Beware of CoinBase

[StevenS]

Coinbase basically has a monopoly over the US bitcoin market. There may be 1 or 2 other options like Circle and CampBX but their volume is limited to a fraction of Coinbase volume.

Stripe.com, a credit card processor, now takes bitcoin as well.

[Ron~Popeil]

I use circle or local bit coins. Coinbase is the paypal of bitcoin. I use bitpay for business transactions.

I want to be done with coinbase and circle but not sure what the options would be. Granted, this is the first real issue I've had and I'm not a trader so I'm not dealing in high volume transactions...my issue is when I'm ready to move my money, I have to wait on them to get around to it.

My question is if there's an option with bitpay, say I set up an option on my own website, my merchant account, and just 'buy' some widget thing for whatever the amount is I want to buy bitcoin, do it through bitpay and then move it to a wallet from bitpay. Would that work or would they pitch a hissy fit? Or would it even be worthwhile to do?

I need options

I am not sure there is currently a way around the wait other than local bitcoins. If you have traders in your area you can sell and buy in person but pretty much any exchange is going to send your funds through the ach system so you will have that wait.

[Victor Beckham]

I use circle or local bit coins. Coinbase is the paypal of bitcoin. I use bitpay for business transactions.

I want to be done with coinbase and circle but not sure what the options would be. Granted, this is the first real issue I've had and I'm not a trader so I'm not dealing in high volume transactions...my issue is when I'm ready to move my money, I have to wait on them to get around to it.

My question is if there's an option with bitpay, say I set up an option on my own website, my merchant account, and just 'buy' some widget thing for whatever the amount is I want to buy bitcoin, do it through bitpay and then move it to a wallet from bitpay. Would that work or would they pitch a hissy fit? Or would it even be worthwhile to do?

I need options

I am not sure there is currently a way around the wait other than local bitcoins. If you have traders in your area you can sell and buy in person but pretty much any exchange is going to send your funds through the ach system so you will have that wait.

You may try out www.100bit.co.in, but the volume is still low.

[kilter71]

Well I recently sold some thousands in BTC for fiat and the fiat has showed in my account.  Someone said something about only a few thousand in a month will get you banned, I'm hoping I survive...Bummer there's no other EASY way to sell thousands in BTC for fiat.  Everything else requires a lot more work, it seems to me (like localbitcoins).

[Lexi Price]

Some users may prefer the convenience of a regulated online exchange.  If it gets them into Bitcoin, while giving them a feeling confidence and security, that would be beneficial.

Many of us prefer to use other methods that do not require sharing personal financial information.

This is the internet.  No one has a monopoly.

I don't mind a responsible base of regulation. I'm not full on "anti regulation." But it shouldn't be worse than the banks and paypal and that's what both coinbase and circle. As mentioned, paypal didn't require a license or scans of crap or a selfie. My bank did use the license but I get that. I really truly hope there are serious devs out there who are able to come up with a legitimate means of decentralization and no need for regulation.

[kilter71]

Well I recently sold some thousands in BTC for fiat and the fiat has showed in my account.  Someone said something about only a few thousand in a month will get you banned, I'm hoping I survive...Bummer there's no other EASY way to sell thousands in BTC for fiat.  Everything else requires a lot more work, it seems to me (like localbitcoins).

LBC isn't that much work, plus you'll get a higher price. You just post an ad and meet up somewhere with the buyer. Or they can deposit the payment directly to your bank account.

I'm not asking for specifics because I don't want to invade your privacy.  But can you give me a rough estimate of how much BTC I can sell for fiat, and how long it takes?  I'd imagine it's mostly like people want to buy less than 1 BTC worth at a time, so it would take a while to sell it.  Whereas on Coinbase it's $3k at a time (well, until I maybe get banned?).  Thanks.

[btcton]

Don't see any issue with the disclaimer.  Coinbase is just protecting their operations, and making sure their customers operate within a correct regulatory framework from a Money transmitter standpoint.

Coinbase has done more to mainstream and legitimize Bitcoin, then any of those jerks in the bankrupt and corrupt Bitcoin Foundation.

Basically this. They have also spread it around by providing a similar service to BitPay's. A few decently-known website accept it as a payment method.

[johnyj]

Those limits are miserable comparing to bitstamp/bitfinex

[grahvity]

https://twitter.com/grahvity/status/588379459499077633

@Coinbase draws a fuzzy, gray line between business & personal use https://t.co/2zoOWsEPNx #bitcoin

 Unsuspecting users oughtta know.

[StevenS]

I'm not asking for specifics because I don't want to invade your privacy.  But can you give me a rough estimate of how much BTC I can sell for fiat, and how long it takes?  I'd imagine it's mostly like people want to buy less than 1 BTC worth at a time, so it would take a while to sell it.

Here's an example from LocalBitcoins.com.
"Brian", somewhere in the US, will buy up to $9500 of your bitcoin at $227/BTC. After you fund the trade, he will make a deposit into your bank account (at Bank of America, TD Bank, or Citibank).

[SpanishSoldier]

Coinbase basically has a monopoly over the US bitcoin market. There may be 1 or 2 other options like Circle and CampBX but their volume is limited to a fraction of Coinbase volume. I wonder if an antitrust lawsuit could be filed against them, why is there no real competition in the US?

Circle will catch up.

I call bullshit. That's a completely trivial statement that does not respond in any meaningful way to my claim that Coinbase IS a monopoly. I'm not claiming that they'll be a monopoly for all future time. In any case, what makes you think Circle will catch up? Their $2500 per week limit has not changed for a very long time (in crypto time) and as far as I know there is no indication that it will be changing. Do you have some info that you're basing your claim on or are you just pulling it out of your ass?

I'm saying that (right now) Coinbase has a de facto monopoly over the US bitcoin market. Maybe that will change in the future, I don't know, but I'm talking about the present. I'm citing facts to back my claim, everyone who has disagreed with me in this thread has either mentioned non-entity exchanges or said something nonsensical.

Can you sue Google for having De-facto monopoly over US search market ?

Well I don't think Google has a monopoly of internet searches, what nonsense. There are plenty of other search engines that you can use for free without limits on usage, and I've never heard of Google banning individuals because they don't like how they're using the their search engine. This is not the case with bitcoin exchanges. Coinbase maintains unfair advantages over other US exchanges by having much higher purchase limites and even, arguably, putting other exchanges (like Buttercoin recetly) out of business. How do they do this? Well that's as shrouded in secrecy as who their banking partners are, which remains unknown. However it seems obvious to me that they maintain their monopoly through shady means just like the banks do.

Quick follow-up: it looks like the EU has decided that Google IS a monopoly, not over searches in general but shopping results:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/15/google-faces-antitrust-action-from-eu-competition-watchdog

The European Union has accused Google of cheating competitors by distorting internet search results in favour of its own shopping service, as antitrust charges were filed against its Android mobile operating system.

Imagine such charges being filed in the US, not happening this decade. The Justice Department wasn't even willing to prosecute bankers for massive fraud that they admitted to! There's basically no longer any antitrust law in the US so Coinbase gets a free pass on its MONOPOLY.

Well... I knew this and that is why I specified US and did not reply to your earlier post where u called it a nonsense.

[ToshiOcean]

Coinbase is a reasonable option for casual Bitcoin use.
I say;
* Have the usual fiat accounts (credit cards, debit cards, checking etc.).
* Have a PayPal account (with their debit card - which is handy)
* Have a Bitcoin account established and verified (meaning ready-to-go for buying/selling legal goods and services).
Coinbase makes no pretense about their service. Above board, not-anonymous, reasonable-volume transactions that don't look like you're running boxcars full of guns and heroine.

[duckydonald]

maybe is time for another alt coin to take the lead, so the govs will waste more money and time going after a numbers of times, what about a coin that changes it name?

[Hydros]

Honestly Coinbase kind of defeats the purpose of Bitcoin and it puts a centralized organization in control of your coins. Never keep a large amount of coins in your Coinbase wallet.

[wadili89]

you need to read T.O.S of a company before using them, still you have choice to choss if you want to use them or not

[chopstick]

Personally, I like coinbase and think they provide a quality service.

The guvament is up coinbase's ass with potential FINCEN violations so they are complying as best they can to stay in business.

For the casual user, this should not be a problem.

If you guys want bitcoins completely anonymous, then don't use an exchange or coinbase, use localbitcoins.com and be prepared to pay a hefty fee. And by the way, it's a big risk for BTC sellers to sell >3k worth of BTC to someone anonymously without collecting ID and SSN, cause you could get charged for money laundering if you don't put certain controls in place, and you make a habit of doing this.

I know you guys want free and unregulated coin where everyone can get BTC anonymously for zero fees and no government interference. But it's just NOT going to happen... and it's not coinbases fault either. If you had a company that was generating millions of $ in profit, would you give it all up and potentially go to jail just so you could give the Gov't the finger?

But you can still use certain services to remain anon and avoid centralized services if you wish.

[StevenS]

If you guys want bitcoins completely anonymous, then don't use an exchange or coinbase, use localbitcoins.com and be prepared to pay a hefty fee.

What is your definition of "hefty fee?" I buy bitcoin for cash using localbitcoins.com and I pay the same rate as Bitstamp + 1%. Is that "hefty?"
(Albeit, I only buy fairly small amounts.)

[chopstick]

If you buy with cash deposit then +5-6% is probably about where you can get in at. Not really that hefty for most. If you use other methods it can get higher.

[johnyj]

need more competitors

[Lexi Price]

So this is the price users have to pay for using their "regulated" exchange/wallet? Welcome to the "paypal" of bitcoin

hahahahahahaaaaaaa ... absolutely spot on, hahahaaaa

As much as I HATE paypal, and tried in all earnest to get away from them, I simply can't let them go.  I was able to let go of Ebay after some years of trying -- suffered heavy ebay withdrawal symptoms afterwards. hahahaaa

As for Coinbase I only have one account with them and don't use the exchange so I can't really see it growing on me.  

On the other side of things, they are essentially saying don't use them for business unless you have a business account.   They really don't want to be sucked into any fed investigation over nonsense.  Coinbase is no Paypal, and even paypal doesn't want to be dragged into anything that would invite the feds to look over their books.

Not happy about the July 2015 policy changes on intellectual property so I broke up with PayPal for good.

I've been using Square (square.com) and they have modified their cash app to now include an option for business transactions to be made p2p, and it's free. And they are bitcoin friendly. Check https://cash.me/ and Square main.