Ron Paul: ‘NATO’s an Entangling Alliance We’d Be Better Off Without’

[Chef Ramsay]

Speaking Monday on the Alan Colmes Show, Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity Chairman Ron Paul discussed the danger the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) poses to peace.

Paul explains his reasoning for shutting down NATO in response to a query from Colmes:
Colmes: You also believe NATO should be shut down at this point, correct?

Paul: Yeah, NATO for me is one of those entangling alliances that our Founders suggested we not get involved in. And, you know, Robert Taft was from the Old Right, which was more libertarian. Under the circumstances following World War II, he advised us not to get into NATO because it would invite more problems. And I think NATO is part of the reason we go into Libya, into Syria, now in Ukraine. And that’s all under NATO, It’s really not checking in with the American people whether it’s a good idea or not. I think that NATO’s an entangling alliance that we would be better off without.

Listen below to the complete 12 minute interview, in which Paul also addresses matters including neoconservatives’ efforts to block an Iran nuclear agreement, US involvement in the Ukraine coup and ongoing conflict, naval buildup near Yemen, opening up of trade between Cuba and America, and serious economic problems in America:

Video at link.

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/peace-and-prosperity/2015/april/21/ron-paul-nato-s-an-entangling-alliance-we-d-be-better-off-without/

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[bryant.coleman]

NATO is a military alliance which was created in order to counter the Warsaw Pact. The cold war is over and Warsaw Pact is defunct. Now it is time to dissolve NATO, for the sake of world peace.

[Nemo1024]

Here Ron Paul is actually putting the cart before the horse, when he says "And I think NATO is part of the reason we go into Libya, into Syria, now in Ukraine." But he is right in saying that "It’s really not checking in with the American people whether it’s a good idea or not".

Remember how Startfor's director Friedman referenced to NATO as a hampering organisation that US would be better without, when deciding where to get involved.

George Friedman, "Europe: Destined for Conflict?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeLu_yyz3tc

[BitMos]

no more usa, the only way is that there is no more American, you stayed, you are guilty.

[Pentax]

The US does way more for NATO and the UN than they do for it.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't every single time, so I'd say fuck it to both.

If we want to get involved in a given situation because it impacts our interests or we can see the overwhelming need to stave off some crazy domino like disaster, then fine, otherwise what good does it do the US to have mini powers lined up for what is basically moral support?  As events in the Middle East have shown, there is absolutely zero benefit for us, while we get to play world cop at the expense of a shitload of money, while these other countries get to diddle on the sidelines waiting for daddy to come along and clean up their backyard and then turn and bitch after the fact.

I've seen enough of this shit.  Screw NATO.  Screw the UN.

You want our help?  Ask for it.  Pay for it.  And STFU at the hell the US Army, Marines et al unleash at your request because the rest of the world is seemingly unable to handle the heavy lifting without our help the majority of the time.  It ain't a fuckin' bake sale they're bringing to town so know what you're getting when you pick up that phone.

[jaysabi]

The US does way more for NATO and the UN than they do for it.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't every single time, so I'd say fuck it to both.

If we want to get involved in a given situation because it impacts our interests or we can see the overwhelming need to stave off some crazy domino like disaster, then fine, otherwise what good does it do the US to have mini powers lined up for what is basically moral support?  As events in the Middle East have shown, there is absolutely zero benefit for us, while we get to play world cop at the expense of a shitload of money, while these other countries get to diddle on the sidelines waiting for daddy to come along and clean up their backyard and then turn and bitch after the fact.

I've seen enough of this shit.  Screw NATO.  Screw the UN.

You want our help?  Ask for it.  Pay for it.  And STFU at the hell the US Army, Marines et al unleash at your request because the rest of the world is seemingly unable to handle the heavy lifting without our help the majority of the time.  It ain't a fuckin' bake sale they're bringing to town so know what you're getting when you pick up that phone.

The American military is not a mercenary force and it should not be an interventionist force. Other nations should not be able to request it to do the 'heavy lifting' if only they pay for it. I disagree with this attitude.

[BitMos]

The US does way more for NATO and the UN than they do for it.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't every single time, so I'd say fuck it to both.

If we want to get involved in a given situation because it impacts our interests or we can see the overwhelming need to stave off some crazy domino like disaster, then fine, otherwise what good does it do the US to have mini powers lined up for what is basically moral support?  As events in the Middle East have shown, there is absolutely zero benefit for us, while we get to play world cop at the expense of a shitload of money, while these other countries get to diddle on the sidelines waiting for daddy to come along and clean up their backyard and then turn and bitch after the fact.

I've seen enough of this shit.  Screw NATO.  Screw the UN.

You want our help?  Ask for it.  Pay for it.  And STFU at the hell the US Army, Marines et al unleash at your request because the rest of the world is seemingly unable to handle the heavy lifting without our help the majority of the time.  It ain't a fuckin' bake sale they're bringing to town so know what you're getting when you pick up that phone.

I agree, the us protect rapist like Epstein.

Screw the usa, burn it, and finish it's people forevermore. it's because that throught fiat you can siphon the economy of the rest of the world, and those that oppose kill them, to spread gmos, torture, rape, spying, dishonesty, fake trading, fake food, fake boobs, and fake pussies... mirror and smoke.

so you will stfu and be like all your compatriots grinded, like all the fascist Nazi racist before you...

[Pentax]

The US does way more for NATO and the UN than they do for it.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't every single time, so I'd say fuck it to both.

If we want to get involved in a given situation because it impacts our interests or we can see the overwhelming need to stave off some crazy domino like disaster, then fine, otherwise what good does it do the US to have mini powers lined up for what is basically moral support?  As events in the Middle East have shown, there is absolutely zero benefit for us, while we get to play world cop at the expense of a shitload of money, while these other countries get to diddle on the sidelines waiting for daddy to come along and clean up their backyard and then turn and bitch after the fact.

I've seen enough of this shit.  Screw NATO.  Screw the UN.

You want our help?  Ask for it.  Pay for it.  And STFU at the hell the US Army, Marines et al unleash at your request because the rest of the world is seemingly unable to handle the heavy lifting without our help the majority of the time.  It ain't a fuckin' bake sale they're bringing to town so know what you're getting when you pick up that phone.

The American military is not a mercenary force and it should not be an interventionist force. Other nations should not be able to request it to do the 'heavy lifting' if only they pay for it. I disagree with this attitude.

I'd agree in principle, as I want nothing to do with it either.   I think it's a waste of American money and lives to clean up other people's messes.  And we have our own problems right here to deal with.

The rest of the world has not to this point shown the stomach or the ability to solve it's own problems in, at a minimum, a large number of high profile instances.  Trust me, I'd love it if it would.

And therein lies the problem.  One group says 'the American military should not be an interventionist force', while another says "why aren't the Americans doing anything?"

it's a no-win proposition.

[BitMos]

The US does way more for NATO and the UN than they do for it.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't every single time, so I'd say fuck it to both.

If we want to get involved in a given situation because it impacts our interests or we can see the overwhelming need to stave off some crazy domino like disaster, then fine, otherwise what good does it do the US to have mini powers lined up for what is basically moral support?  As events in the Middle East have shown, there is absolutely zero benefit for us, while we get to play world cop at the expense of a shitload of money, while these other countries get to diddle on the sidelines waiting for daddy to come along and clean up their backyard and then turn and bitch after the fact.

I've seen enough of this shit.  Screw NATO.  Screw the UN.

You want our help?  Ask for it.  Pay for it.  And STFU at the hell the US Army, Marines et al unleash at your request because the rest of the world is seemingly unable to handle the heavy lifting without our help the majority of the time.  It ain't a fuckin' bake sale they're bringing to town so know what you're getting when you pick up that phone.

The American military is not a mercenary force and it should not be an interventionist force. Other nations should not be able to request it to do the 'heavy lifting' if only they pay for it. I disagree with this attitude.

I'd agree in principle, as I want nothing to do with it either.   I think it's a waste of American money and lives to clean up other people's messes.  And we have our own problems right here to deal with.

The rest of the world has not to this point shown the stomach or the ability to solve it's own problems in, at a minimum, a large number of high profile instances.  Trust me, I'd love it if it would.

And therein lies the problem.  One group says 'the American military should not be an interventionist force', while another says "why aren't the Americans doing anything?"

it's a no-win proposition.

what is fun is that subhuman like Dempsey, brennan, odierno and co all know about Epstein, and tolerate it. it's call a Deed.

[Pentax]

The US does way more for NATO and the UN than they do for it.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't every single time, so I'd say fuck it to both.

If we want to get involved in a given situation because it impacts our interests or we can see the overwhelming need to stave off some crazy domino like disaster, then fine, otherwise what good does it do the US to have mini powers lined up for what is basically moral support?  As events in the Middle East have shown, there is absolutely zero benefit for us, while we get to play world cop at the expense of a shitload of money, while these other countries get to diddle on the sidelines waiting for daddy to come along and clean up their backyard and then turn and bitch after the fact.

I've seen enough of this shit.  Screw NATO.  Screw the UN.

You want our help?  Ask for it.  Pay for it.  And STFU at the hell the US Army, Marines et al unleash at your request because the rest of the world is seemingly unable to handle the heavy lifting without our help the majority of the time.  It ain't a fuckin' bake sale they're bringing to town so know what you're getting when you pick up that phone.

I agree, the us protect rapist like Epstein.

Screw the usa, burn it, and finish it's people forevermore. it's because that throught fiat you can siphon the economy of the rest of the world, and those that oppose kill them, to spread gmos, torture, rape, spying, dishonesty, fake trading, fake food, fake boobs, and fake pussies... mirror and smoke.

so you will stfu and be like all your compatriots grinded, like all the fascist Nazi racist before you...

yeah, and who grinded the Nazis.  Maybe if someone over there could've handled their shit then we could've sat that mess out too.

[Nemo1024]

The US does way more for NATO and the UN than they do for it.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't every single time, so I'd say fuck it to both.

If we want to get involved in a given situation because it impacts our interests or we can see the overwhelming need to stave off some crazy domino like disaster, then fine, otherwise what good does it do the US to have mini powers lined up for what is basically moral support?  As events in the Middle East have shown, there is absolutely zero benefit for us, while we get to play world cop at the expense of a shitload of money, while these other countries get to diddle on the sidelines waiting for daddy to come along and clean up their backyard and then turn and bitch after the fact.

I've seen enough of this shit.  Screw NATO.  Screw the UN.

You want our help?  Ask for it.  Pay for it.  And STFU at the hell the US Army, Marines et al unleash at your request because the rest of the world is seemingly unable to handle the heavy lifting without our help the majority of the time.  It ain't a fuckin' bake sale they're bringing to town so know what you're getting when you pick up that phone.

I agree, the us protect rapist like Epstein.

Screw the usa, burn it, and finish it's people forevermore. it's because that throught fiat you can siphon the economy of the rest of the world, and those that oppose kill them, to spread gmos, torture, rape, spying, dishonesty, fake trading, fake food, fake boobs, and fake pussies... mirror and smoke.

so you will stfu and be like all your compatriots grinded, like all the fascist Nazi racist before you...

yeah, and who grinded the Nazis.  Maybe if someone over there could've handled their shit then we could've sat that mess out too.

Soviet Union.

[Pentax]

The US does way more for NATO and the UN than they do for it.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't every single time, so I'd say fuck it to both.

If we want to get involved in a given situation because it impacts our interests or we can see the overwhelming need to stave off some crazy domino like disaster, then fine, otherwise what good does it do the US to have mini powers lined up for what is basically moral support?  As events in the Middle East have shown, there is absolutely zero benefit for us, while we get to play world cop at the expense of a shitload of money, while these other countries get to diddle on the sidelines waiting for daddy to come along and clean up their backyard and then turn and bitch after the fact.

I've seen enough of this shit.  Screw NATO.  Screw the UN.

You want our help?  Ask for it.  Pay for it.  And STFU at the hell the US Army, Marines et al unleash at your request because the rest of the world is seemingly unable to handle the heavy lifting without our help the majority of the time.  It ain't a fuckin' bake sale they're bringing to town so know what you're getting when you pick up that phone.

I agree, the us protect rapist like Epstein.

Screw the usa, burn it, and finish it's people forevermore. it's because that throught fiat you can siphon the economy of the rest of the world, and those that oppose kill them, to spread gmos, torture, rape, spying, dishonesty, fake trading, fake food, fake boobs, and fake pussies... mirror and smoke.

so you will stfu and be like all your compatriots grinded, like all the fascist Nazi racist before you...

yeah, and who grinded the Nazis.  Maybe if someone over there could've handled their shit then we could've sat that mess out too.

Soviet Union.

More like the stopped their advance into the Soviet Union. 

The Soviet Union did not liberate Europe.

[Lethn]

Soviet Union.

That's an inconvenient truth many Americans like to forget, the Russians held the line against the Nazis for a long time taking millions of casualties in the process.

The Soviet Union did not liberate Europe.

If the Russians hadn't gotten involved the Nazis would have been able to conquer all of Western Europe entirely and then turned their attention to America, you should re-learn your history.

[Pentax]

Soviet Union.

That's an inconvenient truth many Americans like to forget, the Russians held the line against the Nazis for a long time taking millions of casualties in the process.

I don't deny that fact.  Probably the single most stupid thing Hitler did was turn east and attack the Soviet Union.

[Pentax]

Soviet Union.

That's an inconvenient truth many Americans like to forget, the Russians held the line against the Nazis for a long time taking millions of casualties in the process.

The Soviet Union did not liberate Europe.

If the Russians hadn't gotten involved the Nazis would have been able to conquer all of Western Europe entirely and then turned their attention to America, you should re-learn your history.

oh give me a break.  i should relearn my history.

you should retire your crystal ball of prognosticating on what would have happened had not this or that happened.

what did happen, did happen.

[Lethn]

Cuz fuck yeah 'murica! Dem fuckin' commies!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

But seriously, casually dimissing the Russian involvement in World War 2 is a fucking joke, especially considering the millions of Russians that died fighting off the Nazis.

[Pentax]

Cuz fuck yeah 'murica! Dem fuckin' commies!

sure, that's exactly what I said with respect to 'dem fuckin' commies'.  except it isn't.

Please, oh Oracle, tell us again how the Germans, who couldn't take England just to the other side of the English Channel, were going to 'turn their attention to America', cross the Atlantic, take out the US Navy along the way, land enough ground troops to take the mainland (while again it could not do the same to the British) and make us all speak German.

your analysis of events is seriously flawed.  maybe it is you who should crack out that history book.

this does not in any way demean the efforts of the Soviet Union to stop them.  which I pointed out with my very first response, although I'm truly curious as to how 'dem Krauts' was gonna come git us.

lol.

[Pentax]

Cuz fuck yeah 'murica! Dem fuckin' commies!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

But seriously, casually dimissing the Russian involvement in World War 2 is a fucking joke, especially considering the millions of Russians that died fighting off the Nazis.

I know, but I did not do any such thing.

[Lethn]

Then don't make it out that the Russians were meaningless in the war just beacause it disagrees with your sense of American superiority.

  yeah, and who grinded the Nazis.  Maybe if someone over there could've handled their shit then we could've sat that mess out too.

I hope I don't have to bring up how in your civil war that founded the United States the French played a big role in it and even gave you the statue of liberty, but of course, you guys all went in going "Fuck yeah 'murica!" and shot at everybody with muskets according to your logic.

[BitMos]

no, Soviets.

[Nemo1024]

The guy should definitely learn history, or at least stop spreading disinformation.
USA joined the fray only once it became apparent that Soviet Union was winning. All previous pleas for help were ignored by Roosevelt and Churchill for years before that.

Some materials that he can get, is from Oliver Stone's "The Untold History of the United States".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsYOrrgTDyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc_eaoOlnDg&list=PL7Eup7JXScZw9lBPjB6ind_x11uAnI52G

And about "couldn't take England":

“The fact is that the situation was critical in the extreme. …The majority of the squadrons had been reduced to the status of training units, and were fit only for operations against unescorted bombers. … Replacement pilots, with little flight training and often no gunnery training, suffered high casualty rates thus exacerbating the problem.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain#cite_ref-88) – (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/battle-of-britain-in-the-words-of-air-chief-marshal-hugh-dowding.html/2)
“By the beginning of September the incidence of casualties became so serious that a fresh squadron would become depleted and exhausted before any of the resting and reforming squadrons was ready to take its place. Fighter pilots were no longer being produced in numbers sufficient to fill the gaps in the fighting ranks.” (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/battle-of-britain-in-the-words-of-air-chief-marshal-hugh-dowding.html/7)
The arrival of foreign squadrons (1 Canadian, 2 Polish and 1 Czech) helped a little, but what really saved Britain was that the Germans were discouraged by their unexpected losses, which led them to think they had underestimated the Brits – or overestimated their own strength. Seeing he could not “immediately establish his “air superiority” on this front, Hitler decided to “postpone” “Operation Sea Lion” and instead, redeploy all his forces to the eastern front, where where he was being “mauled and broken and slaughtered and manhandled by the strength of the Russian Soviet Armies.”
In the words of Dowding: “Serious as were our difficulties, …those of the enemy were worse, and by the end of October the Germans abandoned their attempts to wear down the Fighter Command, and the country was delivered from the threat of immediate invasion.” (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/battle-of-britain-in-the-words-of-air-chief-marshal-hugh-dowding.html/2)

One thing that I agree with Pentax, is that USA should stop systematic interventionism. In 99% of cases it was not wanted and carried characteristics of a fire-fighter that first played an arsonist role so as to keep himself in the job. Even with WWII, let's say that grandpa Bush made a fortune there, in the financing of the Third Reich.

[BitMos]

The guy should definitely learn history, or at least stop spreading disinformation.
USA joined the fray only once it became apparent that Soviet Union was winning. All previous pleas for help were ignored by Roosevelt and Churchill for years before that.

Some materials that he can get, is from Oliver Stone's "The Untold History of the United States".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsYOrrgTDyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc_eaoOlnDg&list=PL7Eup7JXScZw9lBPjB6ind_x11uAnI52G

And about "couldn't take England":

“The fact is that the situation was critical in the extreme. …The majority of the squadrons had been reduced to the status of training units, and were fit only for operations against unescorted bombers. … Replacement pilots, with little flight training and often no gunnery training, suffered high casualty rates thus exacerbating the problem.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain#cite_ref-88) – (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/battle-of-britain-in-the-words-of-air-chief-marshal-hugh-dowding.html/2)
“By the beginning of September the incidence of casualties became so serious that a fresh squadron would become depleted and exhausted before any of the resting and reforming squadrons was ready to take its place. Fighter pilots were no longer being produced in numbers sufficient to fill the gaps in the fighting ranks.” (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/battle-of-britain-in-the-words-of-air-chief-marshal-hugh-dowding.html/7)
The arrival of foreign squadrons (1 Canadian, 2 Polish and 1 Czech) helped a little, but what really saved Britain was that the Germans were discouraged by their unexpected losses, which led them to think they had underestimated the Brits – or overestimated their own strength. Seeing he could not “immediately establish his “air superiority” on this front, Hitler decided to “postpone” “Operation Sea Lion” and instead, redeploy all his forces to the eastern front, where where he was being “mauled and broken and slaughtered and manhandled by the strength of the Russian Soviet Armies.”
In the words of Dowding: “Serious as were our difficulties, …those of the enemy were worse, and by the end of October the Germans abandoned their attempts to wear down the Fighter Command, and the country was delivered from the threat of immediate invasion.” (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/battle-of-britain-in-the-words-of-air-chief-marshal-hugh-dowding.html/2)

One thing that I agree with Pentax, is that USA should stop systematic interventionism. In 99% of cases it was not wanted and carried characteristics of a fire-fighter that first played an arsonist role so as to keep himself in the job. Even with WWII, let's say that grandpa Bush made a fortune there, in the financing of the Third Reich.

just read the first line, they can't, the American aristocracy did everything necessary to dumb them down so much that chimps learn faster. so forget, it's naïve, like yeltsin... when a monkey want to rape your daughter what do you? me, I kill all this specie of monkey, innocent, young, old, far, all of them. and the risk is gone. zeroed.

edit: one reason they waited (apart from scaling the war debt) was to get the maximum Soviets killed... a better world, without them skimming the cream... ahahaha... Don't worry it's a very kind intention from your part Nemo. it's a forum it's perfect. on the bf : nm4sh (subhuman).

[Pentax]

Then don't make it out that the Russians were meaningless in the war just beacause it disagrees with your sense of American superiority.

  yeah, and who grinded the Nazis.  Maybe if someone over there could've handled their shit then we could've sat that mess out too.

I hope I don't have to bring up how in your civil war that founded the United States the French played a big role in it and even gave you the statue of liberty, but of course, you guys all went in going "Fuck yeah 'murica!" and shot at everybody with muskets according to your logic.

Again, I did not.  your continuing to say it is so does not make it fact. go back and read my earlier replies  if you have to.  

I did not state, or impart in any way, that they did not take their pound of flesh out of Hitler's ass.  In fact I stated clearly otherwise that this attack on the Soviet Union was, IMO, a massive mistake on Hitler's part- and not because I thought the Soviet Union donated free vodka in celebration of their showing up unannounced on their door-steppe (pun very much intended) and the Nazis ended up drunk and lost somewhere around Leningrad and hence couldn't finish it off for some 2 and a half years, cause the party was just that rockin good.

Obviously this stretched the Nazis too thin and cost both sides massive losses.  

That is not to say, however, that I am in any way convinced that the Nazis would have been in any way able to come here to kick our asses had not this happened.  Is it possible?  I guess so, it just does not seem in keeping the relative capabilities of the Germans vis a vis the Americans at that point in history.

And thanks to the French.  They've been repaid,  I think they'd agree.  It is a very nice statue.

[Pentax]

The guy should definitely learn history, or at least stop spreading disinformation.
USA joined the fray only once it became apparent that Soviet Union was winning. All previous pleas for help were ignored by Roosevelt and Churchill for years before that.

Some materials that he can get, is from Oliver Stone's "The Untold History of the United States".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsYOrrgTDyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc_eaoOlnDg&list=PL7Eup7JXScZw9lBPjB6ind_x11uAnI52G

And about "couldn't take England":

“The fact is that the situation was critical in the extreme. …The majority of the squadrons had been reduced to the status of training units, and were fit only for operations against unescorted bombers. … Replacement pilots, with little flight training and often no gunnery training, suffered high casualty rates thus exacerbating the problem.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain#cite_ref-88) – (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/battle-of-britain-in-the-words-of-air-chief-marshal-hugh-dowding.html/2)
“By the beginning of September the incidence of casualties became so serious that a fresh squadron would become depleted and exhausted before any of the resting and reforming squadrons was ready to take its place. Fighter pilots were no longer being produced in numbers sufficient to fill the gaps in the fighting ranks.” (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/battle-of-britain-in-the-words-of-air-chief-marshal-hugh-dowding.html/7)
The arrival of foreign squadrons (1 Canadian, 2 Polish and 1 Czech) helped a little, but what really saved Britain was that the Germans were discouraged by their unexpected losses, which led them to think they had underestimated the Brits – or overestimated their own strength. Seeing he could not “immediately establish his “air superiority” on this front, Hitler decided to “postpone” “Operation Sea Lion” and instead, redeploy all his forces to the eastern front, where where he was being “mauled and broken and slaughtered and manhandled by the strength of the Russian Soviet Armies.”
In the words of Dowding: “Serious as were our difficulties, …those of the enemy were worse, and by the end of October the Germans abandoned their attempts to wear down the Fighter Command, and the country was delivered from the threat of immediate invasion.” (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/battle-of-britain-in-the-words-of-air-chief-marshal-hugh-dowding.html/2)

One thing that I agree with Pentax, is that USA should stop systematic interventionism. In 99% of cases it was not wanted and carried characteristics of a fire-fighter that first played an arsonist role so as to keep himself in the job. Even with WWII, let's say that grandpa Bush made a fortune there, in the financing of the Third Reich.

yeah, either that or the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, leaving no choice.

And I should learn history.

good grief.

[jaysabi]

The guy should definitely learn history, or at least stop spreading disinformation.
USA joined the fray only once it became apparent that Soviet Union was winning. All previous pleas for help were ignored by Roosevelt and Churchill for years before that.

Japan attacks Pearl Harbor, US declares war on Japan, Germany declares war on US, US declares war on Germany. This sequence of events doesn't support your indication the US got involved only once it became apparent the USSR was winning. The US joined the European fray because Germany declared war on the US.