Is BTCTS (Pirate) considered to be in default?

[Come-from-Beyond]

I've posted it here to know the opinion of our community. Everyone is able to change the vote at any time as the situation progresses and more info becomes available. Do it, please, to keep the opinion up to date.

PS: For those who is uncertain what "default" means - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_(finance).

[Coincomm]

"In finance, default occurs when a debtor has not met his or her legal obligations according to the debt contract, e.g. has not made a scheduled payment, or has violated a loan covenant (condition) of the debt contract."

Without a doubt.

[DeathAndTaxes]

A more controversial question would be "Is the earth flat?".  Uneducated opinions to the contrary the earth is not flat.

Likewise, uneducated opinions to the contrary Pirate has defaulted.

[proudhon]

A more controversial question would be is the earth flat.  Uneducated opinions to the contrary the earth is not flat.

By any possible definition Pirate has defaulted.

Yeah, why does the default question keep coming up?  There's just no question that he's in default.  The question is whether he will pay anything at all back at this point.

[symbot]

Seems clear to me that he has defaulted and that's how I voted above.

[gilgil]

Before I cast my vote, when was his payment due? Did anyone get paid back yet?

[Gabi]

Before I cast my vote, when was his payment due? Did anyone get paid back yet?

I'm wondering the same thing.

[P4man]

Before I cast my vote, when was his payment due? Did anyone get paid back yet?

I'm wondering the same thing.

Whenever the lender requested their coins back:

You can withdraw your balance at anytime, but I do request that you give me a couple hours to insure I have coverage for the next order.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.msg605957#msg605957

[szuetam]

I'm wondering the same?

[layyen]

will be paid until week, not paid in week,

my vote, defaulted..

[BadBear]

Yes he is in default. He defaulted on Friday, August 17th when he closed down BS&T and denying withdrawals. He promised bitlane to pay by Monday the 20th. He never did, and if he wasn't already in default he would be at this point.

Doesn't mean he isn't paying back the loans, just means that he hasn't yet. It's an expensive wait though, interest so far on 500k btc is 65k, almost 3/4 of a million dollars. His time must be very valuable.

[mp420]

Doesn't mean he isn't paying back the loans, just means that he hasn't yet. It's an expensive wait though, interest so far on 500k btc is 65k, almost 3/4 of a million dollars. His time must be very valuable.

The funny thing is, if he wanted to appear legit, he could have just reduced the interest rate to zero (or to real-world interest rate levels) on the moment he closed shop. Letting the astronomical rates accrue isn't convincing anyone's logical side, at least.

The only reason to do that is to cater to the creditors' emotional side. Imagining their investment growing all the time might counter and soften the anger and frustration they're feeling because of the default.

[Dalkore]

Pirate is in default.  He could ask for redemption and work towards a settlement where his creditors would get something less that 100 cents on the dollar for their debt claim.  I do hope he does write that book he mentioned.   So many unanswered questions.


Dalkore

[420]

this isn't decided yet

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=433

[DeathAndTaxes]

this isn't decided yet

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=433

Only because it is defined so foolishly vague.

Editor's note: "Default" is defined as keeping people's bitcoins for a period of time and not applying pre-advertised rates of interest or not letting withdrawals. Change of interest rates for future periods is not a default as long as they let people to withdraw funds before the new period.

Ok keep people's bitcoins for a  period of time.  CHECK. Well 1 nanosecond is a period of time, so in 20 trillion years.  So sometimes between 1 nanosecond and the end of time the bet can be decided depending on how much time the editor considers a "a period of time".

[Gabi]

Didn't he say 1-2 weeks?

[SMTB1963]

A more controversial question would be "Is the earth flat?".  Uneducated opinions to the contrary the earth is not flat.

Likewise, uneducated opinions to the contrary Pirate has defaulted.

I LOL'd

No vote tho, b/c I haven't read the "contract".  Late to the party, so can someone point me to it [the contract]?

[herzmeister]

I think there is a law that concedes a payment delay of 14 days, at least here in Germany.

But Bitcoin is of course a) lawless and b) child of the hyperspeed information age. 

[Littleshop]

Before I cast my vote, when was his payment due?

He was supposed to give withdraw for some people on August 17. On August 18, according to his own terms, he defaulted.

He then explained he's closing shop, and starting the pay back process on August 20, stating that it would take him 1 week.

Did anyone get paid back yet?

Yes, some accounts were paid back on August 22 and August 23.

The amount paid back is nothing more then a rounding error. 

[DeathAndTaxes]

Didn't he say 1-2 weeks?

If when the closed down, after the fact promised to repay people in 10-20 years would that also prevent a default until 7,301 days have passed?

The contract specified funds could be withdrawn (in full and with all accrued interest) on demand.  People demanded funds and they were not provided, as soon as that happened (11 days ago) he was in default .  Had he specified in the contract that "upon demand funds will be delivered within 14 days" he wouldn't be in default for at least three more days.  Of course had he done that less people might have "invested" gambled.

He defined the terms of his own investment, terms he wasn't able to honor.