ANNOUNCEMENT: Stop getting trolled by taxes, it's time to put an end to Tax Day

[BADecker]

Taxes are not voluntary. The idea of a voluntary tax is a self-contradictory term.

Voluntary is donation.

Tax is forced.

If there is an agreement among a group that they will all pay a certain amount, it is a voluntary agreement. Those who come along later need to decide if they want to take part in the agreement that is already set up, or not.

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[krb91]

The seastead sounds remarkably similar to the floating community proposed by the Marinecoin dev.

[tss]

congrats on the launch.  i hope people give it a try and a good user base forms as its obvious that the snr ratio there should be much better than here..  i figured this is what you were announcing :-)  thanks for that pm way back

[Realpra]

Maintenance - Boats rust, even glasfiber boats need to be taken up once a year and painted etc..

We're not talking about a boat here, we're talking about platforms (around 50 to 100 meters wide) that can interlock and expand to a city sized seastead.
The popular consensus has been that it should be built out of concrete. This will last hundreds if not thousands of years. One of our experts has built similar structures and there are many working examples of floating concrete platforms (one even has a landing strip on it).

Okay so I like some of the ideas and I hadn't thought of locating on top of existing cables. The rest I knew about or had thought about myself.

However it all falls apart with your platform solution - its basically just another housing project in an existing city/harbor/bay under existing laws.
Are prices even going to be radically lower? Probably not by much - even factoring in the high city real estate prices much will be eaten by the platform costs.

Another architecturally edgy building for the rich - with luck maybe middle class city folk, but not really much "homesteading" or "sea" in it.


Floating concrete at sea won't work, it will crumble very fast. I know this because it has been done before at D-day WWII; they floated over temporary giant hollow concrete blocks and used them as floating landing harbors.
Concrete is very strong... and very brittle, it can't flex in the sea and so it breaks and crumbles.

You also can't just link many platforms, the links would be under immense stress and would either break or need maintenance.

Maybe you could build a static platform at some low depth ocean location maybe even get lucky and find such a location overlapping with cables and international trade - you "only" need some 1 billion dollars + luck to get that going I think

For real seasteading to work you would need some kind of ultra strong and flexible rustfree material that is also very cheap to build your floating areas from. Sign me up when hyper-diamond is invented.

EDIT: And again after spending all those millions you end with a relatively small area even if it works.
If you spent a similar amount of money on a small army and a plot of land you could have a REAL nation regardless of what local authorities wanted - with cheap ground that doesn't need maintenance and area to do a range of activities.
No matter what though starting a nation from scratch costs at least a billion or two with luck I would guess.

[hdbuck]

Where your taxes go: http://billmoyers.com/2014/04/14/the-surprising-truth-behind-tax-day-where-your-taxes-go/

[Elwar]

Maintenance - Boats rust, even glasfiber boats need to be taken up once a year and painted etc..

We're not talking about a boat here, we're talking about platforms (around 50 to 100 meters wide) that can interlock and expand to a city sized seastead.
The popular consensus has been that it should be built out of concrete. This will last hundreds if not thousands of years. One of our experts has built similar structures and there are many working examples of floating concrete platforms (one even has a landing strip on it).

Okay so I like some of the ideas and I hadn't thought of locating on top of existing cables. The rest I knew about or had thought about myself.

However it all falls apart with your platform solution - its basically just another housing project in an existing city/harbor/bay under existing laws.
Are prices even going to be radically lower? Probably not by much - even factoring in the high city real estate prices much will be eaten by the platform costs.

Another architecturally edgy building for the rich - with luck maybe middle class city folk, but not really much "homesteading" or "sea" in it.


Floating concrete at sea won't work, it will crumble very fast. I know this because it has been done before at D-day WWII; they floated over temporary giant hollow concrete blocks and used them as floating landing harbors.
Concrete is very strong... and very brittle, it can't flex in the sea and so it breaks and crumbles.

You also can't just link many platforms, the links would be under immense stress and would either break or need maintenance.

Maybe you could build a static platform at some low depth ocean location maybe even get lucky and find such a location overlapping with cables and international trade - you "only" need some 1 billion dollars + luck to get that going I think

For real seasteading to work you would need some kind of ultra strong and flexible rustfree material that is also very cheap to build your floating areas from. Sign me up when hyper-diamond is invented.

EDIT: And again after spending all those millions you end with a relatively small area even if it works.
If you spent a similar amount of money on a small army and a plot of land you could have a REAL nation regardless of what local authorities wanted - with cheap ground that doesn't need maintenance and area to do a range of activities.
No matter what though starting a nation from scratch costs at least a billion or two with luck I would guess.

While this is a much larger project than we are working on, we are using this type of design on a smaller scale:


Concrete is brittle, that is why rebar is used, I have built some floating prototypes with concrete with no support and you are right, they fall apart after a few weeks. And concrete actually hardens more when in the water under constant pressure. There are many examples of concrete structures in the ocean. Some WWII structures are still standing.

Here is a very detailed engineering report done addressing most of the engineering challenges:
http://seasteading.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/DeltaSync-Final-Concept-Report.pdf

Personally I will be submitting a design that will get the costs down less than $10k for a small living environment (about dorm room sized). The Seasteading Institute ( http://www.seasteading.org ) is doing a design contest in June which should result in some great concepts.

I agree that being in a harbor under the laws of another country are certainly not ideal. But what we have right now are zero seasteads. This will be the first one. The Wright Brothers' first airplane had terrible food service, the bathrooms were quite uncomfortable and the in flight movie selection was pretty much non-existant. But they had to start somewhere.

[ibminer]

The announcement implied that something big was going to happen for bitcoin on April 15th, which was a little misleading.
At this point, its an interesting start-up project based on a unique mix between a pay-to-join forum & kickstarter..... and yes, its based on Bitcoin.

IMHO You may have the task of getting whales to accept this forum & concept before others with lower coins join in. If it were me, I'd want to see quicker mass adoption with the site and I'm not sure you can have that without smaller bitcoin holders jumping on board. I don't see this site being appealing to smaller bitcoin holders unless they see all of the whales flocking to the site, and then they may just follow them over to be where the money is. I may be wrong but I also don't foresee whales flocking to join the site without the mass adoption... and so, I'm not as optimistic, as much as I want to see a successful bitcoin project right now, I'm not sure this will be the one.

If the idea is mainly to create a private forum for whales/high bitcoin holders, this is heading down the right path but its still a tough sell unless Elwar has a lot of friends on standby ready to start investing in the BitPools community?   

All that said, any effort that supports Bitcoin in general should be attempted and I commend Elwar for putting in the work to get a site like this running and I wish you & BitPools the best!  



and for the record, hdbuck, there is only one Stewie.....
<-----and he has moving eyes         but I'm humbled you enjoy the design so much.      

[hdbuck]

and for the record, hdbuck, there is only one Stewie.....
<-----and he has moving eyes         but I'm humbled you enjoy the design so much.    

what the deuce?!

i found it on google but kudos if your the one who made it!
too bad i cant have the rolling eyes too tho.. should enter my time machine to upload it as a gif when it was still possible.. annnd buy bitcoins. ^^

[ibminer]

and for the record, hdbuck, there is only one Stewie.....
<-----and he has moving eyes         but I'm humbled you enjoy the design so much.    

what the deuce?!

i found it on google but kudos if your the one who made it!
too bad i cant have the rolling eyes too tho.. should enter my time machine to upload it as a gif when it was still possible.. annnd buy bitcoins. ^^

Its all good, I did make it... didn't think Google had ever crawled it though, I guess it is on there somewhere. The only other place I've uploaded it to was a private forum run by CoinHoarder,  which doesn't exist anymore, but the animation had red eyes.
Regardless, if animations are ever allowed again, I'm sure it will be everywhere. Until then, I can try to remain unique  

[Realpra]

Concrete is brittle, that is why rebar is used, I have built some floating prototypes with concrete with no support and you are right, they fall apart after a few weeks. And concrete actually hardens more when in the water under constant pressure. There are many examples of concrete structures in the ocean. Some WWII structures are still standing.

Here is a very detailed engineering report done addressing most of the engineering challenges:
http://seasteading.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/DeltaSync-Final-Concept-Report.pdf

Personally I will be submitting a design that will get the costs down less than $10k for a small living environment (about dorm room sized). The Seasteading Institute ( http://www.seasteading.org ) is doing a design contest in June which should result in some great concepts.

I agree that being in a harbor under the laws of another country are certainly not ideal. But what we have right now are zero seasteads. This will be the first one. The Wright Brothers' first airplane had terrible food service, the bathrooms were quite uncomfortable and the in flight movie selection was pretty much non-existant. But they had to start somewhere.

I'm not sure about the technical aspects, I just have my doubts. I mean lets say it lasts 200 years with no maintenance before the rebar rusts and the concrete crumbles. That would be very good right?
Ok we build a seastead there so far so good.

Now imagine all of America or all of France disappearing and having to be rebuilt every 200 years. I'm guess that would be devastating economically speaking to our little seastead.

I'll hand you that 1 seastead is better than none if only as a testing ground.


Just remember that people had been building planes 500-1000 years before the Wright brothers, they didn't succeed or start anything because they were the first. They succeeded and the airplane industry was made because they had the newly invented gasoline engine. In other words they had "hyper-diamond".

Anyway I'll give you an idea of my own: Not all areas need the same carrying capacity/stiffness.
If you want large areas you can split them up:
1. Industry/residential: Heavy carrying platforms - like your rebar concrete designs.
2. Gardens, parks, markets and other low weight human accessible ares: Thick sheets of plastic. Due to low load almost no robustness or carrying ability is needed and plastic material creep/breakage will not be major issue. I would suggest multiple linked disc type platforms of this type.
3. Farming: Specialized plants or algae put on basically bubble wrap. Spool bubble wrap into ocean. Spool the other end back and harvest crops. Large area can be utilized easily from a small central heavy platform like this. You could even replace the bubble wrap with tangled seaweed to avoid the need for plastic. Infuse with nutrients in spooling area at night. Nutrients come from sea bottom via sand pump or residential trash. (Seaweed could be fed to cows)

I would also look into capsule hotel designs for the residential areas. It might make it much easier to afford for the poor.

[Elwar]

Concrete is brittle, that is why rebar is used, I have built some floating prototypes with concrete with no support and you are right, they fall apart after a few weeks. And concrete actually hardens more when in the water under constant pressure. There are many examples of concrete structures in the ocean. Some WWII structures are still standing.

Here is a very detailed engineering report done addressing most of the engineering challenges:
http://seasteading.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/DeltaSync-Final-Concept-Report.pdf

Personally I will be submitting a design that will get the costs down less than $10k for a small living environment (about dorm room sized). The Seasteading Institute ( http://www.seasteading.org ) is doing a design contest in June which should result in some great concepts.

I agree that being in a harbor under the laws of another country are certainly not ideal. But what we have right now are zero seasteads. This will be the first one. The Wright Brothers' first airplane had terrible food service, the bathrooms were quite uncomfortable and the in flight movie selection was pretty much non-existant. But they had to start somewhere.

I'm not sure about the technical aspects, I just have my doubts. I mean lets say it lasts 200 years with no maintenance before the rebar rusts and the concrete crumbles. That would be very good right?
Ok we build a seastead there so far so good.

Now imagine all of America or all of France disappearing and having to be rebuilt every 200 years. I'm guess that would be devastating economically speaking to our little seastead.

I'll hand you that 1 seastead is better than none if only as a testing ground.


Just remember that people had been building planes 500-1000 years before the Wright brothers, they didn't succeed or start anything because they were the first. They succeeded and the airplane industry was made because they had the newly invented gasoline engine. In other words they had "hyper-diamond".

Anyway I'll give you an idea of my own: Not all areas need the same carrying capacity/stiffness.
If you want large areas you can split them up:
1. Industry/residential: Heavy carrying platforms - like your rebar concrete designs.
2. Gardens, parks, markets and other low weight human accessible ares: Thick sheets of plastic. Due to low load almost no robustness or carrying ability is needed and plastic material creep/breakage will not be major issue. I would suggest multiple linked disc type platforms of this type.
3. Farming: Specialized plants or algae put on basically bubble wrap. Spool bubble wrap into ocean. Spool the other end back and harvest crops. Large area can be utilized easily from a small central heavy platform like this. You could even replace the bubble wrap with tangled seaweed to avoid the need for plastic. Infuse with nutrients in spooling area at night. Nutrients come from sea bottom via sand pump or residential trash. (Seaweed could be fed to cows)

I would also look into capsule hotel designs for the residential areas. It might make it much easier to afford for the poor.

Good idea on different types of platforms depending upon industry. Plastic is not good for the ocean due to the saltwater but that could change with technology.

There does seem to be a lot of algae science that people bring up. Looks like some great potential.

I will be presenting a capsule type of design to the Seasteading Institute in about a month. The building materials for the smallest living unit (dorm room sized) should be under $2,000 which could get the price between $10-$20k for a finished unit. With the price coming down over time with mass production.