Quickseller, trust abuse, innacurate negative ratings, unprofesional escrow...

[worhiper_-_]

...and probably lots of sockpuppet accounts but Badbear gives Quickseller a pass.

The user has left me a false negative trust report. I never reached an agreement with him.

This is what went down.

1. I message him with terms I set for a trade
2. Other party sends me and quickseller a message telling him he agrees on my terms I set for the escrow
3. Quickseller sends me his version of terms, that are unrelated to the terms I had set and agreeded with the other trader asking me to agree on his terms
4. I message quickseller poiting this out
5. He tells me he's not willing to change HIS terms although I and the other trader had agreeded on other terms and wanted him to honor them
6. I decline to complete the trade using him as escrow

We're now here

Short for what I'd consider fair: him to review the rating to something more accurate/change it to a comment saying that he personally doesn't trust me/remove the rating.



PS:
Most likely that he's going to make a huge rant about how what I say is not true and I deserve his trust rating. Well I don't really want to bother with this much anyway. I don't consider him a scammer, I just feel that things are simple, I never reached an agreement with him, therefore his rating is false. I'd consider him making a comment saying that he personally doesn't trust me more justified. Also I didn't scam anyone, nor tried too. But you're more likely to believe him, you see, he's trusted.

[camelson]

Can you tell as what was your version of terms and what was quicksellar version?

[worhiper_-_]

I don't want to bother with this much. Why not ask quickseller? He has all his messages, my terms were in the initial message to him. A message that was received by him and the other trader.

He replyied with some terms that didn't seem to be well optimised to our trade, I think that part of it was even copy pasted. He made thing overly complicated and in result angered me enough to cancel the deal before reaching an agreement with him as the escrower.

[camelson]

I don't want to bother with this much. Why not ask quickseller? He has all his messages, my terms were in the initial message to him. A message that was received by him and the other trader.

He replyied with some terms that didn't seem to be well optimised to our trade, I think that part of it was even copy pasted. He made thing overly complicated and in result angered me enough to cancel the deal before reaching an agreement with him as the escrower.

Quickseller is good guy. If you get that red trust he must have good reason. You dont wanna give proof this is ok. Bye and gl.

[worhiper_-_]

I don't want to bother with this much. Why not ask quickseller? He has all his messages, my terms were in the initial message to him. A message that was received by him and the other trader.

He replyied with some terms that didn't seem to be well optimised to our trade, I think that part of it was even copy pasted. He made thing overly complicated and in result angered me enough to cancel the deal before reaching an agreement with him as the escrower.

Quickseller is good guy. If you get that red trust he must have good reason. You dont wanna give proof this is ok. Bye and gl.

I don't doubtthat he's a good guy. I'm not even saying that he's a scammer. But don't I have the right to be unsatisfied with his service? People make mistakes, I felt that his service was unprofesional with my case and didn't want to use his services after getting angry.

He has the record of the messages, I invite him to post the first three messages that the three parties involved exchanged. Me, the trader and him. First message is me setting the terms. Second message is the trader confiming that he agrees while replying to both participants. Third message is quickseller giving us his custom terms.

I saw his terms, got angry and more angry after exchanging PMs with quickseller. Ultimately declined the deal.

He claims we reached an agreement, we didn't.

[worhiper_-_]

Also I understand why people would want proof. But my evidence is no different than his. It all just boils down to how you look at this. If he can proove that I scammed someone then whatever, give me more negative feedbacks.

But I didn't. If he dares to posts the messages exchanged it'll be visible that I never agreeded with him, never had a disagreement with the trader and importantly, didn't scam the trader. If anything using him as an escrow made the trasaction harder. I'm sure that you would trust evidence posted by him more anyway, since surely if I end up posting anything here I'll be accused of evidence manipulation.

[meren]

Hey worshipper, what quickseller do is the normal procedure on most escrows. He is only protecting the seller.

I use quickseller before as escrow and he also bought some of my accounts. He is honest and good guy.

What I can say is lets resume the transaction to solve this up. And everyone will be happy.

[worhiper_-_]

Hey worshipper, what quickseller do is the normal procedure on most escrows. He is only protecting the seller.

I use quickseller before as escrow and he also bought some of my accounts. He is honest and good guy.

What I can say is lets resume the transaction to solve this up. And everyone will be happy.

I wouldn't mind continuing the transaction, but not in this moment, because I'm obviously frustrated.

You can't tell me that him giving me a negative trust rating because I asked him to follow the terms we had agreed on is protecting the seller.

You were on the other end receiving the messages, you agreed with my terms and let him know. He sent back terms that were different and that I didn't want to follow. I simply didn't want to finish this transaction with him as the middleman because his unprofesionality frustrated me.

If he wanted to protect you, he would have at least sent a message mentioning that he'll alter the terms of the escrow. But that's not even his job, why would I pay him to change the terms?
I never had an agreement with him

I didn't try to scam you or him

Those are facts based on that he left me a comletely unjustified trust rating

Whatever, since I see you're still lokking for this deal with me.

I'll send you a message until tomorrow, and likely pay first just for the sake of completing this deal. I kind of feel guilty for getting you through this because it's none of your fault, (unless of course you're quickseller [joke]).

[onewiseguy]

Post the damn messages man or it never happened. Simple.

[Light]

1. I message him with terms I set for a trade
2. Other party sends me and quickseller a message telling him he agrees on my terms I set for the escrow
3. Quickseller sends me his version of terms, that are unrelated to the terms I had set and agreeded with the other trader asking me to agree on his terms
4. I message quickseller poiting this out
5. He tells me he's not willing to change HIS terms although I and the other trader had agreeded on other terms and wanted him to honor them
6. I decline to complete the trade using him as escrow

There are two things I would like to point out. First of all, right now your story and Quickseller's don't match up - your timeline of events doesn't mention you ever agreeing to a specific set of terms, while Quickseller notes that you DID agree and then failed to meet your end. Without proof, this is just a she-said he-said case - you're not convincing anyone you're not in the wrong.

Secondly, the trust system itself isn't purely meant to deal with scams - it's simply a forum-wide report on individual users by other users on whether they think that person can be trusted. In this case (while you haven't scammed anyone), Quickseller has indicated that you are not considered trustworthy by him.

[alani123]

So, uhm... Why doesn't quickseller post the messages? Is he afraid that tecshare will start accusing him of trust abuse? 

[meren]

If you want to continue the transaction just let me know I'm waiting for the transaction.

Obviously I'm not Quickseller.  

[dznuts85]

I don't want to bother with this much. Why not ask quickseller? He has all his messages, my terms were in the initial message to him. A message that was received by him and the other trader.

He replyied with some terms that didn't seem to be well optimised to our trade, I think that part of it was even copy pasted. He made thing overly complicated and in result angered me enough to cancel the deal before reaching an agreement with him as the escrower.

Quickseller is good guy. If you get that red trust he must have good reason. You dont wanna give proof this is ok. Bye and gl.

I don't doubtthat he's a good guy. I'm not even saying that he's a scammer. But don't I have the right to be unsatisfied with his service? People make mistakes, I felt that his service was unprofesional with my case and didn't want to use his services after getting angry.

He has the record of the messages, I invite him to post the first three messages that the three parties involved exchanged. Me, the trader and him. First message is me setting the terms. Second message is the trader confiming that he agrees while replying to both participants. Third message is quickseller giving us his custom terms.

I saw his terms, got angry and more angry after exchanging PMs with quickseller. Ultimately declined the deal.

He claims we reached an agreement, we didn't.

Why dont you give us proof and not wait for quickseller to give his?  As i see this, you want to clear name from quickseller's false accusatipn about you then you must do all the things you can do on your side

[Quickseller]

Original escrow agreement:

Hey quickseller, meren here wants to sell me a full member account registered in 2012. With 135 activity and 135 posts for 0.1 BTC

Please help us by escrowing this transaction.

Verify the above. If his claims are valid and the acount doesn't have negative overall trust give me an adress to forward the funds for the escrow.

Meren, you can reply to this message to verify that you agree with this procedure.

I verify this. Please proceed with the transaction.

Please see below. The question if a signed message is required was not addressed, however I assumed it was not and left it out of the escrow agreement. If a signed message will be necessary then please confirm as much prior to funding the escrow address.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

This is quickseller from bitcointalk, today is April 12 2015

The buyer (worhiper_-_) should fund the below escrow address with .1 BTC. After there is one confirmation then the seller (meren) should provide me with the username and password to an account(s) described below.

I will then change the password and forward the signed message to the buyer who will then advise me that it is okay to release escrow to the seller. In the event of a dispute I will attempt to mediate it, and in the event I am unable to decide with a good amount of certainty that I am making the correct decision, I will consult the community, moderators and forum administration  via the scam accusations section.

The escrow address is : 1JG6EqGhy3Uj2H92CkkPBZKmMqiVFtyot2
The amount due the seller (after my fee) is: .0925 BTC

The account being sold is described below:
Full Member (quantity - 1)
Registered: 2012
Feedback: Neutral
Activity: 135+
Posts:135+
Feedback: Neutral
Trust: 0: -0 / +0(0)


By sending funds to escrow and/or sending me the credentials to the account being sold you are affirming that you agree to the terms of escrow.

If you are satisfied with my services, any tip to the escrow address and/or positive trust would be appreciated.

Thank you.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJVKzKiAAoJEFMt0pDwvrUWr4oIAKaiv3kxJmqCH62L+RON0IyM
ccS1Y7V1Su6ScPiHfftDDM9aw75J/p33F0FAqs1592hTa4Yd8UwfSFL9oxw0hNSR
mDtk6K3FE/8IJEe1iVGJ6JKwrtifYM2bjL4z//YhI+2tBNkBp+mbyoddhMa12dK9
p12Hwl1CTdSONPWpqUk4sAuvwa7Ckjh8f3klnP/h1pQSnLletZnzu9Kaow2qRm7u
eKWvqV6djyAAiOvxGxj8qlhdNbi2j89EX0/1SsRg8sUeNIr+Xx59qLV8CMIBD663
k6TD5Sm/1pPHs00MAds8D2b3HgdcDoK0tSPXHT4wHpma7aKkJ1L595faOHw/Soc=
=qnwP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Code:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

This is quickseller from bitcointalk, today is April 12 2015

The buyer (worhiper_-_) should fund the below escrow address with .1 BTC. After there is one confirmation then the seller (meren) should provide me with the username and password to an account(s) described below. 

I will then change the password and forward the signed message to the buyer who will then advise me that it is okay to release escrow to the seller. In the event of a dispute I will attempt to mediate it, and in the event I am unable to decide with a good amount of certainty that I am making the correct decision, I will consult the community, moderators and forum administration  via the scam accusations section. 

The escrow address is : 1JG6EqGhy3Uj2H92CkkPBZKmMqiVFtyot2
The amount due the seller (after my fee) is: .0925 BTC

The account being sold is described below:
Full Member (quantity - 1) 
Registered: 2012
Feedback: Neutral
Activity: 135+
Posts:135+
Feedback: Neutral
Trust: 0: -0 / +0(0)


By sending funds to escrow and/or sending me the credentials to the account being sold you are affirming that you agree to the terms of escrow. 

If you are satisfied with my services, any tip to the escrow address and/or positive trust would be appreciated. 

Thank you. 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJVKzKiAAoJEFMt0pDwvrUWr4oIAKaiv3kxJmqCH62L+RON0IyM
ccS1Y7V1Su6ScPiHfftDDM9aw75J/p33F0FAqs1592hTa4Yd8UwfSFL9oxw0hNSR
mDtk6K3FE/8IJEe1iVGJ6JKwrtifYM2bjL4z//YhI+2tBNkBp+mbyoddhMa12dK9
p12Hwl1CTdSONPWpqUk4sAuvwa7Ckjh8f3klnP/h1pQSnLletZnzu9Kaow2qRm7u
eKWvqV6djyAAiOvxGxj8qlhdNbi2j89EX0/1SsRg8sUeNIr+Xx59qLV8CMIBD663
k6TD5Sm/1pPHs00MAds8D2b3HgdcDoK0tSPXHT4wHpma7aKkJ1L595faOHw/Soc=
=qnwP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I already forwarded the account details and password.

First message from him:

Quickseller, my initial message mentioned that you should confirm that the account is what I agreed with the seller before I send the funds. Seller agreed to this.

Did you contact him to verify that his claims are valid and the account does indeed fit the description* you before asking me to fund the escrow address?

BTW I don't require a signed message.

*Description:

Full Member (quantity - 1)
Registered: 2012
Activity: 135+
Posts:135+
Feedback: Neutral

Thanks

Message to him after I received credentials:

Account details have been verified.

2012 account with both 135+ posts and activity.

Second message from him:

The security log tell anyone that is looking which accounts have had their password changed and what time their password changed.

Like I said before your funds would be safe once they are sent to me as the seller would not be able to access the funds until after I have checked the account, I have forwarded the details to you and you have authorized the release of the funds.

If the seller wishes to send me the account details prior to you sending the funds to the escrow address then he is free to do so, however that is not something he has done as of now.

A. You can verify that the account fits his description just by looking at the profile, no passwords changed.

I'm not sure if you're just ignorant of you didn't even bother to read our PMs to you before copy pasting your version of terms and sending it to me and the seller...

B. The seller agreeded to my terms as he verified before you sent your version.

Those terms made clear mention that you will have to verify before receiving funds. If you didn't like the terms, you could have messeged us before copy pasting your very unrelated version of the terms.

C. I don't have trust issues, I just wanted to sent the funds after you verified that the account described actually existed. That's why I choose to hire you, and you failed.

This deal is now canceled.

 I don't require you to reply to this message for explaining etc., let's just say that I wouldn't want to deal or exchange messages with you again.

[Quickseller]

Ironically the seller did adhere to his scammy, post agreement term that account details be provided before escrow is funded. When account details are provided prior to escrow being funded, the escrow is forced to take control of the account or risk that they make a statement that they cannot confirm to be true.

By taking control of the account then the seller is at risk because the identity of the account would be publicly know via the security log. The buyer would know the identity of the account with a good amount of certainty because there are not a lot of passwords being changed at any given time. This would allow the buyer to publish the identity of the account which would do irreversible damage to the value of the account being sold.

There is nothing in the original agreement that says the identity must be confirmed prior to funding escrow. The point of escrow is to guarantee that both parties are thoroughly protected.

The negative will remain.  

[alani123]

When account details are provided prior to escrow being funded, the escrow is forced to take control of the account or risk that they make a statement that they cannot confirm to be true.

Wrong, you could confirm this by looking at a link of the profile. Having read through the first 3 messages, I think that the user wanted to fund the address after you confirmed that it did fit the description you had, not after you had the password.

There is nothing in the original agreement that says the identity must be confirmed prior to funding escrow.

WHAT?

If his claims are valid and the acount doesn't have negative overall trust give me an adress to forward the funds for the escrow.

[Quickseller]

When account details are provided prior to escrow being funded, the escrow is forced to take control of the account or risk that they make a statement that they cannot confirm to be true.

Wrong, you could confirm this by looking at a link of the profile. Having read through the first 3 messages, I think that the user wanted to fund the address after you confirmed that it did fit the description you had, not after you had the password.

Anyone can provide any username to an account. If I was given a name of an account then I would be forced to make a statement that I cannot verify is true.

Regardless, the seller did provide me with the username/password of an account that matched the description (and I confirmed as much to the seller) of the account being sold, yet the buyer still backed out of the transaction.

[marcotheminer]

When account details are provided prior to escrow being funded, the escrow is forced to take control of the account or risk that they make a statement that they cannot confirm to be true.

Wrong, you could confirm this by looking at a link of the profile. Having read through the first 3 messages, I think that the user wanted to fund the address after you confirmed that it did fit the description you had, not after you had the password.

Anyone can provide any username to an account. If I was given a name of an account then I would be forced to make a statement that I cannot verify is true.

Regardless, the seller did provide me with the username/password of an account that matched the description (and I confirmed as much to the seller) of the account being sold, yet the buyer still backed out of the transaction.

Anyone can provide any username to an account. If I was given a name of an account then I would be forced to make a statement that I cannot verify is true.

Then ask for a username and password of the account being sold, simple.

[Quickseller]

When account details are provided prior to escrow being funded, the escrow is forced to take control of the account or risk that they make a statement that they cannot confirm to be true.

Wrong, you could confirm this by looking at a link of the profile. Having read through the first 3 messages, I think that the user wanted to fund the address after you confirmed that it did fit the description you had, not after you had the password.

Anyone can provide any username to an account. If I was given a name of an account then I would be forced to make a statement that I cannot verify is true.

Regardless, the seller did provide me with the username/password of an account that matched the description (and I confirmed as much to the seller) of the account being sold, yet the buyer still backed out of the transaction.

Anyone can provide any username to an account. If I was given a name of an account then I would be forced to make a statement that I cannot verify is true.

Then ask for a username and password of the account being sold, simple.

If I did that then I would need to make a statement that I cannot verify to be true. If I check the password, then confirm details of the account then the seller could change the password on me and there would be no way for me to deliver the account to the buyer. If I changed the password then the seller would be at risk as the buyer could publish the identity of the account.

Regardless this is a moot point because the buyer did provide the identity of the account to me, and I did confirm that I was able to verify that it met the criteria as listed in the agreement. Yet the escrow address has not been funded.

[chmod755]

THIS IS NOT A SCAM ACCUSATION

Why did you think it's a good idea to post it here? That sounds more like a "Service Discussion" to me.

IMO ratings should be discussed via PM unless there's an issue affecting more than 2 BCT members.