J2ME Light BTC Client Status

[miscreanity]

There's a massive J2ME market out there just waiting to dabble in Bitcoin the way M-Pesa caught on. Last I knew, some efforts had been attempted, but nothing substantial of late.

Does anyone know more?

Also, has anything been done with the Asterisk setup?

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[freetx]

Well, bitcoinj libraries run on Android - it powers the Bitcoin Wallet App for Google Play:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

[Coincomm]

Well, bitcoinj libraries run on Android - it powers the Bitcoin Wallet App for Google Play:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

Poor people don't use Android. They need what the OP is advocating. That's the whole point.

[freetx]

Well, bitcoinj libraries run on Android - it powers the Bitcoin Wallet App for Google Play:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

Poor people don't use Android. They need what the OP is advocating. That's the whole point.

Its actually a fairly ill conceived idea. Even downloading just headers for a lite client requires 20MB of download at current....how do you expect "poor people" to do that on their Nokia? This doesn't mention the CPU power needed to do the crypto stuff (will probably require 32-bit for pub-priv key)

Anyway, the prices for a no-contract Android at Walmart are just $50. No doubt these prices will fall faster than engineering effort into getting pub-priv key cryptography running on a 8bit micro.

[apetersson]

if you want to target that platform i suggest implementing a good SMS-based service and getting contracts with carriers to have free SMS for you.

[Coincomm]

Well, bitcoinj libraries run on Android - it powers the Bitcoin Wallet App for Google Play:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet

Poor people don't use Android. They need what the OP is advocating. That's the whole point.

Its actually a fairly ill conceived idea. Even downloading just headers for a lite client requires 20MB of download at current....how do you expect "poor people" to do that on their Nokia? This doesn't mention the CPU power needed to do the crypto stuff (will probably require 32-bit for pub-priv key)

Anyway, the prices for a no-contract Android at Walmart are just $50. No doubt these prices will fall faster than engineering effort into getting pub-priv key cryptography running on a 8bit micro.

When I say poor people, I am talking about third-world, living in slums poor people. Not college student "I only eat Ramen noodles and live in a studio apartment" poor, which really isn't poor at all if people had a grip on reality.

$50 is a monthly salary for most of the world.

Anyways, liteclients can even do without headers with the right node configuration. I don't see any reason why we can't get Bitcoin into the hands of Africans who transact with Nokias as their means of living. The solutions are feasible.

[freetx]

When I say poor people, I am talking about third-world, living in slums poor people. Not college student "I only eat Ramen noodles and live in a studio apartment" poor, which really isn't poor at all if people had a grip on reality.

$50 is a monthly salary for most of the world.

Anyways, liteclients can even do without headers with the right node configuration. I don't see any reason why we can't get Bitcoin into the hands of Africans who transact with Nokias as their means of living. The solutions are feasible.

You just defined bitcoin out of the equation. Someone that lives on $50 a month doesnt have enough money for bitcoin. Who is he going to pay with it? You think the goat farmer two huts down accepts it? Its cash only at those levels by necessity.

You are trying to design a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist.

If and when bitcoin ever gets so pervasive that its used in those types of areas, it will be down on hand-me-down $10 androids. Or more likely from the "internet cafe's" computer which runs a community wallet service for a fee....Not some bitcoin over SMS on 16k micros.....

[HeavyMetal]

The phone could simply hold the private keys and be able to sign transactions that the server generated for it after displaying it to the user for confirmation. This would require very little resources such as CPU or bandwidth.

This is a great idea, I have family in other countries and it is so expensive to send money.

Mpesa is used by millions in everyday transactions, bitcoin could steal that market no problem with its low fees.

[Coincomm]

When I say poor people, I am talking about third-world, living in slums poor people. Not college student "I only eat Ramen noodles and live in a studio apartment" poor, which really isn't poor at all if people had a grip on reality.

$50 is a monthly salary for most of the world.

Anyways, liteclients can even do without headers with the right node configuration. I don't see any reason why we can't get Bitcoin into the hands of Africans who transact with Nokias as their means of living. The solutions are feasible.

You just defined bitcoin out of the equation. Someone that lives on $50 a month doesnt have enough money for bitcoin. Who is he going to pay with it? You think the goat farmer two huts down accepts it? Its cash only at those levels by necessity.

You are trying to design a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist.

If and when bitcoin ever gets so pervasive that its used in those types of areas, it will be down on hand-me-down $10 androids. Or more likely from the "internet cafe's" computer which runs a community wallet service for a fee....Not some bitcoin over SMS on 16k micros.....

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/427287/bitcoin-seeks-new-life-in-africa/

People in Africa live and die by their cellphones being able to make monetary transactions. Cash is garbage in Africa because the banks suck.

You have no understanding of the third-world.

[Coincomm]

Also:

http://mobilemoneyafrica.com/bitcoin-will-revolutionize-how-africans-transact-rudiger-koch/

[freetx]

You have no understanding of the third-world.

A funny thing about the internet is you never really know who you are talking to. I've lived in the third world for a decade, so I would say I have a fairly good understanding of what daily life looks like.

Posting Intersango / Bitcoinica blog spam about what they imagine the future to be, isn't going to change the fact that, at present there is little for poor africans to spend their bitcoins on, hence no real market demand for it.

I'm not here to rain on your parade, I mean are you actively working on porting the client to work on low-memory / low-cpu devices? Or are you just advocating that "someone else" do it.....because if its the later, my answer is: I'm not interested.

[freetx]

The phone could simply hold the private keys and be able to sign transactions that the server generated for it after displaying it to the user for confirmation. This would require very little resources such as CPU or bandwidth.

This is a great idea, I have family in other countries and it is so expensive to send money.

Mpesa is used by millions in everyday transactions, bitcoin could steal that market no problem with its low fees.

Bitcoin as a replacement for Western Union is an awesome idea. But more than likely this is going to spring up because there are service providers (ie. internet cafes) that start offering the community lower rates than Western Union can do. In this case Bitcoin will likely just be the transport mechanism (ie. EUR -> BTC -> THB), not that the end recipient actually desires to hold bitcoin.

[HeavyMetal]

You just defined bitcoin out of the equation. Someone that lives on $50 a month doesnt have enough money for bitcoin. Who is he going to pay with it? You think the goat farmer two huts down accepts it? Its cash only at those levels by necessity.

You clearly have never been to Africa. People do send money with their cell phones to the guy two huts over using mpesa. You can go into almost any shop and trade cash to top off your phone or withdraw cash, even for very small amounts of money. Any shopkeeper with cash and a cell phone can provide this service and they do.

The bitcoin model would work wonderfully there. The fact that you can buy USD with bitcoins will allow a consistent basis of exchange rate and a source of trust. This could really take off considering the fees for mpesa are not cheap.

http://www.offbeatearth.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/cell-phone-ear.jpg

[freetx]

You clearly have never been to Africa. People do send money with their cell phones to the guy two huts over using mpesa. You can go into almost any shop and trade cash to top off your phone or withdraw cash, even for very small amounts of money. Any shopkeeper with cash and a cell phone can provide this service and they do.

The bitcoin model would work wonderfully there. The fact that you can buy USD with bitcoins will allow a consistent basis of exchange rate and a source of trust. This could really take off considering the fees for mpesa are not cheap.

I have been to Africa. Several times.

Explain in some detail how you envision this working technically? Why wouldn't you just use an online wallet - or more likely an online wallet that can be interfaced via SMS?

[Jan]

The phone could simply hold the private keys and be able to sign transactions that the server generated for it after displaying it to the user for confirmation. This would require very little resources such as CPU or bandwidth.

This is a great idea, I have family in other countries and it is so expensive to send money.

Mpesa is used by millions in everyday transactions, bitcoin could steal that market no problem with its low fees.

This is what BitcoinSpinner for Android does. Let me know if you are interested in porting it.