Can a coin that is primarily a store-of-value succeed?

[futureofbitcoin]

Sorry if this should go into the alt section. But it's not just about alts, and I figured there are more people here. If it should be moved, sorry for giving you more work, mods.

Can a coin that is primarily a store-of-value succeed? What I mean is, a lot of people have been comparing bitcoin to gold. Some, like me, believe that it will be very hard for bitcoin to overtake current national currencies (I avoid fiat, because it doesn't matter whether they're fiat or not, the point is the governments of the world recognize these currencies, thus they're "legitimized" in a way) in terms of being a spending currency. But bitcoin could also carve out a niche in other areas, particularly as a store-of-value, since it was even modeled after gold. If bitcoin goes mainstream, because of the deflationary nature, many people will want to save and hold instead of use.

So if bitcoin becomes a primarily store-of-value coin, or if an altcoin that pops up in the future decides to make itself primarily for the use of storing value, will the amount of transactions be able to support miners, when the block reward drops off, and only transaction fees are left? If not enough transactions happen, what will happen to the network security? Will the big players spend their own money to secure the network to make sure the value they have in the coin is safe? Or will transaction fees be very high? Or will the network be vulnerable?


-Just two points to end; yes, I understand, for the libertarians among us, the hope is that bitcoin will work as a currency. I'm just talking about a hypothetical question here. Or perhaps, if bitcoin goes mainstream, there will surely be more people making altcoins for various niches. So no need to tell me that bitcoin will kill fiat for sure, blah blah blah.

Also, if an altcoin is too inflationary, obviously it won't work well as a store of value. But perhaps a small amount of inflation could work; if we could estimate the amount of coins lost (through mistakes, death, or whatever else) per year, and have the emissions match that amount, we are essentially keeping the amount of coins constant (or close to it). Miners will still get rewards, and we won't end up with a grand total of 1 satoshi that isn't lost, from 21mil coins in the future.

[crazyivan]

Yes it can. DMD Diamond s primairly store of value and it s going to be big. Yes, I have invested in it and yes you can consider this as a promotion. However, if I think it s smart to invest my own money in it, I see no reason why I would not recommend it to other people.

[futureofbitcoin]

Yes it can. DMD Diamond s primairly store of value and it s going to be big. Yes, I have invested in it and yes you can consider this as a promotion. However, if I think it s smart to invest my own money in it, I see no reason why I would not recommend it to other people.

Okay, you're free to promote a coin you like, but in keeping with this being the bitcoin discussion section, would you mind elaborating why you think such coins can/will succeed? You're free to bring examples from your coin, but I hope that there is also something in general to all cryptocurrencies. I don't mind the mods moving this thread, but I'd prefer if it stayed here.

Thanks.

[tokeweed]

Yes it can. DMD Diamond s primairly store of value and it s going to be big. Yes, I have invested in it and yes you can consider this as a promotion. However, if I think it s smart to invest my own money in it, I see no reason why I would not recommend it to other people.

LOL

[tokeweed]

Sorry if this should go into the alt section. But it's not just about alts, and I figured there are more people here. If it should be moved, sorry for giving you more work, mods.

Can a coin that is primarily a store-of-value succeed? What I mean is, a lot of people have been comparing bitcoin to gold. Some, like me, believe that it will be very hard for bitcoin to overtake current national currencies (I avoid fiat, because it doesn't matter whether they're fiat or not, the point is the governments of the world recognize these currencies, thus they're "legitimized" in a way) in terms of being a spending currency. But bitcoin could also carve out a niche in other areas, particularly as a store-of-value, since it was even modeled after gold. If bitcoin goes mainstream, because of the deflationary nature, many people will want to save and hold instead of use.

So if bitcoin becomes a primarily store-of-value coin, or if an altcoin that pops up in the future decides to make itself primarily for the use of storing value, will the amount of transactions be able to support miners, when the block reward drops off, and only transaction fees are left? If not enough transactions happen, what will happen to the network security? Will the big players spend their own money to secure the network to make sure the value they have in the coin is safe? Or will transaction fees be very high? Or will the network be vulnerable?


-Just two points to end; yes, I understand, for the libertarians among us, the hope is that bitcoin will work as a currency. I'm just talking about a hypothetical question here. Or perhaps, if bitcoin goes mainstream, there will surely be more people making altcoins for various niches. So no need to tell me that bitcoin will kill fiat for sure, blah blah blah.

Also, if an altcoin is too inflationary, obviously it won't work well as a store of value. But perhaps a small amount of inflation could work; if we could estimate the amount of coins lost (through mistakes, death, or whatever else) per year, and have the emissions match that amount, we are essentially keeping the amount of coins constant (or close to it). Miners will still get rewards, and we won't end up with a grand total of 1 satoshi that isn't lost, from 21mil coins in the future.

I thought about it awhile ago myself.  But then I was like.. "2140(?) is a long way off."  It's good that you started this topic because I'm also curious what the more learned bitcoiners think.

[futureofbitcoin]

2140 is pretty far, but if you think about it, a block reward of < 1 BTC wouldn't be all that much, unless bitcoin's value skyrockets. So we may face this problem a lot earlier.

[crazyivan]

Yes it can. DMD Diamond s primairly store of value and it s going to be big. Yes, I have invested in it and yes you can consider this as a promotion. However, if I think it s smart to invest my own money in it, I see no reason why I would not recommend it to other people.

Okay, you're free to promote a coin you like, but in keeping with this being the bitcoin discussion section, would you mind elaborating why you think such coins can/will succeed? You're free to bring examples from your coin, but I hope that there is also something in general to all cryptocurrencies. I don't mind the mods moving this thread, but I'd prefer if it stayed here.

Thanks.

Ok, sure.


You know how they often compare crypto to a gold?

One of the major function of gold is to be a store of value, in other words a precious metal you can turn your assets into and know that you ll be able to retain that value over decades.
The same idea s behind several cryptocurrencies, I would say most of them besides those with high inflation rate e.g 700%+

People often think that the primary reason for crypto to succeed is to get accepted by thousands of small retailers and get spent EVERY DAY. This might not be true.
I personally chose my currencies to act as store of value, I do use some of them to purchase things I need but most of them I hoard like a hamster. Let us be honest, most of us do the same.
The only difference is that some people do it solely because they expect the price of their portfolio to apprecaiate while other, like me, do this due to this additional reason of PRESERVING current assets over time.

I like gold but I m into tech and I need something with characteristics of a precious metal which can be turned into FIAT fast, which is easy to transfer, which is safe and secure.

Why DMD Diamond? Well, its a 50% annual PoS coin. In other words, it s a gold bar which generated small gold bars over time. 
Also, it s a coin with a very limited and scarce supply as a real diamond should be. PoW phase reward just got reduced from 1 DMD per block to 0.2 DMD per block.

So, yes, I believe crypto can be used as a store of value. Whether this is its primarily function, it depends on the person who holds it.

[redsn0w]

2140 is pretty far, but if you think about it, a block reward of < 1 BTC wouldn't be all that much, unless bitcoin's value skyrockets. So we may face this problem a lot earlier.

I think we will see something before/after the next halving (25 --> 12.5 bitcoin). Maybe from 200 dollars the price will jump to 300 bucks, but as you said the real interesting thing may happen after ~2032 (when the block reward will be less than 1 bitcoin).

[Kprawn]

The tendacy would be that some people would want to hodl/hoard it, because of the deflationary nature, but there would also be a huge number of people, who would use it, for the other features it offers them.

1. Low Fees
2. No charge backs
3. Speed of transactions { 1 or 2 confirmations}
4. Better security for online transactions, compared to credit cards etc. 
5. Some degree of anonymity.
6. Cutting out the middle man {Banks}

We hope these features of Bitcoin would promote it's use and not the deflationary nature of the coin. Nothing is set in stone, so features can be added to make it more flexable. 

[RaginglikeaBoss]

Also, it s a coin with a very limited and scarce supply as a real diamond should be.

Just FYI, diamonds are common.

[chennan]

I think we will see something before/after the next halving (25 --> 12.5 bitcoin). Maybe from 200 dollars the price will jump to 300 bucks, but as you said the real interesting thing may happen after ~2032 (when the block reward will be less than 1 bitcoin).

The things we should keep in mind that when time goes by, the adoption rate of bitcoin will increase, and the number of transaction per day will increase as well. So does the transaction fees.  If the number of transaction can reach to the theoretical maximum of 10tx/s, then every block can collect 9 BTC (we assume every transaction includes the minimum fee 0.0001 BTC) to reward the miners. And the supply of it is diminishing, more merchants and individual are requiring it and the price will definitely shoot up.  Until the bitcoin ecosystem reaches to the balance.

[futureofbitcoin]

I think we will see something before/after the next halving (25 --> 12.5 bitcoin). Maybe from 200 dollars the price will jump to 300 bucks, but as you said the real interesting thing may happen after ~2032 (when the block reward will be less than 1 bitcoin).

The things we should keep in mind that when time goes by, the adoption rate of bitcoin will increase, and the number of transaction per day will increase as well. So does the transaction fees.  If the number of transaction can reach to the theoretical maximum of 10tx/s, then every block can collect 9 BTC (we assume every transaction includes the minimum fee 0.0001 BTC) to reward the miners. And the supply of it is diminishing, more merchants and individual are requiring it and the price will definitely shoot up.  Until the bitcoin ecosystem reaches to the balance.

....... read the thread title? The question is what will happen if people choose NOT TO transact, and give miners rewards...

Or even if people transact, but within a system say xapo or coinbase or something, such that the transactions don't actually happen on the blockchain, but within xapo/coinbase or some future bitcoin bank, and miners will not get rewards.

[crazyivan]

Also, it s a coin with a very limited and scarce supply as a real diamond should be.

Just FYI, diamonds are common.

Really? How many diamonds do you have? As opposed to some other carbon stone? I can find coal in my back yard, diamonds, a bit harder.

[redsn0w]

I think we will see something before/after the next halving (25 --> 12.5 bitcoin). Maybe from 200 dollars the price will jump to 300 bucks, but as you said the real interesting thing may happen after ~2032 (when the block reward will be less than 1 bitcoin).

The things we should keep in mind that when time goes by, the adoption rate of bitcoin will increase, and the number of transaction per day will increase as well. So does the transaction fees.  If the number of transaction can reach to the theoretical maximum of 10tx/s, then every block can collect 9 BTC (we assume every transaction includes the minimum fee 0.0001 BTC) to reward the miners. And the supply of it is diminishing, more merchants and individual are requiring it and the price will definitely shoot up.  Until the bitcoin ecosystem reaches to the balance.

....... read the thread title? The question is what will happen if people choose NOT TO transact, and give miners rewards...

Or even if people transact, but within a system say xapo or coinbase or something, such that the transactions don't actually happen on the blockchain, but within xapo/coinbase or some future bitcoin bank, and miners will not get rewards.

Then in this case we will not "move" bitcoin, but something like that "the promises" as in the FIAT value. The limit of 7tx/s is due the block size, and I think one day it can be "adjusted" to 5 Mb per block. We should move real bitcoin on the chain, not 'off the chain'.

For the question of bitcoin banks, I think it will never exist a bitcoin bank.... because bitcoin was created also for 'go away' from those banks. Why someone should keep his bitcoin on a hypothetical 'bank'? We own ours wallet/client to keep and store bitcoins and (in my honest opinion) we don't need bitcoin banks.

[crazyivan]

yes yes in the nederlands it already is you can order food to your house with bitcoin

There s no doubt this is useful trait but the question was whether a coin which is primarily store of value can succeed?

[Amph]

Also, it s a coin with a very limited and scarce supply as a real diamond should be.

Just FYI, diamonds are common.

Really? How many diamonds do you have? As opposed to some other carbon stone? I can find coal in my back yard, diamonds, a bit harder?

then what about other pos coins that have less coin supply(like 1 coin and many others crap with 100k total supply(firecoin, lemurcoin ecc... )? they should be better than diamond or bitcoin right? well i don't think so

[redsn0w]

@futureofbitcoin,

if you want to store value (like 10k dollars) or something I can suggest you to chose the 'gold', because BTC compared with gold it's very, very volatile. bitcoin as money (at the moment) for a lot of us is considered a thing for make money (pure speculation) but when one day this speculation will terminate we can start to think to another concept of bitcoin and usage.


(This was just my personal opinion).

[RaginglikeaBoss]

Watch out Amph, talk bad about Diamond and crazyivan will begin to flip shit-soaked pancakes.

BTC is basically fulfilling the role from the OP.  Any alt-coins claiming this are almost certainly dependent on the mercy and market elasticity of BTC.  Defeating the purpose.

Gold or go home.  Seriously, and physically own it.

[Snail2]

"...coin that is primarily a store-of-value ..."

Is there any such thing? IMO Cryptos are for transaction processing not for storing value. BTW what value? A value suggested by a bunch of pumpers and/or fuders ? What will happen if you want to buy something from an "unbeliever"? In that case the value of your coins are exactly zero (unless you can find a "believer" around and sell your coins for fiat).
A crypto what is acting as a store of value is basically an electronic form of fiat as it has no intrinsic value on it's own. Only the consensus of a community grants any value for our coins.

[futureofbitcoin]

For the question of bitcoin banks, I think it will never exist a bitcoin bank.... because bitcoin was created also for 'go away' from those banks. Why someone should keep his bitcoin on a hypothetical 'bank'? We own ours wallet/client to keep and store bitcoins and (in my honest opinion) we don't need bitcoin banks.

Why? because within the system, you can save on transaction fees. They might also offer some sort of a bonus, or claim they can store your keys with more safety than you can. May sound outrageous to some of the extreme techies here, or those who cannot trust anyone. But I'm sure for a fair number of people, this would be totally true.

Also, I'm not looking for a store of value. I'm wondering how bitcoin will survive in various scenarios, and how the altscene will develop in the future.

@Snail: what's the intrinsic value of gold? And yet it keeps keeping up with inflation.