Your opinions on Online Gambling and Bitcoin

[OpenOcean]

Hello Everyone,

I am a young entrepreneur and I want my niche to be online P2P gambling, with no house edge. I believe this is a system where by provably fair sites can remove some of the stigmas associated with skill-based and chance games, as well as provide educated people (statisticians for example) and long-run method by which to make real returns from their knowledge despite an economy that undervalues their skills (even though they're paid more than the poultry that goes for average these days).

Anyhow, I understand that there are many counterpoints and draw backs from what I have said. We are aware that gambling has ruined lives before. Yet, recently governments (UK, Canada, Italy, etc.) has begun to offer online gaming as a way to generate taxes. Does government ownership of gambling make it more legitimate? Are the government's imposed limits a big difference in when it comes to the application of these devices? Are some governments/regions/jurisdictions more progressive than others?

This conversation is of particular interest to me so thank you for any and all input.

Open Ocean

[Amph]

i think that online gambling should be regulated in some way, now with bitcoin, people feel even more secure to gambling(it sound like an oxymoron) but really it is the true, maybe put a limit on the bet or something?

because many of them can't stop playing until they lose all(and i know how they feel, fortunately i have good selfcontrol), and with bitcoin i find that it is even worse then regular fiat, because they can play with more anonimity

[ashour]

i think that online gambling should be regulated in some way, now with bitcoin, people feel even more secure to gambling(it sound like an oxymoron) but really it is the true, maybe put a limit on the bet or something?

because many of them can't stop playing until they lose all(and i know how they feel fortunately i have good selfcontrol), and with bitcoin i find that it is even worse then regular fiat, because they can play with more anonimity

I agree, bitcoin gambling services should be more regulated and taxed. It's not bad enough that many gambling sites ruin lives but they  probably don't even pay taxes or worse they don't have a license to run gambling business. More laws and regulations should be made to control the online gambling to make it safe and better.

[pawel7777]

Hello Everyone,

I am a young entrepreneur and I want my niche to be online P2P gambling, with no house edge. ...

You should seriously reconsider that idea.
Bitcoin gambling market seems to be already saturated and P2P is particularly the hardest one to start. Not to mention that there already are P2P betting sites (bitbet.us, peerbet.org and probably few other).

...
Yet, recently governments (UK, Canada, Italy, etc.) has begun to offer online gaming as a way to generate taxes. Does government ownership of gambling make it more legitimate?

No. If anything it can be the other way around. If gambling is made illegal with exception of government owned entities, then such gambling operators are in monopoly position and don't really have to care about providing fair odds, transparency etc, and are likely protected from any type of control.

I remember heavy rumors, a few years back, about Lotto results being manipulated in Italy and also in Poland (iirc).

[Sheldor333]

Yeah it's all nice in theory but you won't make any money and would most likely soon be broke if house doesn't have an edge. That's why it's called gambling. Yes extra traffic would generate more money, but you would also lose more.

[QuestionAuthority]

Click the link on the right hand side of my signature for my opinion on gambling.

[Jybrael]

I am not totally against gambling but I am not for it either...I have had personal experience with gambling where I lost a lot of money before I finally got out of it...anyways in my opinion Gambling should be regulated...also if there is no house edge mate you won't be able to keep the site sustained and might go broke in no time. Advertisements will only bring in so much after all.

[hilariousetc]

Gambling is a huge industry and bitcoin is currently untapped by the mainstream sites. They could actually save a lot of money by accepting or paying out in coins over PayPal and other such money transmitters. As for creating your own site if you can come up with something unique go for it but the market is pretty saturated with run of the mill dice sites and basic casinos at the moment so don't just do another one of them.

[hikedoon]

Gambling is tax-free in the UK.
A few years ago the UK government got rid of taxes for betting in real life bookies because they couldn't compete with tax-free online gambling sites based in Gibraltar and Jersey. IIRC.
Also,I just lost £20 on the Grand National on Saturday and i didn't pay tax.

[RocketSingh]

I think rather than Govt, Jurisdiction etc. u need to focus on game features. Tell us what Open Ocean can offer over BitDice.me ? As someone else pointed out, gambling is a pretty saturated place now with already established players. Bringing in regulation is not a nice feature in my opinion.

[Hazir]

Hello Everyone,

I am a young entrepreneur and I want my niche to be online P2P gambling, with no house edge. ...

You should seriously reconsider that idea.
Bitcoin gambling market seems to be already saturated and P2P is particularly the hardest one to start. Not to mention that there already are P2P betting sites (bitbet.us, peerbet.org and probably few other).

...
Yet, recently governments (UK, Canada, Italy, etc.) has begun to offer online gaming as a way to generate taxes. Does government ownership of gambling make it more legitimate?

No. If anything it can be the other way around. If gambling is made illegal with exception of government owned entities, then such gambling operators are in monopoly position and don't really have to care about providing fair odds, transparency etc, and are likely protected from any type of control.

I remember heavy rumors, a few years back, about Lotto results being manipulated in Italy and also in Poland (iirc).

While it is true that we have a lot of services and casinos which let us play online. But I don't think that market is saturated at this point. I think there is plenty of room for new ideas and awesome sites. With good dose of marketing backed by really good service your website will be skyrocketing in no time. I don't trust anybody until I see proofs of bets being fair that means government's  casinos are no exception here, and if government will ensure that private casinos will be illegal I would definitely won't support government's casino but instead will be using unblocked online service.

[Gyfts]

Hello Everyone,

I am a young entrepreneur and I want my niche to be online P2P gambling, with no house edge. I believe this is a system where by provably fair sites can remove some of the stigmas associated with skill-based and chance games, as well as provide educated people (statisticians for example) and long-run method by which to make real returns from their knowledge despite an economy that undervalues their skills (even though they're paid more than the poultry that goes for average these days).

Anyhow, I understand that there are many counterpoints and draw backs from what I have said. We are aware that gambling has ruined lives before. Yet, recently governments (UK, Canada, Italy, etc.) has begun to offer online gaming as a way to generate taxes. Does government ownership of gambling make it more legitimate? Are the government's imposed limits a big difference in when it comes to the application of these devices? Are some governments/regions/jurisdictions more progressive than others?

This conversation is of particular interest to me so thank you for any and all input.

Open Ocean

I believe the US requires Bitcoin to be taxed as an "income" so it's a bit of a grey area if Bitcoin gambling sites are allowed at all. If allowed, any and all sites with a legitimate provably fair gambling system would be in my book as fair. If someone has a gambling problem, that is no one's fault but their own and should be handled by themselves.

[TippingPoint]

Regulated gambling in many jurisdictions is an over-raked, over-taxed monopoly.  For example, most U.S. states have a lottery that rakes (takes away from the potential winnings of the recipients) about 40%
http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/lottery-payouts-and-state-revenue-2010.aspx

That is huge.  And then the winner gets to pay income tax if he wins.

Contrast that with the rake of internet poker sites that can be 2.5% (and even lower for some games), and zero if the hand does not make it to the flop.

In my opinion, it is only competition from the internet gaming sites (and internet poker in particular) that prevents states from taking an even higher percentage.

And internet gambling is helping to provide needed Bitcoin capitalization and liquidity until Bitcoin becomes more popular for other uses.

[Ron~Popeil]

i think that online gambling should be regulated in some way, now with bitcoin, people feel even more secure to gambling(it sound like an oxymoron) but really it is the true, maybe put a limit on the bet or something?

because many of them can't stop playing until they lose all(and i know how they feel fortunately i have good selfcontrol), and with bitcoin i find that it is even worse then regular fiat, because they can play with more anonimity

I agree, bitcoin gambling services should be more regulated and taxed. It's not bad enough that many gambling sites ruin lives but they  probably don't even pay taxes or worse they don't have a license to run gambling business. More laws and regulations should be made to control the online gambling to make it safe and better.

Gambling sites are regulated quite well. The ones that act unethically or make bad decisions tend to go away very quickly. It is called the market and it works better than any regulatory framework ever could.

Licensing and taxation are pretty much one and the same. Casino owners are subject to tax liabilities in their home jurisdiction. It is their business whether they pay their taxes or not.

[Ingatqhvq]

Online Gambling is the main application of bitcoin at present, bitcoin is perfect for online gambling.

[Kaneki]

I think online gambling is not a bad idea, as long as the rules are fair and do not end scam.

[bryant.coleman]

I agree, bitcoin gambling services should be more regulated and taxed. It's not bad enough that many gambling sites ruin lives but they  probably don't even pay taxes or worse they don't have a license to run gambling business. More laws and regulations should be made to control the online gambling to make it safe and better.

Why should they pay taxes huh?

So that rich and greedy politicians get even more rich and greedy? There should be no taxes on gambling. It is a one-to-one business.

[noobtrader]

i think online gambling is still has room to grow, there is huge amount of money can be generated because gambling is illegal in many country. and most ppl have to go overseas to gamble.

[Bit_Happy]

Does government ownership of gambling make it more legitimate?

Do free, independent-minded people believe so?  No
Government ownership/heavy taxation/regulation of gambling does make it more legitimate in the eyes of the police and other Gov't agencies. If you break too many laws, then someday you might pay the price.

[Mehek]

Hello Everyone,

I am a young entrepreneur and I want my niche to be online P2P gambling, with no house edge. I believe this is a system where by provably fair sites can remove some of the stigmas associated with skill-based and chance games, as well as provide educated people (statisticians for example) and long-run method by which to make real returns from their knowledge despite an economy that undervalues their skills (even though they're paid more than the poultry that goes for average these days).

Anyhow, I understand that there are many counterpoints and draw backs from what I have said. We are aware that gambling has ruined lives before. Yet, recently governments (UK, Canada, Italy, etc.) has begun to offer online gaming as a way to generate taxes. Does government ownership of gambling make it more legitimate? Are the government's imposed limits a big difference in when it comes to the application of these devices? Are some governments/regions/jurisdictions more progressive than others?

This conversation is of particular interest to me so thank you for any and all input.

Open Ocean

i will suggest gambline is just a waste of time play it just for fun not for earning..no martangle and any other stratagy will work