A letter to the members of Bitcointalk forum... from a member...

[Lauda]

I wonder why you never capped the amount of people that can join the campaign? It is all good until it reaches one point at which it starts going the wrong way.
I haven't noticed anyone that was doing crazy amounts of posts get kicked. Although I wonder why bans are less frequent now? Remember back with PD people were getting banned in 'waves'.

Campaigns should probably be limited or capped at something because at one point it becomes overkill and hard to manage. I've been reporting users to marco and he has been kicking most of them off but he and other campaign managers should be doing more to stop spam from happening in the first place or quickly put a stop to it when it happens. Having nearly 200 people on your campaign is impossible to police effectively so you should either cap it to an amount that you can handle or hire someone who will keep an eye on posters. It's in your interest to get on top of things because there wont be any campaigns to manage if this keeps up not to mention having spam participants on your campaign makes both you and the business look bad. I think bit-x has achieved its goal of having its brand spread across the forum and has enough advertisers now and definitely doesn't need any more. It's probably time to have a clean out and only accept new users after you've checked the quality of their posts. If every campaign manager checked the user's posts first before they're accepted poor quality posters would have nowhere to go and be forced to up their game or be outcast.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. After some point the forum gets flooded and disaster strikes the campaign. Honestly I hate the fact that in some threads almost all of the people who replied have the same Bit-x signature. Even if I had something constructive to say, and no I'm not saying that my posts are better than anyone else's (possibly in some cases), I don't reply to that particular thread.
Some have been exponentially increasing their posting rate, and who knows how many have made additional accounts to abuse this.
Since you're staff, may I ask why the bans have slowed down or is that me? I remember that in the past campaigns there were a lot.

[marcotheminer]

[...]
I for one am making sure that avatar ads are as unobtrusive as possible.[...]

Not sure if serious.  If you're browsing with Opera, here's what the rest of us see:

I said avatars.

Yeah. Both your sig and your avatar are ads. Not sure how you see this as being 'as unobtrusive as possible'.

Talking about the avatar: it doesn't take up the entire space.

[marcotheminer]

Just an update on my user checking. I've gotten a list of 25 or so users who will be looked into more and be either kicked, kicked and banned or warned sternly. The warning is for the best of that bunch.

[marcotheminer]

The moment I do something to lower spam, I get retaliatory feedback and a user (leen93) pestering me on all threads of mine plus the Bit-X thread (which I do not own).

Doesn't matter, I'll continue.

[WhatTheGox]

The moment I do something to lower spam, I get retaliatory feedback and a user (leen93) pestering me on all threads of mine plus the Bit-X thread (which I do not own).

Doesn't matter, I'll continue.

What about another approach by rewarding quality like dadice does?

[marcotheminer]

The moment I do something to lower spam, I get retaliatory feedback and a user (leen93) pestering me on all threads of mine plus the Bit-X thread (which I do not own).

Doesn't matter, I'll continue.

What about another approach by rewarding quality like dadice does?

I am happy with the higher quality posts users. There are a few users though who need to improve or will be kicked out and banned.

[umairsaleem]

Whatever you do, even kill all signature campaigns, nothing will help, this forum had changed, yes, it's not that readable as before and full of useless comments, too many people who is not posting for what they want to say, they post for boosting up post counts.

A lot of old Bitcoiners left, this situations is particularly marked in Chinese section. In the past, you can read lots of high quality discussion thread in Chinese section, people talks for what they‘re interested, they really do, and you will be glad to come this forum and join discussion. But now, (In Chinese section) useless craps is everywhere, actually you would find the forum is not that readable as before.

[marcotheminer]

Whatever you do, even kill all signature campaigns, nothing will help, this forum had changed, yes, it's not that readable as before and full of useless comments, too many people who is not posting for what they want to say, they post for boosting up post counts.

A lot of old Bitcoiners left, this situations is particularly marked in Chinese section. In the past, you can read lots of high quality discussion thread in Chinese section, people talks for what they‘re interested, they really do, and you will be glad to come this forum and join discussion. But now, (In Chinese section) useless craps is everywhere, actually you would find the forum is not that readable as before.

If signature campaigns were to be banned, I believe the forum would change a lot.

[WhatTheGox]

Whatever you do, even kill all signature campaigns, nothing will help, this forum had changed, yes, it's not that readable as before and full of useless comments, too many people who is not posting for what they want to say, they post for boosting up post counts.

A lot of old Bitcoiners left, this situations is particularly marked in Chinese section. In the past, you can read lots of high quality discussion thread in Chinese section, people talks for what they‘re interested, they really do, and you will be glad to come this forum and join discussion. But now, (In Chinese section) useless craps is everywhere, actually you would find the forum is not that readable as before.

If signature campaigns were to be banned, I believe the forum would change a lot.

Yup agree on that, bitcoin is @ a low point right now the last thing we need is another hit to the community.  If there is to be a change in the future please make it during a price bubble surge.

[Light]

Whatever you do, even kill all signature campaigns, nothing will help, this forum had changed, yes, it's not that readable as before and full of useless comments, too many people who is not posting for what they want to say, they post for boosting up post counts.

A lot of old Bitcoiners left, this situations is particularly marked in Chinese section. In the past, you can read lots of high quality discussion thread in Chinese section, people talks for what they‘re interested, they really do, and you will be glad to come this forum and join discussion. But now, (In Chinese section) useless craps is everywhere, actually you would find the forum is not that readable as before.

If signature campaigns were to be banned, I believe the forum would change a lot.

Having been here when the campaigns first popped up and became huge (PD comes to mind), there has been such a huge decline in the signal-to-noise ratio on this forum. I used to find topics and discussions that were meaningful, insightful and interesting - but now a lot of the posts are just pure blather and unengaging. There was a stage when I could have a long debate in threads, now I make a point and no one bothers to reply, instead spouting the same old crap time and time again meaning that nothing new interesting emerges.

From a forum standpoint, I think it might have been too late to change things back. Most of the old guard have left - and probably won't come back (except from time to time) even with the removal of signature campaigns. Furthermore, without signature campaigns I can guarantee that a majority of posting would stop (which would be good for the signal-to-noise ratio as only actually relevant stuff would be posted) but the forum would probably slowly die.

[marcotheminer]

Whatever you do, even kill all signature campaigns, nothing will help, this forum had changed, yes, it's not that readable as before and full of useless comments, too many people who is not posting for what they want to say, they post for boosting up post counts.

A lot of old Bitcoiners left, this situations is particularly marked in Chinese section. In the past, you can read lots of high quality discussion thread in Chinese section, people talks for what they‘re interested, they really do, and you will be glad to come this forum and join discussion. But now, (In Chinese section) useless craps is everywhere, actually you would find the forum is not that readable as before.

If signature campaigns were to be banned, I believe the forum would change a lot.

Having been here when the campaigns first popped up and became huge (PD comes to mind), there has been such a huge decline in the signal-to-noise ratio on this forum. I used to find topics and discussions that were meaningful, insightful and interesting - but now a lot of the posts are just pure blather and unengaging. There was a stage when I could have a long debate in threads, now I make a point and no one bothers to reply, instead spouting the same old crap time and time again meaning that nothing new interesting emerges.

From a forum standpoint, I think it might have been too late to change things back. Most of the old guard have left - and probably won't come back (except from time to time) even with the removal of signature campaigns. Furthermore, without signature campaigns I can guarantee that a majority of posting would stop (which would be good for the signal-to-noise ratio as only actually relevant stuff would be posted) but the forum would probably slowly die.

There are only around (at most) 400 members actively participating in signature campaigns (just an educated guess).

If signature campaigns are removed or get extremely strict, the forum will still continue as it did before (think of all the service announcements, service discussions, good trading, lending, and gambling). Of course the forum would slow down, but not to a point of 'death', to a point of normality.

The Bit-X and DaDice campaigns need to be tough on people, I will play my part.

[Sarthak]

Whatever you do, even kill all signature campaigns, nothing will help, this forum had changed, yes, it's not that readable as before and full of useless comments, too many people who is not posting for what they want to say, they post for boosting up post counts.

A lot of old Bitcoiners left, this situations is particularly marked in Chinese section. In the past, you can read lots of high quality discussion thread in Chinese section, people talks for what they‘re interested, they really do, and you will be glad to come this forum and join discussion. But now, (In Chinese section) useless craps is everywhere, actually you would find the forum is not that readable as before.

If signature campaigns were to be banned, I believe the forum would change a lot.

Having been here when the campaigns first popped up and became huge (PD comes to mind), there has been such a huge decline in the signal-to-noise ratio on this forum. I used to find topics and discussions that were meaningful, insightful and interesting - but now a lot of the posts are just pure blather and unengaging. There was a stage when I could have a long debate in threads, now I make a point and no one bothers to reply, instead spouting the same old crap time and time again meaning that nothing new interesting emerges.

From a forum standpoint, I think it might have been too late to change things back. Most of the old guard have left - and probably won't come back (except from time to time) even with the removal of signature campaigns. Furthermore, without signature campaigns I can guarantee that a majority of posting would stop (which would be good for the signal-to-noise ratio as only actually relevant stuff would be posted) but the forum would probably slowly die.

There are only around (at most) 400 members actively participating in signature campaigns (just an educated guess).

If signature campaigns are removed or get extremely strict, the forum will still continue as it did before (think of all the service announcements, service discussions, good trading, lending, and gambling). Of course the forum would slow down, but not to a point of 'death', to a point of normality.

The Bit-X and DaDice campaigns need to be tough on people, I will play my part.

Some people just get enrolled in a campaign and post in threads with range starting from a few word to 2 lines at most! We all have done this (maybe not just for the sake of getting extra money for signature) but some people enrolled in the campaign just have majority of their posts with a few words and one liners (two liners in max). So a good move for both dadice and bit-x would be to maintain the criteria of certain number of characters like Bitmixer forevery post. Bitmixer has the limit of 75 characters per post or the enrolled  memebers wont get paid Same can be done by bit-x and dadice and in order to discourage spams, the number of character limit can be increased for the enrolled members who are found to be "signature spamming"

[WhatTheGox]

Another point is how much extra traffic are signature campaigns bringing into the forum currently - due to extra content, i think now would be a very bad time for any changes, i'd fear for the forum.

[marcotheminer]

Character counts plays no role. I've seen several members (recently Hazir: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=252562, sorry for singling out, there are many others in every campaign) who post long posts which are mostly fluff.

Something like (example only):

Example topic: Where will you see Bitcoin in 10 years?

The topic has already received 20+ pages of replies.

Example reply: I sincerely believe, in my honest opinion, that people will continue using BTC at an accelerating rate due to the benefits it brings forward to society and how it can free us from greedy corporations and central authorities. I believe we will see a huge increase in the number of people that use Bitcoin once developing nations hear about it's advances; but only once they have the adequate infrastructure.


Now that reply is completely useless, it is full of fluff and made for the sole reason to increase a user's post count. It is spam, especially when 20+ of those are made daily. Such a post does not need any knowledge whatsoever to be posted (often common knowledge about Bitcoin is regurgitated for adding to the post count).

Even posts that seem to be 'constructive' are sometimes (often with high posters in signature campaigns); useless spam posts. Hope that makes sense.

[marcotheminer]

Another point is how much extra traffic are signature campaigns bringing into the forum currently - due to extra content, i think now would be a very bad time for any changes, i'd fear for the forum.

There is no extra content, just more views from posters posting for signature earnings (I suspect this is why theymos allows campaigns, to inflate ad views). I could be wrong.

[WhatTheGox]

Another point is how much extra traffic are signature campaigns bringing into the forum currently - due to extra content, i think now would be a very bad time for any changes, i'd fear for the forum.

There is no extra content, just more views from posters posting for signature earnings (I suspect this is why theymos allows campaigns, to inflate ad views). I could be wrong.

People pay for article writers on blogs for extra content, google spiders still go over this forum, it must bring in new members? im not SEO expert mind

[Lauda]

If signature campaigns were to be banned, I believe the forum would change a lot.

Having been here when the campaigns first popped up and became huge (PD comes to mind), there has been such a huge decline in the signal-to-noise ratio on this forum. I used to find topics and discussions that were meaningful, insightful and interesting - but now a lot of the posts are just pure blather and unengaging. There was a stage when I could have a long debate in threads, now I make a point and no one bothers to reply, instead spouting the same old crap time and time again meaning that nothing new interesting emerges.

From a forum standpoint, I think it might have been too late to change things back. Most of the old guard have left - and probably won't come back (except from time to time) even with the removal of signature campaigns. Furthermore, without signature campaigns I can guarantee that a majority of posting would stop (which would be good for the signal-to-noise ratio as only actually relevant stuff would be posted) but the forum would probably slowly die.

No that's not the begging of signature campaigns, is it? Have you participated in Inputs.io? People come and go, you can't change that. The ones that are spamming throughout the day trying to abuse the system are never gonna achieve anything anyways. The old guard should follow their paths and not waste time with such people. I'm pretty sure that if signature campaigns were completely removed or hard restrictions were placed on them that things would start changing.
What normal person would go through all the sections trying to do over 50 posts a day? I'm talking about posts that look okay but serve no purpose and are the result of careful spamming? None. Sure there still would be the usual spammers but they get banned quickly.

[marcotheminer]

My thoughts conveyed perfectly, thank you.

What normal person would go through all the sections trying to do over 50 posts a day? I'm talking about posts that look okay but serve no purpose and are the result of careful spamming? None.

[Light]

No that's not the begging of signature campaigns, is it? Have you participated in Inputs.io? People come and go, you can't change that. The ones that are spamming throughout the day trying to abuse the system are never gonna achieve anything anyways. The old guard should follow their paths and not waste time with such people. I'm pretty sure that if signature campaigns were completely removed or hard restrictions were placed on them that things would start changing.
What normal person would go through all the sections trying to do over 50 posts a day? I'm talking about posts that look okay but serve no purpose and are the result of careful spamming? None. Sure there still would be the usual spammers but they get banned quickly.

PD wasn't an example of the beginning but rather when they became much, much larger. PD at one point held a majority of signatures to the point where there were Meta rants daily. And yes, I was around for the Inputs campaign (and coinchat - which marco should remember) and the whole subsequent scandal and saga. I've been here for an incredibly long time - mostly lurking and taking hiatuses now and then, but I can say with surety that I've found things are vastly different.

From my standpoint, there just isn't anything left to say for us - there just isn't the conversation to be had that there once was - a lot of the new threads and posts are just fluff with little thought or insight.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The monetization of the forum has destroyed the very essence of what discussion is about.

1.Having moderators judge what is and isn't a "substantial post" is like the thought police.

Banning members by judging their contribution to the subjects rather than removing members and posts from running ponzi scams and hyip is absurd.

There are many members here who have turned into professional re-writers.  Topics are filled with them.  Long post with nothing in it.  They post hundreds of spam posts each weekly.  All seem to say something but, if you look at them as a whole, it's the same song and dance over and over reworded to bypass your spam filter.

Signatures aren't going anywhere but i ask you to pay attention and read. 

2.CLICK THE "REPORT TO MODERATOR" button.  It only takes a second.

If you click it they will come!

Statements one and two bite eachother. This is why all campaigns must go imho