Contribute To Bitcoin Economy...

[TerminatorXL]

...Buy a bitcointalk account!
Or sell one. Judging by the "Auctions" & "Digital Goods" subs, it's the hottest thing for 2015.
And most of the credit, I must add, rightfully belongs to the forum staff. Thanks, guys, for making this place what it is today. Satoshi would be proud.

http://s10.postimg.org/relg2xyhl/Capture.png

Another thread whining about forum policies, rly? You bet. Salty locked my last one, bitch to him.

[redsn0w]

...Buy a bitcointalk account!
Or sell one. Judging by the "Auctions" & "Digital Goods" subs, it's the hottest thing for 2015.
And most of the credit, I must add, rightfully belongs to the forum staff. Thanks, guys, for making this place what it is today. Satoshi would be proud.



Another thread whining about forum policies, rly? You bet. Salty locked my last one, bitch to him.

Oh my God, another thread ... amazing! Now, what is the purpose of this (new) thread? I think SaltySpitoon had some valid reason when he locked your previous thread.

[erikalui]

Bitcointalk is the only forum which I have seen that allows one to create alt accounts and even sell them (though it's discouraged). How does this forum benefit by letting this happen as it would be one person who will be creating and replying to the same topics most of the time and earn activity. I have seen people who create topics and answer their query themself and it's like they are suffering from split personality. I won't be surprised if the 493071 members may turn out to be just 100-150 members in total and most will be spamming the forum without wearing a Signature. These members don't even bother to get their positive trust removed before selling their account as it earns them more BTC.  Easy to invite scammers to buy their trustworthy accounts.

[OgNasty]

Bitcointalk is the only forum which I have seen that allows one to create alt accounts and even sell them (though it's discouraged). How does this forum benefit by letting this happen as it would be one person who will be creating and replying to the same topics most of the time and earn activity. I have seen people who create topics and answer their query themself and it's like they are suffering from split personality. I won't be surprised if the 493071 members may turn out to be just 100-150 members in total and most will be spamming the forum without wearing a Signature. These members don't even bother to get their positive trust removed before selling their account as it earns them more BTC.  Easy to invite scammers to buy their trustworthy accounts.

Don't blame the forum.  Blame the people buying old accounts and paying spammers to participate in signature campaigns.  They're the ones funding this nonsense.

[thebitcoinquiz.com]

Do you have a solutions to this? Don't blame the staff when you yourself cannot advice the staff to how to stop this activity. And its not the staff who is responsible for it, its the signature campaigns who are responsible for it.

[TerminatorXL]

[...]
Oh my God, another thread http://techforum.it/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/asd.gif... amazing! Now, what is the purpose of this (new) thread? I think SaltySpitoon had some valid reason when he locked your previous thread.

Hello, friend! Happy to explain:

I've started this thread because, though the last one was deftly locked, the problem it tried to address didn't disappear right along with it.
Baffling, I know.
And yet it's true.

[...]
Don't blame the forum.  Blame the people buying old accounts and paying spammers to participate in signature campaigns.  They're the ones funding this nonsense.

The forum approves of this happening. Banning the sale of forum accounts right on this forum wouldn't be that hard, would it?

Do you have a solutions to this? [...]

You bet.
Prohibit buying and selling of bitcointalk accounts on bitcointalk. Let them work for it - push them to some Sheep TOR market - would cut into the profit margins a bit, no?

This wouldn't need to be constantly restated if threads weren't locked.
ty

[erikalui]

Don't blame the forum.  Blame the people buying old accounts and paying spammers to participate in signature campaigns.  They're the ones funding this nonsense.

Why shouldn't I blame the forum? The forum rules have flaws and I am a member here. If I have an issue, I can't speak about it? The forum is letting people to create more than one account and hence inviting spammers to spam and scammers to scam. When the latter happens, the only thing is said "Scams aren't moderated."

If the rule of creating more than one account and selling accounts is stopped, then that will be a positive change else everyone should just bear the flaws as of now.

[redsn0w]

Don't blame the forum.  Blame the people buying old accounts and paying spammers to participate in signature campaigns.  They're the ones funding this nonsense.

Why shouldn't I blame the forum? The forum rules have flaws and I am a member here. If I have an issue, I can't speak about it? The forum is letting people to create more than one account and hence inviting spammers to spam and scammers to scam. When the latter happens, the only thing is said "Scams aren't moderated."

If the rule of creating more than one account and selling accounts is stopped, then that will be a positive change else everyone should just bear the flaws as of now.

I think OgNasty expressed a valid point, also if the forum staff will put a rule don't you think a lot of users will 'bypass' it? This is the unique reason why buying & selling (or have more than one) forum account is not forbidden... because it is impossible to stop this practice.

[TerminatorXL]

[...]
I think OgNasty expressed a valid point, also if the forum staff will put a rule don't you think a lot of users will 'bypass' it?

Yeah, some would. Some rob houses even though there are laws against it. But not as many as would if there were no such laws.

Reality of this isn't binary - shit either happens or it does not. It's a gradient - shades of gray between "shit happens all the time & is pandemic" and "shit never happens." In this case, we want shit to happen less, and I know how to do that.

[erikalui]

I think OgNasty expressed a valid point, also if the forum staff will put a rule don't you think a lot of users will 'bypass' it? This is the unique reason why buying & selling (or have more than one) forum account is not forbidden... because it is impossible to stop this practice.

You can answer my one question? What benefit does the forum get from multiple accounts (especially those accounts created using one IP address)? Any good reason why is it allowed?

Also regarding members going against the rule. Laws are as well broken. That means there shouldn't be any law? Saying that as well does not make sense. Rules can atleast TRY to stop it.

[redsn0w]

[...]
I think OgNasty expressed a valid point, also if the forum staff will put a rule don't you think a lot of users will 'bypass' it?

Yeah, some would. Some rob houses even though there are laws against it. But not as many as would if there were no such laws.
 

Yes of course, but if there will be a rule here in the forum the 'forum staff' should work x2-x3 try (en)force them to all the forum users. I have read some mod. that it will be really annoying and stressful for them.

I think OgNasty expressed a valid point, also if the forum staff will put a rule don't you think a lot of users will 'bypass' it? This is the unique reason why buying & selling (or have more than one) forum account is not forbidden... because it is impossible to stop this practice.

You can answer my one question? What benefit does the forum get from multiple accounts (especially those accounts created using one IP address)? Any good reason why is it allowed?

Also regarding members going against the rule. Laws are as well broken. That means there shouldn't be any law? Saying that as well does not make sense. Rules can atleast TRY to stop it.

Then if you think you are in the right side, send a PM to theymos & open a thread here in the meta section (something of more articulated, not like TerminatorXL did with this thread).

[erikalui]

Then if you think you are in the right side, send a PM to theymos & open a thread here in the meta section (something of more articulated, not like TerminatorXL did with this thread).

I had opened a thread and got replies which went way off topic. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=977435.0

I thought that this Meta section is for discussing the forum rules rather than sending Theymos a PM which might not be entertained as I am not a reputed member here.

[TerminatorXL]

[...]
I think OgNasty expressed a valid point, also if the forum staff will put a rule don't you think a lot of users will 'bypass' it?

Yeah, some would. Some rob houses even though there are laws against it. But not as many as would if there were no such laws.
 

Yes of course, but if there will be a rule here in the forum the 'forum staff' should work x2-x3 try (en)force them to all the forum users. I have read some mod. that it will be really annoying and stressful for them.

1. Banning the sale of accounts is no different than banning the sale of crack, guns or CP in the same subs. Those are already verboten in those subs, and the mods aren't dropping from exhaustion.

2. The amount of spam and scam generated by bought accounts substantially increases the number of posts on this forum - people are PAID to post. Disallowing account sales would reduce that, and thus the workload for janitors.

3. The forum is not short on funds, as I'm sure you know. Hiring more janitors wouldn't even register on the books.

[...]more articulated, not like TerminatorXL did [...]

Doin' the best I can

[botany]

1. Banning the sale of accounts is no different than banning the sale of crack, guns or CP in the same subs. Those are already verboten in those subs, and the mods aren't dropping from exhaustion.

Selling of accounts would just move to places outside this forum. How would you want the mods to crack down in that case?

[TerminatorXL]

1. Banning the sale of accounts is no different than banning the sale of crack, guns or CP in the same subs. Those are already verboten in those subs, and the mods aren't dropping from exhaustion.

Selling of accounts would just move to places outside this forum. How would you want the mods to crack down in that case?

As I've mentioned above, I'd be happy if account dealing was done outside of the forum. This would make trading in bitcointalk accounts less frictionless, require more wits than simply making posts in the Digital Goods/Auctions subs, and thus less profitable.
Less profitable = less financial incentive. Take away financial incentive, and, as my rudimentary knowledge of economics suggests, will happen less.

Would also make it far less embarrassing to participate in this forum, because commentary like this just wouldn't happen:

http://s17.postimg.org/mph3uida7/Capture.png

Do I really need to explain why selling aged forum accounts is a bad thing, when new accounts are free to make?

Edit: You post:

...
You are a newbie with negative feedback.
Better try starting again in this forum with a new id.

Do you see how this "loan" would have had a much better chance of being secured, had the n00b bought himself a nice, reputable account with green trust?

[erikalui]

1. Banning the sale of accounts is no different than banning the sale of crack, guns or CP in the same subs. Those are already verboten in those subs, and the mods aren't dropping from exhaustion.

Selling of accounts would just move to places outside this forum. How would you want the mods to crack down in that case?

Why do you want it to happen on the forum? Any specific reason why should Account Selling be allowed here? To me there's just one reason that people Earn Bitcoins by doing so and hence they want it to happen. Nobody cares if people spam the forum by owning many accounts and scam members.

If people move outside the forum and find any other means, they will be banned as this would be against the rules. I don't see any benefit to the bitcoin community or the forum by letting this happen.

[hilariousandco]

The forum approves of this happening. Banning the sale of forum accounts right on this forum wouldn't be that hard, would it?

It wouldn't be hard to say the sale of forum accounts are now banned, but it wouldn't do anything. It would just push their sale off site.

Would also make it far less embarrassing to participate in this forum, because commentary like this just wouldn't happen:

I don't get the relevance. Some wannabe hack journalist gets banned for spamming and then invents a conspiracy? It doesn't matter what we do people will always whine and invent conspiracies to suit their agendas. It also always seems that other people know best on how to run this forum. I suggest those users band together and create their own one if they think they can run one better.

[SaltySpitoon]

 

[...]
And with this, I know that you don't care about the practice of account selling, this is an attempt at bashing Quickseller.
[...]

Lol, is this what you really think? That's what you've been doing here? Defending your skeezy boyfriend? Well, color me impressed!
Allrighty, gg.

At this comment and after, the topic was ended and everyone, myself included started going off topic.

Can you not look around at the world and see the harm that some laws do? Ok we ban account selling, it can't be enforced, and then it becomes more dangerous because people think it can't happen. Its really a simple concept that can be seen all around the world, although governments and police forces have more stopping power for any laws they inact.

You either aren't going to get it, or you do get it and you think it's funny to keep beating a dead horse. For the sake of maybe help I ng you understand, how would you propose we stop account selling? Keeping in mind that we have no way of checking account ownership, no way of breaking encrypted communications, and no way to enforce a penalty? Sure we could ban anyone stupid enough to post in open that they are selling accounts, but then they would make another and sell via a different method. Figure out an idea that isn't "just ban it, people will listen" because that's not how things work.

[TerminatorXL]

^^^^
>the harm that some laws do
Sure. Just like some foods can be rotten. Extrapolating from this that *all* food is rotten & thus we should stop eating is nonsense.
This forum has some, albeit vague, unformalized and selectively enforced, laws rules. Are you arguing that these should be tossed, because of the "harm that some laws do"?

>but then they would make another and sell via a different method.

[...]I'd be happy if account dealing was done outside of the forum. This would make trading in bitcointalk accounts less frictionless, require more wits than simply making posts in the Digital Goods/Auctions subs, and thus less profitable.
Less profitable = less financial incentive. Take away financial incentive, and, as my rudimentary knowledge of economics suggests, will happen less.
[...]

Let's not keep treading over the same ground. I've outlined what should be done:
 1. prohibit bitcointalk account sales in general
 2. enforce the policy in the market section, like you enforce "no drugs/guns/CP"
 3. if sufficient evidence exists* of account no longer being used by original owner, ban it.
 4. if sufficient evidence exists* of a user selling accounts, ban it.
 5. Tell n00bs that accounts may be bought and sold off-forum.
     Tell them that the simple fact that account sales are forbidden doesn't imply that it never happens.
     Tell them about the birds and the bees & the Easter Bunny, if you think so little of their intelligence.
     Tell them not to leave their money on the street and expect it to stay there, even though stealing is forbidden.
     Teach them about life, Salty!

I mean, you already educate them with "default trust," because they wouldn't know who to trust without it

* You can spot people avoiding bans, and (likely) don't require absolute proof. This shouldn't be any different.

[TerminatorXL]

The forum approves of this happening. Banning the sale of forum accounts right on this forum wouldn't be that hard, would it?

It wouldn't be hard to say the sale of forum accounts are now banned, but it wouldn't do anything. It would just push their sale off site.

Would also make it far less embarrassing to participate in this forum, because commentary like this just wouldn't happen:

http://s17.postimg.org/mph3uida7/Capture.png

I don't get the relevance. Some wannabe hack journalist gets banned for spamming and then invents a conspiracy? It doesn't matter what we do people will always whine and invent conspiracies to suit their agendas. It also always seems that other people know best on how to run this forum. I suggest those users band together and create their own one if they think they can run one better.

Hilarious, let's see what you've gone and wrote.

>Some wannabe hack journalist
Devoid of content (other than anger). Are you trying to say this person aspires to be a hack journalist, that he is a hack journalist, or that he merely aspires to be a journalist? What you got here, right off the bat, is whatchamacall an unsound formula. Unparsable.

>spamming
>invents a conspiracy
More loaded language. I understand that you're angry & feel attacked, but unless you're simply venting, try for more neutral language.

>more venting
More venting.

TL;DR: Please, when posting in my thread, try to address the topic & not use it as a soapbox to lash out at the h8ors from.
ty.