Appeal to Sig-Campaign Managers to Exclude "Meta" & "Politics & Society"

[twister]

And I didn't say they were spamming that section but just because they can keep making arguments like we are doing right now, and keep getting paid per post, they don't stop. And they know they won't get in trouble as they're simply discussing their views.

So what's the problem? Why would they 'get in trouble' for making constructive posts? They're not sneakily getting away with something here but for some reason you think they are. Should we ban Meta now because people get into discussions here? Bitcoin Discussion too? It happens all over the forum. That is what discussion forums are about.

If you're going to allow discussions on any topics, then why not allow off-topic discussions too:

Code:

Satoshi Nakamoto - 1,5 million Bitcoins - We need answers 	 	
General Football Discussion 
Water-Powered Cars & Inventors Killed
Scientific proof that God exists?

I believe these are also discussions of some sort, so let's include them too? If you call these off-topics then Politics & Society fall right into that.
Or let's make another board called "Entertainment & Arts" Because some people might not be interested in Politics & Society but they'd love to discuss and get paid talking about whether "Miley Cyrus is a whore or not?"

Wait a minute. That isn't relevant to this problem. If you feel like there should be more sections or some restructuring effort then you might as well suggest it in meta.
One could argue that there aren't enough threads that would fall into that subforum. That's probably why we don't have one. Besides, this is supposed to be a forum about Bitcoin. We should be glad that we already have the sections that we have. Technically they should all fall into off-topic. Anyhow that's a different issue.

The issue are the spammers. Luckily ndnhc and marco are willing to cooperate. What about the other campaigns? I'm not sure how many people are in them but I'm sure that it would still make a difference.

Well I think it is relevant to the problem because I feel that Politics & Society does falls into Off-topic and the discussions taking place in that board shouldn't be counted towards paid post.

So if talking about politics is counted for, why not Entertainment & Arts? I am sure there are Movie/Music/Arts/Games lovers on this forum who have to make their discussions in the Off-topic board. They would love to get paid for them if there was another board for it.

If that's too much than Politics & Society should be considered as Off-topic also and posts/discussions made there shouldn't be counted.

[twister]

And I didn't say they were spamming that section but just because they can keep making arguments like we are doing right now, and keep getting paid per post, they don't stop. And they know they won't get in trouble as they're simply discussing their views.

So what's the problem? Why would they 'get in trouble' for making constructive posts? They're not sneakily getting away with something here but for some reason you think they are. Should we ban Meta now because people get into discussions here? Bitcoin Discussion too? It happens all over the forum. That is what discussion forums are about.

If you're going to allow discussions on any topics, then why not allow off-topic discussions too:

Code:

Satoshi Nakamoto - 1,5 million Bitcoins - We need answers 	 	
General Football Discussion 
Water-Powered Cars & Inventors Killed
Scientific proof that God exists?

I believe these are also discussions of some sort, so let's include them too? If you call these off-topics then Politics & Society fall right into that.

Or let's make another board called "Entertainment & Arts" Because some people might not be interested in Politics & Society but they'd love to discuss and get paid talking about whether "Miley Cyrus is a whore or not?"

Yeah, why not? I don't post shit in spam threads in off-topic as do many others. Off-topic or any other sub forums are not the problem, poor quality posters are. If someone wants to write a 400 word essay on why Miley Cyrus is a whore or not why not let them get paid for that? However, if someone wants to just write 'yes she's a whore' then those people are the problem.

Well that was just an ex. but many posts can be made on other topics which are not politics & society but are about movies, games, music, arts , food and there can be some people who have good knowledge/interest in those and they can discuss about them in long sentences.

So either we call politics & society also an off-topic or we give others another board to discuss all the above and they can discuss about them and get paid for it?

[Bicknellski]

Just left the dadice campaign as they've stop counting post on politics & beginners (where I mostly post). I respect their decision though, there are a lot of rehashed comments saying the same thing over and over again on the beginners board.

How many 'How to earn bitcoin' threads do we really need?

Great SIG now Shogdite... must say not many people Chomsky / Democracy Now it in these forums.

[WhatTheGox]

Its a shame because politics & society kicks arse!, probably my favourite forum on here with gambling. 

[hilariousandco]

Well I think it is relevant to the problem because I feel that Politics & Society does falls into Off-topic and the discussions taking place in that board shouldn't be counted towards paid post.

...in your opinion, which has been stated numerous times is not a solution to the problem at all.

So if talking about politics is counted for, why not Entertainment & Arts? I am sure there are Movie/Music/Arts/Games lovers on this forum who have to make their discussions in the Off-topic board. They would love to get paid for them if there was another board for it.

If that's too much than Politics & Society should be considered as Off-topic also and posts/discussions made there shouldn't be counted.

Well that was just an ex. but many posts can be made on other topics which are not politics & society but are about movies, games, music, arts , food and there can be some people who have good knowledge/interest in those and they can discuss about them in long sentences.

So either we call politics & society also an off-topic or we give others another board to discuss all the above and they can discuss about them and get paid for it?

Because there's likely no need or not enough demand for Entertainments & Arts so they're fine in Off-topic. Why are you so obsessed with getting subs labeled a certain way so they suddenly become worthy of payment or not? Simply calling a sub 'off topic' or creating another one doesn't mean Campaign Managers wont decide to pay for posts in there or not, and besides not all campaigns bar posts in off-topic. If someone was concerned about that they would just join a campaign that doesn't anyway.

[twister]

Well I think it is relevant to the problem because I feel that Politics & Society does falls into Off-topic and the discussions taking place in that board shouldn't be counted towards paid post.

...in your opinion, which has been stated numerous times is not a solution to the problem at all.

So if talking about politics is counted for, why not Entertainment & Arts? I am sure there are Movie/Music/Arts/Games lovers on this forum who have to make their discussions in the Off-topic board. They would love to get paid for them if there was another board for it.

If that's too much than Politics & Society should be considered as Off-topic also and posts/discussions made there shouldn't be counted.

Well that was just an ex. but many posts can be made on other topics which are not politics & society but are about movies, games, music, arts , food and there can be some people who have good knowledge/interest in those and they can discuss about them in long sentences.

So either we call politics & society also an off-topic or we give others another board to discuss all the above and they can discuss about them and get paid for it?

Because there's likely no need or not enough demand for Entertainments & Arts so they're fine in Off-topic. Why are you so obsessed with getting subs labeled a certain way so they suddenly become worthy of payment or not? Simply calling a sub 'off topic' or creating another one doesn't mean Campaign Managers wont decide to pay for posts in there or not, and besides not all campaigns bar posts in off-topic. If someone was concerned about that they would just join a campaign that doesn't anyway.

Not obsessed man, simply posting my opinion.

How is one's interest considered on-topic while others off-topic? Maybe you like Politics, other might like movies.

So the person talking about politics is right and is not making insubstantial posts and the person talking about movies is?

[redsn0w]

I agree with the Quickseller's idea, the signature campaign maintainers should accept only the valid users (check them with the last posts). We should remember also another thing, what is the problem : the post or the sig ad?

[Quickseller]

I don't think you understand what the "off-topic" section is for. It is for any discussion/topic that may be of interest to bitcoineers that do not fit elsewhere in the forum. If there is a thread anywhere in the forum and a post is not specifically discussing the OP in some way then that post is off topic and should be deleted.

The off-topic section is filled with shit threads like 'your favorite drink', 'how long you have been logged in', 'your favorite...'; IMO any thread (especially those in off-topic) that can easily be responded to by many people with just one sentence should be disallowed as there is not any actual conversation that takes place in these types of threads. There are however many threads in the Off-topic section that have good conversation. The off topic section needs to be seriously cleaned up.

If people are having meaningful conversation anywhere in the forum there is no valid reason to exclude posts that are being made as others will read such posts and potentially will respond. The question if an additional sub should be created is off topic.

Let me ask you this, it meaningful conversation is taking place in any part of the forum then why should posts not be paid for if a company is receiving advertising? Don't you think it would be a better solution to not pay for posts that just fill up space and are shit, regardless of where they are posted?

[hilariousandco]

Not obsessed man, simply posting my opinion.

How is one's interest considered on-topic while others off-topic? Maybe you like Politics, other might like movies.

So the person talking about politics is right and is not making insubstantial posts and the person talking about movies is?

Are you reading what I'm writing? I've already argued against this and certain sections being paid and others not. It's you who's arguing for more subs to be barred from payment, so yes, how is one's interest considered on-topic while others off-topic? You're the one saying certain things are ok or not or right and wrong. And you're obsessed with the idea that off-topic = nobody should or does get paid for these because in your opinion they shouldn't therefore politics is also like off topic and also shouldn't be paid, but it is only certain campaigns that even deduct posts from off-topic, not a forum rule. You're clearly still looking at this from an angle of it's a universal rule that nobody gets paid for posting in off-topic when that just isn't the case, and like I've said multiple times it's not the sections but the posters that are the problem so pay for posts in off-topic or politics as long as they're relevant and constructive.

[twister]

I don't think you understand what the "off-topic" section is for. It is for any discussion/topic that may be of interest to bitcoineers that do not fit elsewhere in the forum. If there is a thread anywhere in the forum and a post is not specifically discussing the OP in some way then that post is off topic and should be deleted.

The off-topic section is filled with shit threads like 'your favorite drink', 'how long you have been logged in', 'your favorite...'; IMO any thread (especially those in off-topic) that can easily be responded to by many people with just one sentence should be disallowed as there is not any actual conversation that takes place in these types of threads. There are however many threads in the Off-topic section that have good conversation. The off topic section needs to be seriously cleaned up.

If people are having meaningful conversation anywhere in the forum there is no valid reason to exclude posts that are being made as others will read such posts and potentially will respond. The question if an additional sub should be created is off topic.

Let me ask you this, it meaningful conversation is taking place in any part of the forum then why should posts not be paid for if a company is receiving advertising? Don't you think it would be a better solution to not pay for posts that just fill up space and are shit, regardless of where they are posted?

Thank you. Yes, that's exactly my point. If I love to talk about Movies/Music/Games and want to discuss something about those then why it is that it should be considered off-topic? (Because that's the only place I can discuss those)

And only people discussing about Politics & Society be considered meaningful.

If you're just going to label it as a place where people talk non-sense, then I can argue that people writing HUGE ass posts on why a religion is good or not is also non-sense and should be considered as off-topic.

Not obsessed man, simply posting my opinion.

How is one's interest considered on-topic while others off-topic? Maybe you like Politics, other might like movies.

So the person talking about politics is right and is not making insubstantial posts and the person talking about movies is?

Are you reading what I'm writing? I've already argued against this and certain sections being paid and others not. It's you who's arguing for more subs to be barred from payment, so yes, how is one's interest considered on-topic while others off-topic? You're the one saying certain things are ok or not or right and wrong. And you're obsessed with the idea that off-topic = nobody should or does get paid for these because in your opinion they shouldn't therefore politics is also like off topic and also shouldn't be paid, but it is only certain campaigns that even deduct posts from off-topic, not a forum rule. You're clearly still looking at this from an angle of it's a universal rule that nobody gets paid for posting in off-topic when that just isn't the case, and like I've said multiple times it's not the sections but the posters that are the problem so pay for posts in off-topic or politics as long as they're relevant and constructive.

No man, I did read, you're simply not getting the point.

Just tell me what is considered off-topic and what is considered as on-topic?

If I wanted to talk about Movies/Music, where would I post? In off-topic right? And no matter how meaningful the discussion there is, it will be considered as worthless.

But all the non-sense topics in Politics & Society are meaningful?

[arallmuus]

I agree with the Quickseller's idea, the signature campaign maintainers should accept only the valid users (check them with the last posts). We should remember also another thing, what is the problem : the post or the sig ad?

Agree, someones' helpfull post in the excluded should not be exclude just because the board is being excluded for payment. Best thing to do for the campaign manager is to check on this personally. It is not a spam if someone give an answer to a question about what is a sign message in beginners boards, it is a spam when there are more than 2 same useless answer about that


Cheers

[Quickseller]

I don't see your point. Why are you asking signature campaign managers to exclude posts made in the politics section? There is meaningful conversation there, probably more so then in many other sections.

I would repeat my solution to shit posts in the forum would be for campaign managers to do a better job of weeding out shit-posters.

[arallmuus]

I don't see your point. Why are you asking signature campaign managers to exclude posts made in the politics section? There is meaningful conversation there, probably more so then in many other sections.

I would repeat my solution to shit posts in the forum would be for campaign managers to do a better job of weeding out shit-posters.

this goes as well as my solution for this problem. By excluding some boards it will be like mitigating the spammers to another boards. In the end this will not stop the problem of the spam posts itself but rather move it. Best thing to do is the campaign manager need to be stricter and denied payment for everyone who did a shit posts whatsoever

[twister]

I don't see your point. Why are you asking signature campaign managers to exclude posts made in the politics section? There is meaningful conversation there, probably more so then in many other sections.

I would repeat my solution to shit posts in the forum would be for campaign managers to do a better job of weeding out shit-posters.

I am asking that because I consider them as off-topic. Let me ask you this, where would a person who wants to discuss about Movies or Music post? in off-topic right? And that's not paid for because it is considered useless.

But people arguing whether a religion is right or not is meaningful and paid for? How can that be fair?

How can you say that a person's interests and his discussion on that matter is meaningful while others are not?

Either include both or exclude both.

[redsn0w]

I don't see your point. Why are you asking signature campaign managers to exclude posts made in the politics section? There is meaningful conversation there, probably more so then in many other sections.

I would repeat my solution to shit posts in the forum would be for campaign managers to do a better job of weeding out shit-posters.

this goes as well as my solution for this problem. By excluding some boards it will be like mitigating the spammers to another boards. In the end this will not stop the problem of the spam posts itself but rather move it. Best thing to do is the campaign manager need to be stricter and denied payment for everyone who did a shit posts whatsoever

It seems that it doesn't exist a real solution for the problem, because the solution is not 'ban some forum section'.  @hilariousandco, can I ask you what do you think about the signature campaigns? Ban or not?

[shogdite]

Just left the dadice campaign as they've stop counting post on politics & beginners (where I mostly post). I respect their decision though, there are a lot of rehashed comments saying the same thing over and over again on the beginners board.

How many 'How to earn bitcoin' threads do we really need?

Great SIG now Shogdite... must say not many people Chomsky / Democracy Now it in these forums.

Thanks mate. Democracy Now is by far my favourite news site, they recently started accepting bitcoin:  http://www.democracynow.org/ways_to_donate/bitcoin 

Huge fan of Chomsky aswell, he's an intellectual powerhouse when it comes to politics.

[Hazir]

How about instead of banning certain sections of forum in order to prevent spamming we impose on signature campaigns limit of posts participants can get paid for?
Something like forum rule that only weekly you can get paid for xx posts only, every post above that won't be counted. Is that good option to regulate this or not?

[redsn0w]

I don't see your point. Why are you asking signature campaign managers to exclude posts made in the politics section? There is meaningful conversation there, probably more so then in many other sections.

I would repeat my solution to shit posts in the forum would be for campaign managers to do a better job of weeding out shit-posters.

I am asking that because I consider them as off-topic. Let me ask you this, where would a person who wants to discuss about Movies or Music post? in off-topic right? And that's not paid for because it is considered useless.

But people arguing whether a religion is right or not is meaningful and paid for? How can that be fair?

Argue about religions is more useful than talk about what kind of music do you like, or am I wrong?

How can you say that a person's interests and his discussion on that matter is meaningful while others are not?

Either include both or exclude both.

This is the problem, everyone here think that if someone is wearing a sig ad is 'padding his post count' but this is not against the rules (if your posts are substantial and constructive). We should not generalize ....

[erikalui]

Basically the OP is saying that since Politics & Society isn't discussing bitcoins and is considered off topic, and since off topic board is excluded, the former section as well should be excluded. Others are arguing that till there is a meaningful discussion going on, the board shouldn't be excluded.

Off topic board is excluded as people usually don't have an interesting discussion there and mostly people tend to spam there by asking weird discussions while this isn't the case with Politics & Society. There are some who are making pointless posts there but they are actually having a discussion whether it's senseless to us or not. I basically don't like people abusing any religion but the fact is there people are having some kind of discussion (disregarding members who are posting off topic replies in those threads).


I believe that till a person isn't spamming, there should be no reason for the manager of a signature campaign to exclude a board. If the manager feels that his website/advertisement isn't being benefited by posts in a particular section, the manager is free to exclude a section but if people mainly spam a board (like it is the case with the off topic board), then it shouldn't be allowed and the off topic board needs to be moderated as to what topics are allowed and what aren't as then all will start making spam posts there. That board is also talking about Entertainment/Sports/Art and it's admin's wish to make a sub section on it (which I guess is not necessary as it's not about bitcoins) and if the member wants to discuss the movies there, they can as now also there is a thread on the movies you watched. Nobody is stopping them from doing so and if managers feel that if there is a serious discussion in the off topic board, I guess it might as well be included.

[twister]

I don't see your point. Why are you asking signature campaign managers to exclude posts made in the politics section? There is meaningful conversation there, probably more so then in many other sections.

I would repeat my solution to shit posts in the forum would be for campaign managers to do a better job of weeding out shit-posters.

I am asking that because I consider them as off-topic. Let me ask you this, where would a person who wants to discuss about Movies or Music post? in off-topic right? And that's not paid for because it is considered useless.

But people arguing whether a religion is right or not is meaningful and paid for? How can that be fair?

Argue about religions is more useful than talk about what kind of music do you like, or am I wrong?

Maybe it will be useful for person who follows a religion, to others who doesn't it would be useless. Same thing can be said about any interests. Me I like movies but to you, the discussion may feel not worthy.

So my point is either include other off-topic posts which are meaningful too or consider the politics as off-topic too. You can't say 1 is bad and the other is good. They're both interests.

Some people hate politics but they like Entertainment but can they discuss about it and get paid? No
So it seems like certain interests are paid for while others are not. As I said, Either include both or exclude both.