XPY Paycoin Paul Revere, TheMage, The community on forking, the future etc.

[miaviator]

Ownership of the blockchain?

Decentralized governance, property, ownership and claim?

[Crestington]

Ownership of the blockchain?

Decentralized governance, property, ownership and claim?

The ultimate question, who deserves what?

[iGotSpots]

If they dislike the leadership so much, the community could just fork it on their own and get everyone to upgrade to their version..

[Crestington]

If they dislike the leadership so much, the community could just fork it on their own and get everyone to upgrade to their version..

That's what I said and everyone gets morally objective

Btw, congrats on going to moonbase, did you get to get to try out the stimulator? they got anti-gravity there? It looked HUGE is your pictures

[miaviator]

If they dislike the leadership so much, the community could just fork it on their own and get everyone to upgrade to their version..

That's what I said and everyone gets morally objective

Btw, congrats on going to moonbase, did you get to get to try out the stimulator? they got anti-gravity there? It looked HUGE is your pictures

I believe if this is discussed in the context TheMage is referencing via non-paycoin the discussion could be much more in depth and less emotional.

Humans tend to throw logic and rational thought to the wayside when emotions are involved.   

In a decentralized coin if the community chooses to fork a coin for any reason it is up the consensus of the coins node/wallet operators to determine the correct fork to move forward.   

[Crestington]

If they dislike the leadership so much, the community could just fork it on their own and get everyone to upgrade to their version..

That's what I said and everyone gets morally objective

Btw, congrats on going to moonbase, did you get to get to try out the stimulator? they got anti-gravity there? It looked HUGE is your pictures

I believe if this is discussed in the context TheMage is referencing via non-paycoin the discussion could be much more in depth and less emotional.

Humans tend to throw logic and rational thought to the wayside when emotions are involved.  

In a decentralized coin if the community chooses to fork a coin for any reason it is up the consensus of the coins node/wallet operators to determine the correct fork to move forward.  

In many ways it is likely that it wouldn't be done since the community around PayCoin has more desire to pass blame than to come up with solutions. I don't think it could ever be viable, atleast not without removing the current leadership since it relies on trust and you cannot trust someone or some group who goes out of their way to scam everyone. I could see if it was something that just didn't work out because of market conditions or even lack of experience (as lots of things may seem great but aren't viable), but the mining and the Coin was made to benefit just a few and to pocket as much money as possible.

Making a fork and changing stuff is easy, if you have trust of the community holding it, then there is nothing you can't change. I'll take PayCon here as an example, muddafudda asked for someone to take it over but was experiencing a problem with syncing (due to difficulty). I didn't ask or wait for approval of anyone, I put in the fork with a 5 day delay to change the minimum difficulty, increased the rewards, cut off old clients and fixed a couple small issues and added new icons and images, I notified all the exchanges and sent everyone a personal message, more than 70% of all Coins and all services were upgraded in under 24 hours.

Why make any qualms about putting in a change? People want someone to takeover their Coin, make the decisions for them and develop it, if you just assume leadership and make the changes that are positive for everyone then people would happily go along with it. It doesn't even have to be exact, would it make any difference if PayCons Block reward was 40 Coins instead of 30 Coins? not really since you don't have the Hyper-Inflation of compounding interest, at a flat rate of growth then it would even leave room for an increase later on if wanted. The important part is really putting the seed in place that there is the expectation of change, the fluidity of changing things for the benefit of everyone. In relation, it is actually higher inflation than PayCoin but 350-1000% reward over a year is beneficial if everyone gets the same Stake rate because everyone gets boatloads of Coins and would be more likely to just give them away.

[TheMage]

I started writing this today and got about 4 pages completed with a whole other page of not so random random thoughts. This is going to be fairly extensive and will probably end up being somewhere in the realm of 15-25 pages long.

[Crestington]

I started writing this today and got about 4 pages completed with a whole other page of not so random random thoughts. This is going to be fairly extensive and will probably end up being somewhere in the realm of 15-25 pages long.

You should try to slim that down, very few people want to read a 25 page document.

[TheMage]

I started writing this today and got about 4 pages completed with a whole other page of not so random random thoughts. This is going to be fairly extensive and will probably end up being somewhere in the realm of 15-25 pages long.

You should try to slim that down, very few people want to read a 25 page document.

Important topics like this can not be slimmed down  .

[Crestington]

I started writing this today and got about 4 pages completed with a whole other page of not so random random thoughts. This is going to be fairly extensive and will probably end up being somewhere in the realm of 15-25 pages long.

You should try to slim that down, very few people want to read a 25 page document.

Important topics like this can not be slimmed down  .

So is it like a page report on forking and it's impacts?

[TheMage]

I started writing this today and got about 4 pages completed with a whole other page of not so random random thoughts. This is going to be fairly extensive and will probably end up being somewhere in the realm of 15-25 pages long.

You should try to slim that down, very few people want to read a 25 page document.

Important topics like this can not be slimmed down  .

So is it like a page report on forking and it's impacts?

Its an educational piece describing the pros and cons in forking a coin for A blacklisting and B blockchain roll backs. It is also being written in an unbiased manner as possible.

[Crestington]

I started writing this today and got about 4 pages completed with a whole other page of not so random random thoughts. This is going to be fairly extensive and will probably end up being somewhere in the realm of 15-25 pages long.

You should try to slim that down, very few people want to read a 25 page document.

Important topics like this can not be slimmed down  .

So is it like a page report on forking and it's impacts?

Its an educational piece describing the pros and cons in forking a coin for A blacklisting and B blockchain roll backs. It is also being written in an unbiased manner as possible.

Wouldn't that just be a matter of opinion on best effort basis?

[TheMage]

I started writing this today and got about 4 pages completed with a whole other page of not so random random thoughts. This is going to be fairly extensive and will probably end up being somewhere in the realm of 15-25 pages long.

You should try to slim that down, very few people want to read a 25 page document.

Important topics like this can not be slimmed down  .

So is it like a page report on forking and it's impacts?

Its an educational piece describing the pros and cons in forking a coin for A blacklisting and B blockchain roll backs. It is also being written in an unbiased manner as possible.

Wouldn't that just be a matter of opinion on best effort basis?

Its not written in standard forum conjecture, trust me a lot of work is being put into it . So to answer you, no it is not.

[Crestington]

I started writing this today and got about 4 pages completed with a whole other page of not so random random thoughts. This is going to be fairly extensive and will probably end up being somewhere in the realm of 15-25 pages long.

You should try to slim that down, very few people want to read a 25 page document.

Important topics like this can not be slimmed down  .

So is it like a page report on forking and it's impacts?

Its an educational piece describing the pros and cons in forking a coin for A blacklisting and B blockchain roll backs. It is also being written in an unbiased manner as possible.

Wouldn't that just be a matter of opinion on best effort basis?

Its not written in standard forum conjecture, trust me a lot of work is being put into it . So to answer you, no it is not.

Fantastic, I look forward to seeing it when you are done.

[TheMage]

I started writing this today and got about 4 pages completed with a whole other page of not so random random thoughts. This is going to be fairly extensive and will probably end up being somewhere in the realm of 15-25 pages long.

You should try to slim that down, very few people want to read a 25 page document.

Important topics like this can not be slimmed down  .

So is it like a page report on forking and it's impacts?

Its an educational piece describing the pros and cons in forking a coin for A blacklisting and B blockchain roll backs. It is also being written in an unbiased manner as possible.

Wouldn't that just be a matter of opinion on best effort basis?

Its not written in standard forum conjecture, trust me a lot of work is being put into it . So to answer you, no it is not.

Fantastic, I look forward to seeing it when you are done.

Thanks! I am enjoying writing it so far. I have reached out to some other coin devs for input because it directly relates to them.

[Este Nuno]

Outside of paycoin completely, this is a topic worthy of extensive writing. As time permits, I think I will write a paper on it (although it may take a bit of time). This is a great philosophical discussion that I think should be addressed now rather then later because of the nature of cryptos. And it should be a discussion where many of the leaders of the crypto community should interject and give opinions on all sides. This should be a major topic of discussion for all communities, because it could influence future laws on how cryptos should be regulated (ignoring the fact that there will be people here stating that cryptos shouldnt be regulated, but we all know it will happen, starting with BitLicence).


As a matter of fact, this should be moved to the general section instead of the alts section (even though it was derived from the Paycoin discussions).

It's always interested me how little discussion this topic has received over the years. So many people completely dismiss it, but in many cases it could be the rational decision for the majority to support such measures. I think some people think that it means immediate death of the currency and or loss of confidence if such actions were to be taken.

[TheMage]

Outside of paycoin completely, this is a topic worthy of extensive writing. As time permits, I think I will write a paper on it (although it may take a bit of time). This is a great philosophical discussion that I think should be addressed now rather then later because of the nature of cryptos. And it should be a discussion where many of the leaders of the crypto community should interject and give opinions on all sides. This should be a major topic of discussion for all communities, because it could influence future laws on how cryptos should be regulated (ignoring the fact that there will be people here stating that cryptos shouldnt be regulated, but we all know it will happen, starting with BitLicence).


As a matter of fact, this should be moved to the general section instead of the alts section (even though it was derived from the Paycoin discussions).

It's always interested me how little discussion this topic has received over the years. So many people completely dismiss it, but in many cases it could be the rational decision for the majority to support such measures. I think some people think that it means immediate death of the currency and or loss of confidence if such actions were to be taken.

Well I think this topic is taboo along with a few others, hence why people dont talk about it that much.

[Crestington]

Outside of paycoin completely, this is a topic worthy of extensive writing. As time permits, I think I will write a paper on it (although it may take a bit of time). This is a great philosophical discussion that I think should be addressed now rather then later because of the nature of cryptos. And it should be a discussion where many of the leaders of the crypto community should interject and give opinions on all sides. This should be a major topic of discussion for all communities, because it could influence future laws on how cryptos should be regulated (ignoring the fact that there will be people here stating that cryptos shouldnt be regulated, but we all know it will happen, starting with BitLicence).


As a matter of fact, this should be moved to the general section instead of the alts section (even though it was derived from the Paycoin discussions).

It's always interested me how little discussion this topic has received over the years. So many people completely dismiss it, but in many cases it could be the rational decision for the majority to support such measures. I think some people think that it means immediate death of the currency and or loss of confidence if such actions were to be taken.

Well I think this topic is taboo along with a few others, hence why people dont talk about it that much.

I don't see why there shouldn't be in depth research into this, probably come up with some good safeguards or stop possible exploits.

[TheMage]

Paper's done, sent it over to the Digital Currency Council for final edits and publishing. Ends up being 9 pages no spaces. 


As a side note I stuck with just forking a chain and ignored the blacklisting addresses part. At that point it got to be too much to write about. Maybe in the future I can write an addendum to it. Some interesting things that I discovered during research, there was one coin that was 51% attacked as a PoS coin (called "coin2"). I think this is the only real world example of a PoS 51% attack.

Anyways, I would hope that it gets released in a week or two. And im very eager to hear feedback on it!

[Crestington]

Paper's done, sent it over to the Digital Currency Council for final edits and publishing. Ends up being 9 pages no spaces. 


As a side note I stuck with just forking a chain and ignored the blacklisting addresses part. At that point it got to be too much to write about. Maybe in the future I can write an addendum to it. Some interesting things that I discovered during research, there was one coin that was 51% attacked as a PoS coin (called "coin2"). I think this is the only real world example of a PoS 51% attack.

Anyways, I would hope that it gets released in a week or two. And im very eager to hear feedback on it!

ApexCoin was POS attacked as a demonstration, I think for the most part POS is safer against 51% attacks but it's all in how the Staking works.