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Question: How do you classify yourself religiously?
Atheist - 91 (51.1%)
Agnostic - 23 (12.9%)
Buddhist - 4 (2.2%)
Christian - Protestant - 13 (7.3%)
Christian - Roman Catholic - 8 (4.5%)
Christian - Other - 12 (6.7%)
Confucianist - 0 (0%)
Diest - 3 (1.7%)
Hindu - 0 (0%)
Islamic - 2 (1.1%)
Pagan / Newage - 3 (1.7%)
Taoist - 0 (0%)
Other - 16 (9%)
Don't know - 3 (1.7%)
Total Voters: 177

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Author Topic: Religious Orientation  (Read 14169 times)
foxcartier
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June 11, 2011, 04:14:03 PM
 #141


Matthew 5:

This was where the famous sermon on the mount was taking place in front of a vast amount of Jews, including Pharisees. It was important for Jesus to address issues of the law which we see here.

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“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets

Law and the prophets was a regular expression used to address the Old Testament. What Jesus said, then, was the Old Testament as a body of "God-breathed" literature would not be set aside or abolished, His concern was not specifically the Ten Commandments or other various laws. It was the entire Old Testament.

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I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

Jesus was a manifestation of the prophecies listed in the OT, that is, he was directly fulfilling the words listed. He came to obey the holy scriptures while giving his complete translation and to emphasize that the scriptures point to his as Messiah.

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For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Accomplished = Jesus sacrifice.

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Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was talking about the Beatitudes and the rest of his sermon, not OT law. That's what happens when you take stuff out of context Sad

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For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Common belief at that time was that you had to obey every law and basically be perfect to enter heaven. This was a direct shot at the hypocrites which included the Pharisees.


*DEEP BREATH* 5 MORE
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foxcartier
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June 11, 2011, 04:29:09 PM
 #142

Matt 10

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I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

First lets get one thing straight, Jesus does not mean a literal "sword", he is referencing to his own word (Hebrews 4:12: For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.) if you are suggesting Jesus is saying violence is the answer we know that not to be the case because during his arrest when the disciple Peter cut off one of the arresters ears, Jesus immediately rebuked him and healed the person before being hauled off to his trial.

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“‘a man against his father,
   a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
   36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

The historical context of this time is the Jewish culture. Assuming that Jesus knew he won't be alive to preach to the population of the gentiles, his main focus was to the crowds of Jews around him. This was certainly a harsh time to switch religion as there was no separation of church and state in Israel. So anyone who was going to try to switch to following Jesus was going to meet confrontation from their family, hence why Jesus is pitting people against each other.

ALSO Jesus was paraphrasing the old prophet Micah who spoke of the coming of Jesus.

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Micah 7:5-6: Do not trust a neighbor; put no confidence in a friend. Even with her who lies in your embrace be careful of your words. For a son dishonors his father, a daughter rises up against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies are the members of his own household.

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  37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

God is first, you love him more then anything on Earth as it is flawed and sinful. Taking up the cross is referencing following the path of righteousness that Jesus walked. The last bit is about martyrdom and how it holds a special place in Christianity.
 
foxcartier
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June 11, 2011, 04:33:55 PM
 #143


2 Thessalonians 1:



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All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Around this time Christians were being persecuted by the droves for their beliefs. This was addressing the concern of Christians wanting to rise up and rebel against society. However, it was assured that in the end everyone will get their just desserts. I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me with this passage, it's well known that there is a hell and heaven in Christianity, it's not all sunshine and roses.
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June 11, 2011, 04:35:15 PM
 #144

It's Sunday school all over again.
foxcartier
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June 11, 2011, 04:37:04 PM
 #145


1 Timothy 1:



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8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

PROPERLY. Following the law certainly can't hurt. Under Christian doctrine it is a sin to commit homosexual acts (I'm assuming you're trying to trap me with this point) but it's basically the same thing to lust after a person of the opposite gender outside of marriage. People aren't perfect, God knows this, but we are to try to follow as best as we can, especially those who commit all sorts of immoral acts which are listed.
foxcartier
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June 11, 2011, 04:37:48 PM
 #146

It's Sunday school all over again.

Well I mean they sort of asked for it? Just upholding my duty to educate against the wrong doings of miss quoting things.
foxcartier
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June 11, 2011, 04:46:13 PM
 #147

1 Timothy 5:


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No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, 10 and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the Lord’s people, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds.

Christianity in the beginning all shared their resources, and it was the communities duty to help protect and give aid to those who find themselves at misfortune.. sort of like disability aid or unemployment. However... surprise surprise people were abusing the system, this and the scriptures surrounding this piece were addressing the issue.

1 Timothy 6:

False Teachers and the Love of Money

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These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

1 Timothy addressed the issue of false prophets at this point in the church's history. It was important to dispute these teachers as false before they did too much damage to the church. Greed is bad, blah blah blah, should be content. People when they get a great deal of money change, I don't think you can argue that. If you can handle money and not fall into temptation this doesn't apply to you... but if that is one of your vices this verse address you.

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20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, 21 which some have professed and in so doing have departed from the faith.

Once again... talking about the false prophets.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's easy to take a bible verse and take it out of context to make it look bad, in the future I would encourage you to read a bit more into whats going around to make the words important Smiley
 
BombaUcigasa
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June 11, 2011, 05:25:15 PM
 #148

Following the law certainly can't hurt.
You don't say?!....
Basiley
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June 11, 2011, 05:48:15 PM
 #149

By that image, do you mean awsome? Cheesy

I believe the phrase is "rainbows and unicorns"


rainbow and unicorns belong to Celtic/druidic branch of Pagan[not "new-age" :].
dayfall
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June 12, 2011, 03:30:43 PM
 #150

 
I'm always opened minded, but when someone posts a link to a scientific formula or theorem that is grounded in complex mathematical algorithms, I'm not going to waste my time to try to begin to understand.

So, you basic strategy is this: Your personal god did X, until scientists get a firm grasp on it, then you god didn't' do it.   Hmm, strange you think your god is the default explanation.

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Life is full of mystery that needs faith to some degree. If it helps my functionality to behave in a moral sense why would it be bad?

No, we need admittance of ignorance.  Not inventing gods to fill gaps. 

How does faith that the creator of the universe was uncreated help you to be moral?  Walk me through this please.

Faith is bad because you boast that you know something that you don't.  If you convince yourself that you know something, then it is still lying.  Self deceit is still deceit.  You can't just assert that faith is needed and is the correct approach to universe creation ( or any other subject). 

Life is full of mystery SO THE CORRECT ANSWER IS I DON"T KNOW.

Fixed it for you.
foxcartier
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June 12, 2011, 03:43:36 PM
 #151

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So, you basic strategy is this: Your personal god did X, until scientists get a firm grasp on it, then you god didn't' do it.   Hmm, strange you think your god is the default explanation.

My strategy is this: God did x if I don't have all of the evidence that he did or didn't it really doesn't matter. CALL ME BRAINWASHED BRO.

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How does faith that the creator of the universe was uncreated help you to be moral?  Walk me through this please.

There is a divine being that loves me and thinks that I'm special. I in turn think the rest of humanity is individually special and to the best of my ability love my fellow man. Even you.

How does "belief" that there was no creator of the universe help you to be moral? Walk me through this please.

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Faith is bad because you boast that you know something that you don't.  If you convince yourself that you know something, then it is still lying.  Self deceit is still deceit.  You can't just assert that faith is needed and is the correct approach to universe creation ( or any other subject). 

So are you saying that you know everything about how the universe was created with 100% certainty?

Damn, I don't think I could ever do that.

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Life is full of mystery SO THE CORRECT ANSWER IS I DON"T KNOW AS WELL.
Fixed it for you.
dayfall
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June 15, 2011, 06:39:29 PM
 #152

CALL ME BRAINWASHED BRO.

Evidence makes no difference.  Check.

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There is a divine being that loves me and thinks that I'm special. I in turn think the rest of humanity is individually special and to the best of my ability love my fellow man. Even you.

And if the universe cam about by some other unknown way then you would not love you fellow man.  Check.

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How does "belief" that there was no creator of the universe help you to be moral? Walk me through this please.

It doesn't.  I never said it did.  My belief in the universe being purposefully created or not has no bearing on my morality.

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So are you saying that you know everything about how the universe was created with 100% certainty?

I never said that.   "100% certainty" is a red herring.  Nice try.  Why do Christians think that "Well, you don't have 100% certainty. So God exists." is even an argument?

You are the one claiming that faith is a good thing when it comes to claiming how the universe came about.  I don't "KNOW" you are wrong, but I do know you don't "KNOW".  I say you don't even have a clue.

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Life is full of mystery SO THE CORRECT ANSWER IS I DON"T KNOW AS WELL.

Baloney.  When you prey to Jesus you are saying to yourself that you know he is the creator of the universe.  I might be wrong and you prey to other gods, but I am pretty sure you think you have it all figured out.  And you justify yourself by, well, faith is good because it keeps you moral. 

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June 15, 2011, 06:58:07 PM
 #153

Who cares if karma/vishnu/Ra/YHWH/Allah exist-- it is unprovable, bracket the question, move on.

The thing that we should dwell on, however, is the question of "Is religion a force for good?"

But as for silly religions:

I'll give you a hint, in the style of Glenn Beck: Don't you think it is funny, don't you think it is HILARIOUSLY coincidental... and I know you're gonna think I'm crazy, yeah, I'm crazy, totally bonkers. Well, guess what? Who else was called crazy before they were executed? The jews. So yeah, I guess I'm crazy. But you know the secret? Moron is one letter different from mormon, and that's not the only thing they share in common.

Unfortunately, I'm without a blackboard on this forum. Modeled on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcnuvjh-S8E
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June 16, 2011, 08:04:21 AM
 #154

The truth is only here and now. Anything else is just theory, this include past and future. This includes the proximity beyond our senses. Bitcoins are real becuase they are here. When they are gone there energy will trancend into history text books. Bitcoins will be just an earthly memory just as jesus and buhhda abd aliah and anything else that dosent exist. I officially dont believe in any religioin of the past is truth at this time. I believe in the truth,  here and now, with my present senses of perception. Past religions magic are only present in the past. This is here and now; the only truth, and right now bitcoins exist and thats our miricale made by everyone here and now . That analogy is kind of how i view religion in the sense that es there most deffinatly was a jesus and did wonder full things and there most deffinatly was a budda showing peace and humbleness and most noteably gaundi stopped wars. Back then they didnt have schools that taught about people who did the same, becuase the whole world was chaos everyone was too busy trying to break down new boundries cross seas to find new lands, pirates killing and claiming ships. Im just trying to say that maybe over time the constant laws of nature slowly change over time making new laws for humans to constantly discover and the old ones slowly decay.

So my conclusion is that the universe knows whats going to happen in the future so in the past where their was tons of mircles becuase they couldnt be captured by anything including camera phones, or high deff video camera or the internet for the instructions to be sent virally to exploit these miracles. No the rules changed as the faster and easier information could be sent now the universe has different rules more secure rules that in order to do miracles it goes beyond just knowing the information.
 I wont tell you the answer to the new rules put in place other wise the universe will change the rules again thus making me seeem like a lyer becuase by the time you attempt the new rules you wont be here and now when the rules were present and now the here and now rules.

Know the truth.
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June 16, 2011, 04:02:01 PM
 #155


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That is awesome. Please read what you wrote again and again. "I don't have a Phd but I know from my non-education than those who have are wrong". That… wow…
That's why I always say that faith is a synonym for stupidity. You are convinced that you are right, no matter what.

Attacking people personally in religious debates is always cool. Why you mad bro?


I think it's a rather important point. I don't attack you. I say that faith is stupidity. Believing in something is a stupid act. But we all do stupid thing and good thing. I don't attack you, I attack the whole idea of faith. And the fact that you consider that, because of your faith, you are right over some people who have a phd, could be considered as a stupid act itself, which tends to agree with my vision of "faith is stupid".

It doesn't mean that people who have faith are stupid (even if it is proven than, statistically, the IQ is inversely correlated with the religiousness of people). It only means that people who have faith are doing stupid. Loosing my time on this forum could also be considered as stupid, I admit, I'm also doing a lot of stupid things in my life ;-)

Blog posts about Bitcoin - 1KdRBbhjo72CqKTrFsQed6s9NMrvwvrUkq
Vince Torres
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June 17, 2011, 09:36:46 PM
 #156

Atheism is a more popular religion than judaism. Thanks a lot Hitler...

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bcearl
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June 18, 2011, 03:04:19 PM
 #157

i'm a catolic guy Smiley and i like the budism too Cheesy

Do you like it or do you believe it?

Misspelling protects against dictionary attacks NOT
bcearl
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June 18, 2011, 03:10:20 PM
 #158

Atheism is a more popular religion than judaism. Thanks a lot Hitler...

Hitler. The most famous catholic.

Misspelling protects against dictionary attacks NOT
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June 19, 2011, 01:06:07 AM
 #159

51.5% Atheist. Makes sense. Bitcoin is a force toward decentralizing society. The majority of religions think of "god" as higher than yourself, including some of the religions where everyone is some part of "god". Most religious people, at the core of their minds, think things should be organized into hierarchies, which influences society toward hierarchies like governments, banks, department of motor vehicles, server over client, etc. Bitcoin influences society toward the opposite, decentralization, so it makes sense why Atheists would like Bitcoin more than Theists like it.

My religion is closest to buddhism, panpsychism, pantheism, nihilism, and probably a few I forgot, but with the important difference that the multiverse is a decentralized system of patterns in general which interact with eachother. I don't have much choice about what religious ideas to believe since I've moved small things with my mind almost 1000 times (like in this "psi wheel in a clear closed box 2" video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKJGb4RNRB4 ), out of body experiences verified after I came back, and that's just the smaller stuff thats easy to explain. I don't have faith. I know from experience, if I think something in just the right way, it will really happen (force depends on accuracy of thoughts as described by the uncertainty equation applied to the fluid dynamics of parallel realities also known as parts of a wavefunction), and anyone can learn the same skill.

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June 19, 2011, 04:37:36 AM
 #160

George has it right.
http://youtu.be/gPOfurmrjxo

"A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain." - Mark Twain
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