTS is banned. Any specific reason? I believe they stopped their service in Mumbai and few other places but didn't know it was a ban. Are you sure about it?

J&K also has the same experience with regards to BSNL. MTS and Uninor was banned due to the 2G Scam and I guess many others too were affected. Vodafone and Airtel managed to pay the amount required but not MTS and Uninor.

So what you think What's the exact word you need to say for Indian Government?? It its not Corrrupted then should we believe that they are Criminals?? Many of Indian Politicians are involved in Criminal Cases so this word justifies them really well.. I think You belong to political community thats why you are favoring bloody politicians.
So What you think dude?? Is

[panju1]

I don't agree with this as my mom who is a lawyer is aware of the corrupt system. She hasn't met even one honest person in the ministry. They always ask for money under the table (no matter how rich they are). Modi has made many promises of which nothing has been fulfilled till date and the prices have only increased.

Frankly, I never liked Modi's government. I think he has some hidden plans. He is trying to change democratic country to Hindu country.

Nope. That is just fear mongering by the Congress.
I think you are trying to say "He is trying to change democratic secular country to Hindu country"

[bryant.coleman]

Frankly, I never liked Modi's government. I think he has some hidden plans. He is trying to change democratic country to Hindu country.

That depends upon the individual opinion. During the last UPA government, they undertook many measures to favor the Muslims and Christians. Two years ago, I happened to visit Southern India on a vacation. I was visiting a few beaches and resorts in the province of Kerala.

Kerala is one of the regions with a Hindu minority in India. According to the official census, Hindus are some 55% of the population. But in reality only 15% to 20% is Hindu, as the remaining has converted to other religions. These people input "Hindu" in census forms, only to obtain the quota benefits which are given to lower castes.

I was there for a few weeks, and it was very clear that the (real) Hindus constituted an oppressed class, with the Christians dominating every sphere. There is some discrimination against the Muslims also, but they are mostly tolerated by the Christians. Even I got lucky in many places, due to my Christian-sounding name. And now comes the interesting part. The UPA government introduced "minority scholarships" for students from the Christian and Muslim communities, amounting to some $30 per month (which is a big amount in Kerala). The real minority (Hindus) is left with nothing.

Another interesting scenario is from the province of UP, where the chief minister there promised to give $2,000 to every Muslim girl of marriageable age (only to Muslims, nothing for the Hindus). And also in the state of Bengal, there is a $100 per month stipend for Muslim clerics, while many of the Hindu priests are starving. Remember that all this is from tax payer money.

During the UPA government, although Manmohan Sngh was the nominal head of the state, every single decision was taken by Sonia Maino, who is a Roman Catholic. She had a closed ring of associates, selected from the Roman Catholic community, who effectively ran the country (including Margaret Alva, AK Anthony, Oscar Fernandes, YSR Reddy.etc).

With such blatant discrimination perpetrated by the UPA, how can you blame Modi for hidden plans? Did he introduced any such plans for Hindu students?

[operrajunk74]

Modi's Government did not perform as per the expectation level The Promises made by Modi Pre Elections were not fulfilled. But the thing is After Modi got Elected as a PM Inflation rates has increased much more which resulted in paying more for the products which includes internet too.

[Muhammed Zakir]

That depends upon the individual opinion.

True.

During the last UPA government, they undertook many measures to favor the Muslims and Christians. Two years ago, I happened to visit Southern India on a vacation. I was visiting a few beaches and resorts in the province of Kerala.

We could have meet or did we?

Kerala is one of the regions with a Hindu minority in India. According to the official census, Hindus are some 55% of the population. But in reality only 15% to 20% is Hindu, as the remaining has converted to other religions. These people input "Hindu" in census forms, only to obtain the quota benefits which are given to lower castes.

I don't think that is correct. If you went to southern part, Hindus are high. Sadly, I think some of them even have an election ID or any other. I don't know how you come up with that, maybe you visited places where Muslims or Christians are high?

I was there for a few weeks, and it was very clear that the (real) Hindus constituted an oppressed class, with the Christians dominating every sphere. There is some discrimination against the Muslims also, but they are mostly tolerated by the Christians. Even I got lucky in many places, due to my Christian-sounding name.

Are you talking about exceptional cases or in general? Generally, Hindus aren't oppressed caste. They have upper hand in most places.

And now comes the interesting part. The UPA government introduced "minority scholarships" for students from the Christian and Muslim communities, amounting to some $30 per month (which is a big amount in Kerala). The real minority (Hindus) is left with nothing.

Well, not really that bit atm. It is around ₹1,900. Most of the Muslims in Kerala belong to OBC and it has less advantage than SCs and STs. Especially, in universities, they give seats for people just because they are SCs or STs. I have found/seen many situations where overall rating of people from OBC were 90%+ and still they went to end/middle of waiting list and people from SCs and STs who got <60% or so gets seats.

NB: Some Hindus also belong to OBC. I didn't comment on Christians as I don't know about their cases much.

Another interesting scenario is from the province of UP, where the chief minister there promised to give $2,000 to every Muslim girl of marriageable age (only to Muslims, nothing for the Hindus). And also in the state of Bengal, there is a $100 per month stipend for Muslim clerics, while many of the Hindu priests are starving. Remember that all this is from tax payer money.

May I know the source please? AP Chief Minister has said that ₹2,000 crore will be allocated for the welfare of disabled persons in the state in the coming four years. I know people who aren't Muslims, who have said that treating Muslims are bad in central and some of the northern part of the country. It will be helpful if you can give me source.

During the UPA government, although Manmohan Sngh was the nominal head of the state, every single decision was taken by Sonia Maino, who is a Roman Catholic. She had a closed ring of associates, selected from the Roman Catholic community, who effectively ran the country (including Margaret Alva, AK Anthony, Oscar Fernandes, YSR Reddy.etc).

As I have said earlier, I don't know much about Christians. So I can't comment on this too but Sonia Gandhi did have biased decisions. She is Italian. So a "closed ring of associates from Roman Catholic community" is plausible.

With such blatant discrimination perpetrated by the UPA, how can you blame Modi for hidden plans? Did he introduced any such plans for Hindu students?

There are already plans for Hindu students. In many places, they have upper hand too. There are some plans which is silently taking place in some(/many) places which affects Muslims (and Christians)*. Many have accepted Hindu religion because of this. Even no peculiar news. Besides, Modi has a history of crimes and hence, has criminal charges. Yet, Modi is a free bird. I don't think a sudden change in his heart to become good person and that too with more power & money is good.

Btw, what luck did you get in many places, due to your Christian-sounding name? Can you be specific(if possible)?

P.S. I appreciate your knowledge.

* I am not sure about Christians.

[erikalui]

That depends upon the individual opinion. During the last UPA government, they undertook many measures to favor the Muslims and Christians. Two years ago, I happened to visit Southern India on a vacation. I was visiting a few beaches and resorts in the province of Kerala.

Kerala is one of the regions with a Hindu minority in India. According to the official census, Hindus are some 55% of the population. But in reality only 15% to 20% is Hindu, as the remaining has converted to other religions. These people input "Hindu" in census forms, only to obtain the quota benefits which are given to lower castes.

I was there for a few weeks, and it was very clear that the (real) Hindus constituted an oppressed class, with the Christians dominating every sphere. There is some discrimination against the Muslims also, but they are mostly tolerated by the Christians. Even I got lucky in many places, due to my Christian-sounding name. And now comes the interesting part. The UPA government introduced "minority scholarships" for students from the Christian and Muslim communities, amounting to some $30 per month (which is a big amount in Kerala). The real minority (Hindus) is left with nothing.

Another interesting scenario is from the province of UP, where the chief minister there promised to give $2,000 to every Muslim girl of marriageable age (only to Muslims, nothing for the Hindus). And also in the state of Bengal, there is a $100 per month stipend for Muslim clerics, while many of the Hindu priests are starving. Remember that all this is from tax payer money.

During the UPA government, although Manmohan Sngh was the nominal head of the state, every single decision was taken by Sonia Maino, who is a Roman Catholic. She had a closed ring of associates, selected from the Roman Catholic community, who effectively ran the country (including Margaret Alva, AK Anthony, Oscar Fernandes, YSR Reddy.etc).

With such blatant discrimination perpetrated by the UPA, how can you blame Modi for hidden plans? Did he introduced any such plans for Hindu students?

This is the first time I am hearing about Hindus being the minority when actually they are the majority and most of them aren't converted. In my Engineering college, there were 50% Catholics and 50% Hindus as it was a Catholic college and I have seen mostly on Hindus as the majority in India. Muslims, Christians and Parsis are minorities.

If some are being biased for Christians, then many are being biased for Hindus (whether Maharashtrians & Gujaratis). Most people in the ministry are Hindus. Basically if Catholics get some benefit with respect to education, I don't see what's the harm. I got admission being in the minority group and got a scholarship while OBC students got 90% of their fees back as they belong to the OBC group. My college charged me about INR 50,000 for the admission and hence the benefit as well was useless as I had to pay an extra amount.


Like this, there are minority quotas for many people. People who have been in Government jobs get their family members into that job after they retire. Parsi people also have their own benefits and similarly Hindus. some are benefited while some aren't.

I have seen the discrimination with regards to Muslims and most buildings don't allow Muslims to stay with Hindus in Mumbai and that's to avoid any kind of fights.

Here is some info: http://www.financialexpress.com/article/miscellaneous/narendra-modi-reveals-religious-census-muslim-population-rises-24/33530/

[bryant.coleman]

If some are being biased for Christians, then many are being biased for Hindus (whether Maharashtrians & Gujaratis). Most people in the ministry are Hindus. Basically if Catholics get some benefit with respect to education, I don't see what's the harm.

A large part of the educational institutions in India are being run by Christians, despite constituting for just 4% of the total population. And there are reasons for that.

Minority educational institutions (i.e those run by Christians and Muslims) can recruit whoever they want as the faculty, and they can reserve 50% of the student seats for their community. For example, when I was visiting Kerala, I came to visit a Christian school having a student strength of around 6,000. 100% of the teaching staff, as well as 100% of the non-teaching staff (around 300 in number) were from the Christian community, while 80% of the students were Hindu.

But Hindu-run schools are not allowed to recruit only from the Hindu community. They have a say only in 20% of the staff recruitment. Also, only 10% of the student seats can be reserved for their community. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The discrimination against Hindus is prevalent in almost all the spheres.

The popular perception is changing, as social media is putting the "secular" news censorship to waste. Once the Hindus become more aware of the ongoing discrimination, they will dump left-wing parties such as the INC, and the support for the right-wing will increase.

[Muhammed Zakir]

If some are being biased for Christians, then many are being biased for Hindus (whether Maharashtrians & Gujaratis). Most people in the ministry are Hindus. Basically if Catholics get some benefit with respect to education, I don't see what's the harm.

A large part of the educational institutions in India are being run by Christians, despite constituting for just 4% of the total population. And there are reasons for that.

Minority educational institutions (i.e those run by Christians and Muslims) can recruit whoever they want as the faculty, and they can reserve 50% of the student seats for their community. For example, when I was visiting Kerala, I came to visit a Christian school having a student strength of around 6,000. 100% of the teaching staff, as well as 100% of the non-teaching staff (around 300 in number) were from the Christian community, while 80% of the students were Hindu.

But Hindu-run schools are not allowed to recruit only from the Hindu community. They have a say only in 20% of the staff recruitment. Also, only 10% of the student seats can be reserved for their community. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The discrimination against Hindus is prevalent in almost all the spheres.

The popular perception is changing, as social media is putting the "secular" news censorship to waste. Once the Hindus become more aware of the ongoing discrimination, they will dump left-wing parties such as the INC, and the support for the right-wing will increase.

I agree with you except one thing. Christians schools' majority of staffs are Christians but in Muslims schools it isn't like that. They recruit non-Muslims too just like Hindu schools.

[erikalui]

I agree with you except one thing. Christians schools' majority of staffs are Christians but in Muslims schools it isn't like that. They recruit non-Muslims too just like Hindu schools.

Who said that?  

I studied in a Convent school and I had mostly Hindu teachers. Yeah, it was run by Nuns but because it is a convent school and Government aided. I honestly never considered religion as an important factor and hence I never noted the religion of my teachers or friends but now I am feeling that religion is a very important factor. Is it so important?

When anybody asks me how many employees are there in my office, I saw 4000 employees are there. I don't say 500 Muslims, 200 Catholics, 100 Hindus and so on.

I'm sorry but this sounds quite odd when somebody discriminates in terms of religion/caste/country/culture. If a person is injured on the road, I don't ask them what religion they belong to as first they are human beings.

I don't like my own religion as except me, 90% of catholics give importance to the word RELIGION. I don't agree with their views nor their beliefs. I asked a priest to bless my grandmother's grave and he said it's not his job. From that day, I felt there's no use of being a catholic or belong to any other religion as all they care is for themselves. If you are a good human being, I am your friend else not.

All Gods are one. No matter how God looks like.

[Muhammed Zakir]

I agree with you except one thing. Christians schools' majority of staffs are Christians but in Muslims schools it isn't like that. They recruit non-Muslims too just like Hindu schools.

Who said that? 

I studied in a Convent school and I had mostly Hindu teachers. Yeah, it was run by Nuns but because it is a convent school and Government aided. I honestly never considered religion as an important factor and hence I never noted the religion of my teachers or friends but now I am feeling that religion is a very important factor. Is it so important?

When anybody asks me how many employees are there in my office, I saw 4000 employees are there. I don't say 500 Muslims, 200 Catholics, 100 Hindus and so on.

I'm sorry but this sounds quite odd when somebody discriminates in terms of religion/caste/country/culture. If a person is injured on the road, I don't ask them what religion they belong to as first they are human beings.

I don't like my own religion as except me, 90% of catholics give importance to the word RELIGION. I don't agree with their views nor their beliefs. I asked a priest to bless my grandmother's grave and he said it's not his job. From that day, I felt there's no use of being a catholic or belong to any other religion as all they care is for themselves. If you are a good human being, I am your friend else not.

All Gods are one. No matter how God looks like.

I didn't say religion is important factor in school and/or office. I said in general how the school is when he mentioned about it. I don't discriminate people because of religion. I have friends from most religions. Anyway, come back to the topic.

[Aggressor66]

Internet is the most powerful invention of our time, it has changed the game just like the wheel and agriculture did for mankind. Any attempt to make internet dependent of fancies and greed of politicians and big corporate houses will defeat the very purpose of internet.
Net neutrality is really important for India like developing country.

[panju1]

Internet is the most powerful invention of our time, it has changed the game just like the wheel and agriculture did for mankind. Any attempt to make internet dependent of fancies and greed of politicians and big corporate houses will defeat the very purpose of internet.
Net neutrality is really important for India like developing country.

Public opinion (at least among the internet class) is really in favour of net neutrality.
The government has to weigh public opinion against the telcos' money.
Net neutrality may be important, but you can't be sure that the government will make the right decision. 

[zeraTunerse]

Net Neutrality in India is simply not possible. The Internet Service Provider Companies charges very high prices as compared to other countries. And the reason is India's Population is mostly consist of youth and youth is so addicted to internet that they are ready to pay even high rates and companies are taking benefits of it.

[nerFohanzo]

Internet is the most powerful invention of our time, it has changed the game just like the wheel and agriculture did for mankind. Any attempt to make internet dependent of fancies and greed of politicians and big corporate houses will defeat the very purpose of internet.
Net neutrality is really important for India like developing country.

Yup that's true that net neutrality is very much important for the developing country like India as now everything works on internet but due to Government of India participation in it the service providers are charging very heavy rates as compared to other countries which should be lowered down.

[stromma44]

Internet is the most powerful invention of our time, it has changed the game just like the wheel and agriculture did for mankind. Any attempt to make internet dependent of fancies and greed of politicians and big corporate houses will defeat the very purpose of internet.
Net neutrality is really important for India like developing country.

Yup that's true that net neutrality is very much important for the developing country like India as now everything works on internet but due to Government of India participation in it the service providers are charging very heavy rates as compared to other countries which should be lowered down.

Yeah Indians are being cheated by the service providers as they are charging them very heavily and in return not providing the best services possible and now the scenario is everything goes in hand to hand with internet so the consumers are even ready to pay more for the services.

[bryant.coleman]

Yeah Indians are being cheated by the service providers as they are charging them very heavily and in return not providing the best services possible and now the scenario is everything goes in hand to hand with internet so the consumers are even ready to pay more for the services.

There are two major reasons for this.

A. Taxes - Taxes are extreme. Service Tax, VAT, Spectrum fee, Corporate tax.etc will account for more than 75% of the broadband bill in India.

B. Lack of competition - There are only a dozen or so broadband providers in India, and all of them are pathetic in providing the basic services.

Unless someone organizes mass protests against this system, nothing is going to change.

[wearepoor]

Yeah Indians are being cheated by the service providers as they are charging them very heavily and in return not providing the best services possible and now the scenario is everything goes in hand to hand with internet so the consumers are even ready to pay more for the services.

There are two major reasons for this.

A. Taxes - Taxes are extreme. Service Tax, VAT, Spectrum fee, Corporate tax.etc will account for more than 75% of the broadband bill in India.

B. Lack of competition - There are only a dozen or so broadband providers in India, and all of them are pathetic in providing the basic services.

Unless someone organizes mass protests against this system, nothing is going to change.

Yeah A battle that could decide the future of Internet in India is being fought online, between telecom users and operators. In less than a week more than 8 lacs Indians have sent emails to India's telecom regulator demanding a free and fair internet services.

Net neutrality means service providers should treat all traffic equally. Users should be able to access all websites at same speed and same cost.