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Author Topic: A simple question "Is it against the forum rules make "double posting" ?  (Read 2085 times)
lophie
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April 12, 2015, 05:09:40 PM
 #21

Hey guys,

I don't want to argue badly (or make a sort of fight here) so please keep 'peaceful' the discussion. Yesterday in the advcash service discussion I have posted two messages in a row -- double posting (* and a mod merged them in one post , saying someone reported my posts). I didn't think it was against the forum rules, I have made only to make comfortable the reading of those posts.

Now I would like to ask what's wrong in make consecutive posts (not every quote= new post - but maybe 2-3 quotes in a post and other 1-2 quotes in other post)? Is it against the forum rules?


Thanks for the attention, and I want to reply again "please keep 'peaceful' this thread"


*edit

Example please? Maybe because they are consecutive without someone posting in between. Makes sense since you could have just ecited the last post you made.

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April 12, 2015, 05:30:15 PM
 #22

Hey guys,

I don't want to argue badly (or make a sort of fight here) so please keep 'peaceful' the discussion. Yesterday in the advcash service discussion I have posted two messages in a row -- double posting (* and a mod merged them in one post , saying someone reported my posts). I didn't think it was against the forum rules, I have made only to make comfortable the reading of those posts.

Now I would like to ask what's wrong in make consecutive posts (not every quote= new post - but maybe 2-3 quotes in a post and other 1-2 quotes in other post)? Is it against the forum rules?


Thanks for the attention, and I want to reply again "please keep 'peaceful' this thread"


*edit

Example please? Maybe because they are consecutive without someone posting in between. Makes sense since you could have just ecited the last post you made.

Example for my two posts in a row (double posting)? Only that in the advcash thread, I don't remember to posted other times in this way (because I always reply to 2-3 quotes in one post, yesterday I don't felt to post all in one message so I have separated in two posts).
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April 12, 2015, 05:38:04 PM
 #23

I have long speculated that he has figured out the formula that theymos uses to calculate how much each moderator gets from the forum ad sales, and that grue pads his moderator activity to increase his payout. If you exclude the amount that BadBear gets, then grue makes well over 2x the amount that the next highest paid moderator gets on a consistent basis. The problem is that this is very difficult to prove as most of the information needed to prove this is unavailable to me.

It's unavailable to everyone but theymos but there's probably not much to figure out - handle a lot of reports / move threads and get paid for them. Theymos has stated before that deleting posts doesn't account for much (which is probably a good idea) and I delete a hell of a lot of bumps in the marketplace and don't get paid any more for them so that's likely not an issue. I think the mod money that is allocated is capped to certain staff levels. Patrollers seem to get a max of around 2btc or so if they're very active whereas very active Globals like grue and BadBear get near or around 8btc (though I believe it's dished out by the dollar value so it will fluctuate from time to time but the payments in comparison are roughly the same). I've always got the same even when when I got promoted from Patroller to both mod of the entire Marketplace and Bitcoin Discussion. I must be handling at least double of what I was yet I still get the same and the same as when I was just a patroller and the same as other very active patrollers or mods of a local board so I reckon it's just capped by staff position. It would be interesting to see who handles the most reports / makes the most mod actions but maybe then people could game the system but there doesn't seem much that active mods could do to get more if they're already hitting their staff level thresholds etc.

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April 12, 2015, 05:46:17 PM
 #24

I have long speculated that he has figured out the formula that theymos uses to calculate how much each moderator gets from the forum ad sales, and that grue pads his moderator activity to increase his payout. If you exclude the amount that BadBear gets, then grue makes well over 2x the amount that the next highest paid moderator gets on a consistent basis. The problem is that this is very difficult to prove as most of the information needed to prove this is unavailable to me.

It's unavailable to everyone but theymos but there's probably not much to figure out - handle a lot of reports / move threads and get paid for them. Theymos has stated before that deleting posts doesn't account for much (which is probably a good idea) and I delete a hell of a lot of bumps in the marketplace and don't get paid any more for them so that's likely not an issue. I think the mod money that is allocated is capped to certain staff levels. Patrollers seem to get a max of around 2btc or so if they're very active whereas very active Globals like grue and BadBear get near or around 8btc (though I believe it's dished out by the dollar value so it will fluctuate from time to time but the payments in comparison are roughly the same). I've always got the same even when when I got promoted from Patroller to both mod of the entire Marketplace and Bitcoin Discussion. I must be handling at least double of what I was yet I still get the same and the same as when I was just a patroller and the same as other very active patrollers or mods of a local board so I reckon it's just capped by staff position. It would be interesting to see who handles the most reports / makes the most mod actions but maybe then people could game the system but there doesn't seem much that active mods could do to get more if they're already hitting their staff level thresholds etc.



May I ask you if you are doing the mod because you like it or because you are paid for moderate your sections?
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April 12, 2015, 05:55:55 PM
 #25

I have long speculated that he has figured out the formula that theymos uses to calculate how much each moderator gets from the forum ad sales, and that grue pads his moderator activity to increase his payout. If you exclude the amount that BadBear gets, then grue makes well over 2x the amount that the next highest paid moderator gets on a consistent basis. The problem is that this is very difficult to prove as most of the information needed to prove this is unavailable to me.

It's unavailable to everyone but theymos but there's probably not much to figure out - handle a lot of reports / move threads and get paid for them. Theymos has stated before that deleting posts doesn't account for much (which is probably a good idea) and I delete a hell of a lot of bumps in the marketplace and don't get paid any more for them so that's likely not an issue. I think the mod money that is allocated is capped to certain staff levels. Patrollers seem to get a max of around 2btc or so if they're very active whereas very active Globals like grue and BadBear get near or around 8btc (though I believe it's dished out by the dollar value so it will fluctuate from time to time but the payments in comparison are roughly the same). I've always got the same even when when I got promoted from Patroller to both mod of the entire Marketplace and Bitcoin Discussion. I must be handling at least double of what I was yet I still get the same and the same as when I was just a patroller and the same as other very active patrollers or mods of a local board so I reckon it's just capped by staff position. It would be interesting to see who handles the most reports / makes the most mod actions but maybe then people could game the system but there doesn't seem much that active mods could do to get more if they're already hitting their staff level thresholds etc.
The total payment to all of the moderators is 25% of the forum ad sales, so if the ads sell for a higher amount then the mods as a whole will get more.

The exact formula is secret, although if you keep track of what actions you take and how much you are paid then you should be able to figure out what actions are worth the most and taking those kinds of actions even when they might not be necessary. For example sending a PM to someone in relation to a moderation (e.g. being from a moderator as a moderator) likely causes that moderator action to be "worth" more or is separately worth something in itself. One of my alts once had one of it's posts deleted when I replied to a post of Bruno about something that grue claimed was off topic, this was far from a trend and was probably unnecessary to receive a PM about it, however I got a PM around the time the post was deleted saying that my post was deleted because it was a reply to an off topic post.

I would think that the payment is not based on responsibilities, but rather by actions taken. It is just that a higher ranking staff member would have more opportunities to take additional actions, and potentially more valuable actions.

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April 12, 2015, 06:01:18 PM
 #26

....
A quick question because I'm just curious on this one (this is an off-topic question but can you answer this question?). How do you guys became mods of this forum? I've been thinking about it for too long. Cheesy

Please guys can we stay on topic? Thanks. If you want information of how to become a mod (or how they became mod) open your own thread here in the meta section.
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April 12, 2015, 06:10:12 PM
 #27

The exact formula is secret, although if you keep track of what actions you take and how much you are paid then you should be able to figure out what actions are worth the most and taking those kinds of actions even when they might not be necessary. For example sending a PM to someone in relation to a moderation (e.g. being from a moderator as a moderator) likely causes that moderator action to be "worth" more or is separately worth something in itself. One of my alts once had one of it's posts deleted when I replied to a post of Bruno about something that grue claimed was off topic, this was far from a trend and was probably unnecessary to receive a PM about it, however I got a PM around the time the post was deleted saying that my post was deleted because it was a reply to an off topic post.

I would think that the payment is not based on responsibilities, but rather by actions taken. It is just that a higher ranking staff member would have more opportunities to take additional actions, and potentially more valuable actions.

Except it's not really possible as I explained above. I handle too many reports to count and I'm sure I could probably handle much less but still get paid the same seeing as I more or less get the same every month (or didn't get any more after I got promoted so clearly there is a limit or threshold based on staff rank and I'm hitting it). Very active patrollers or mods of local boards like me and Eal got pretty much exactly the same but even after I got made mod of the entire Marketplace and Bitcoin Discussion and my workload must have at least doubled but yet we still get paid pretty much the same.

A quick question because I'm just curious on this one (this is an off-topic question but can you answer this question?). How do you guys became mods of this forum? I've been thinking about it for too long. Cheesy

Report a lot of posts and be a very active member of the community and theymos may ask you eventually.

May I ask you if you are doing the mod because you like it or because you are paid for moderate your sections?

I don't think any of us mods get our jollies from moderating and saying we like it would be a bit sadomasochistic I think Cheesy but the payment is just a nice bonus for the work that we put in and I very much appreciate it as I'm sure many mods would also agree. I'm not complaining if that's what it looks like. Just stating the pay is likely capped via mod rank.

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April 12, 2015, 06:26:09 PM
 #28

The exact formula is secret, although if you keep track of what actions you take and how much you are paid then you should be able to figure out what actions are worth the most and taking those kinds of actions even when they might not be necessary. For example sending a PM to someone in relation to a moderation (e.g. being from a moderator as a moderator) likely causes that moderator action to be "worth" more or is separately worth something in itself. One of my alts once had one of it's posts deleted when I replied to a post of Bruno about something that grue claimed was off topic, this was far from a trend and was probably unnecessary to receive a PM about it, however I got a PM around the time the post was deleted saying that my post was deleted because it was a reply to an off topic post.

I would think that the payment is not based on responsibilities, but rather by actions taken. It is just that a higher ranking staff member would have more opportunities to take additional actions, and potentially more valuable actions.

Except it's not really possible as I explained above. I handle too many reports to count and I'm sure I could probably handle much less but still get paid the same seeing as I more or less get the same every month (or didn't get any more after I got promoted so clearly there is a limit or threshold based on staff rank and I'm hitting it). Very active patrollers or mods of local boards like me and Eal got pretty much exactly the same but even after I got made mod of the entire Marketplace and Bitcoin Discussion and my workload must have at least doubled but yet we still get paid pretty much the same.
You could automate the counting of actions taken in a number of ways. That wouldn't be very hard because a good number of moderator functions require you to visit a page within the forum that has a special URL so you could just develop a bot to count each time you visit a webpage that has '?action=deletemsg" in the URL for deleting posts.

It is possible that payment is capped on an action basis. So for example you can only earn a max of "x" for deleting posts, a may of "y" for moving threads, ect. So if you are unable to take additional actions that you were not previously able to do (I don't think going from patroller to moderator of certain sections allows you to take additional actions) then your max payment would remain the same (assuming that payments are in fact capped in some way). I do think that moderators of various sections should probably receive an additional payment for the added responsibility.

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April 12, 2015, 08:00:37 PM
 #29

-snip-
Is it against the forum rules?

I dont think so, well in fact I know its not against the rules, because its not listed as a rule. The question is whether the post is spam or not and this is unrelated to whether you quote a single person or multiple. I think its personal preference. IIRC doog said that he stopped advertising his signature because he was afraid to get a ban because of said posting style. Thats the crux, if you sell your signature you will have a hard time arguing that its just your posting style, esp. if you get paid per post.



The exact formula is secret, although if you keep track of what actions you take and how much you are paid then you should be able to figure out what actions are worth the most and taking those kinds of actions even when they might not be necessary. For example sending a PM to someone in relation to a moderation (e.g. being from a moderator as a moderator) likely causes that moderator action to be "worth" more or is separately worth something in itself. One of my alts once had one of it's posts deleted when I replied to a post of Bruno about something that grue claimed was off topic, this was far from a trend and was probably unnecessary to receive a PM about it, however I got a PM around the time the post was deleted saying that my post was deleted because it was a reply to an off topic post.

I would think that the payment is not based on responsibilities, but rather by actions taken. It is just that a higher ranking staff member would have more opportunities to take additional actions, and potentially more valuable actions.

Except it's not really possible as I explained above. I handle too many reports to count and I'm sure I could probably handle much less but still get paid the same seeing as I more or less get the same every month (or didn't get any more after I got promoted so clearly there is a limit or threshold based on staff rank and I'm hitting it). Very active patrollers or mods of local boards like me and Eal got pretty much exactly the same but even after I got made mod of the entire Marketplace and Bitcoin Discussion and my workload must have at least doubled but yet we still get paid pretty much the same.
You could automate the counting of actions taken in a number of ways. That wouldn't be very hard because a good number of moderator functions require you to visit a page within the forum that has a special URL so you could just develop a bot to count each time you visit a webpage that has '?action=deletemsg" in the URL for deleting posts.

It is possible that payment is capped on an action basis. So for example you can only earn a max of "x" for deleting posts, a may of "y" for moving threads, ect. So if you are unable to take additional actions that you were not previously able to do (I don't think going from patroller to moderator of certain sections allows you to take additional actions) then your max payment would remain the same (assuming that payments are in fact capped in some way). I do think that moderators of various sections should probably receive an additional payment for the added responsibility.

I think this is a very fascinating topic, but should be discussed elsewhere.
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April 12, 2015, 08:08:10 PM
 #30

-snip-
Is it against the forum rules?

I dont think so, well in fact I know its not against the rules, because its not listed as a rule. The question is whether the post is spam or not and this is unrelated to whether you quote a single person or multiple. I think its personal preference. IIRC doog said that he stopped advertising his signature because he was afraid to get a ban because of said posting style. Thats the crux, if you sell your signature you will have a hard time arguing that its just your posting style, esp. if you get paid per post.
....

So the problem is only because I am selling my signature space to bit-x.com? If I didn't wear a signature my two posts would have not been removed, this is very "insane". Only because they are paying me for my posts I can't write 2 posts in a row, but the signature campaign is not against the forum rules and those two posts are not to be considered spam or insubstantial so why all this?

I hope you understand me, this is really illogical. Sorry guys , if I seem arrogant but this is my point of view (and maybe I am wrong, who knows?).
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April 12, 2015, 08:21:48 PM
 #31

-snip-
Is it against the forum rules?

I dont think so, well in fact I know its not against the rules, because its not listed as a rule. The question is whether the post is spam or not and this is unrelated to whether you quote a single person or multiple. I think its personal preference. IIRC doog said that he stopped advertising his signature because he was afraid to get a ban because of said posting style. Thats the crux, if you sell your signature you will have a hard time arguing that its just your posting style, esp. if you get paid per post.
....

So the problem is only because I am selling my signature space to bit-x.com? If I didn't wear a signature my two posts would have not been removed, this is very "insane". Only because they are paying me for my posts I can't write 2 posts in a row, but the signature campaign is not against the forum rules and those two posts are not to be considered spam or insubstantial so why all this?

I hope you understand me, this is really illogical. Sorry guys , if I seem arrogant but this is my point of view (and maybe I am wrong, who knows?).

Sounds like somebody is preparing for his own little banishment dance...How quickly the mighty have fallen Tongue

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April 12, 2015, 08:24:44 PM
 #32

-snip-
Is it against the forum rules?

I dont think so, well in fact I know its not against the rules, because its not listed as a rule. The question is whether the post is spam or not and this is unrelated to whether you quote a single person or multiple. I think its personal preference. IIRC doog said that he stopped advertising his signature because he was afraid to get a ban because of said posting style. Thats the crux, if you sell your signature you will have a hard time arguing that its just your posting style, esp. if you get paid per post.
....

So the problem is only because I am selling my signature space to bit-x.com? If I didn't wear a signature my two posts would have not been removed, this is very "insane". Only because they are paying me for my posts I can't write 2 posts in a row, but the signature campaign is not against the forum rules and those two posts are not to be considered spam or insubstantial so why all this?

No, not exactly. I dont think there is a problem per se with that posting style. Its like posting in offtopic, its perfectly fine. Its just that when there is a judgement to be made the fact that you have a paid signature might have an influence on the judgement. People will certainly report you more often because you sell your signature. People will see these posts and think "is that just for the extra x satoshi?". If there is no paid signature these thoughts just dont come up, because there is no reason to doubt your motives.

I hope you understand me, this is really illogical. Sorry guys , if I seem arrogant but this is my point of view (and maybe I am wrong, who knows?).

I understand you perfectly fine. Its like: there is no problem, just dont do it. Im afraid thats what we have to live with. I think its what those spamming brought on the campaigns and those participating. If it feels too restrictive there is always an easy exit.
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April 12, 2015, 08:44:28 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2015, 09:09:11 PM by Muhammed Zakir
 #33

I was afraid when I started posting in Politics & Society. thebitcoinquiz.com recently complained about this behavior in BIT-X.com signature campaign thread.

Most of the posts I need to reply needs to be answered separately. Else, it will become too messy and too long. For example, see recent double posts of mine[1], I don't know how it can answers the questions if it is merged rather than making it more confusing. Although this is the case, as long as we wear paid signatures, we will see these type of actions(no offence, no complains).

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=888757.msg11068008#msg11068008

Edit: Corrected typos and added few words.

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April 12, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
 #34

...
Sounds like somebody is preparing for his own little banishment dance...How quickly the mighty have fallen Tongue

No, I will (obviously) will not start my own little banishment dance  Grin.


-snip-
Is it against the forum rules?

I dont think so, well in fact I know its not against the rules, because its not listed as a rule. The question is whether the post is spam or not and this is unrelated to whether you quote a single person or multiple. I think its personal preference. IIRC doog said that he stopped advertising his signature because he was afraid to get a ban because of said posting style. Thats the crux, if you sell your signature you will have a hard time arguing that its just your posting style, esp. if you get paid per post.
....

So the problem is only because I am selling my signature space to bit-x.com? If I didn't wear a signature my two posts would have not been removed, this is very "insane". Only because they are paying me for my posts I can't write 2 posts in a row, but the signature campaign is not against the forum rules and those two posts are not to be considered spam or insubstantial so why all this?

No, not exactly. I dont think there is a problem per se with that posting style. Its like posting in offtopic, its perfectly fine. Its just that when there is a judgement to be made the fact that you have a paid signature might have an influence on the judgement. People will certainly report you more often because you sell your signature. People will see these posts and think "is that just for the extra x satoshi?". If there is no paid signature these thoughts just dont come up, because there is no reason to doubt your motives.

Yes you are right, the unique problem is signature campaign but if the post are not spammy or insubstantial I don't see the reason to delete it or merge. It is my personal choice to make two posts (attached in seconds, for make comfortable the legibility) and as you ( & me) said if I had not a signature I am sure my post would have not been merged Wink.


I hope you understand me, this is really illogical. Sorry guys , if I seem arrogant but this is my point of view (and maybe I am wrong, who knows?).

I understand you perfectly fine. Its like: there is no problem, just dont do it. Im afraid thats what we have to live with. I think its what those spamming brought on the campaigns and those participating. If it feels too restrictive there is always an easy exit.


I will not write 2 posts in a row anymore (also if it is not against the rules) but if I will 'catch' or seen an user do the same will report his posts for sure (I have already reported an user and I would like to see if his posts will be merged or not).
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April 12, 2015, 08:54:54 PM
 #35

So you disagree with the practice of moderators merging posts, but plan to encourage it by reporting double posts to them from now on?

I see...

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April 12, 2015, 09:02:33 PM
 #36

So you disagree with the practice of moderators merging posts, but plan to encourage it by reporting double posts to them from now on?

I see...

No, it would seem but it is not so. A disagree with the practice of "merge" because it is not against the forum rules write two posts in a row (for make comfortable the legibility). If they will say : yes it is against the forum rules then no one (me toom or only who is wearing a sig ad) should write two posts in a row anymore but they cannot do it only because I am (or someone else) wearing a sig ad; this is the real insane thought behind the scene.


Again, if there is not the spam case or those two posts were not insubstantial I don't see the reason.


Sorry again, I want only discuss in a peaceful way. Thanks again for the attention.
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April 13, 2015, 12:48:55 AM
 #37

I think if you wear a paid signature you are held to a higher standard for things like this. Since so many people pad their counts it is automatically assumed paid sig + double posts = padding. I bet if you did not have a paid signature it would not have been reported/merged.
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April 13, 2015, 12:53:59 AM
 #38

It's not really necessary to be honest. I'm not really buying the whole length thing. I often quote many people I want to reply to in one post. Why would you need to double post? The only way I can see it being valid is if a thread hasn't been replied to and you need to bump it for whatever reason.

i often scroll through threads replying to each entry on its own (but i dont have any sig ad)

but imho you are right with the length of one post. i dont see a reason to split that.

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April 13, 2015, 09:04:00 AM
 #39

I think if you wear a paid signature you are held to a higher standard for things like this. Since so many people pad their counts it is automatically assumed paid sig + double posts = padding. I bet if you did not have a paid signature it would not have been reported/merged.

So as I said previously the real problem is the sig ad, if someone without it would have made the same thing I'm sure their posts have not been touched; but it is not against the forum rules write two post in a row (attached in seconds) and especially to make comfortable the legibility and making understand the user who asked a question.

This is the illogical thing here.
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April 13, 2015, 11:04:57 AM
 #40

I've had two occasions where I made a thread, somebody replied to it, and then they deleted their post after I had posted a response to it. This made it look like I double posted when it wasn't the case before. One solution could have been to delete the post. However, if the new post adds to the discussion and introduces new ideas to the thread then another solution could have been to delete the post and merge it with the post above it. In both cases, I simply left it alone and nothing happened afterwards.

One thing that definitely irks me when quoting multiple posts is when part of your answer is another quote. Since quote boxes look identical, it can be hard to tell where the reply ends and a new one begins.

Example:

<quote 1 from thread>
blah blah.
<quote 2 from thread>
blah blah. see:
<quote from another thread>
blah blah. also see:
<quote from another thread>
<quote 3 from thread>
blah blah. see:
<quote from another thread>

Other than that, I'm not sure what the benefit would be of splitting a long post into two posts though. The end result would be the same except now there would be a big space in between containing your signature, post title, etc. which readers would simply skim over. A single long post could be made more readable by have spacing or differently sized headings to achieve the same effect.

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