butterflylabs.com - any comment about your ASIC progress?

[ursa]

BFL has never used second hand or refurbished FPGAs.

Any comments on the original question? How are you getting on with ASIC development?

The old lady from QC is still soldering the transistors for the ASIC....give her a break...she's old....

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[HorseRider]

Also anyone buying shares from these mining companies are taking away the whole point of Bitcoin "Decentralized currency for the people by the people"

if asicminer is succeed, the bitcoiners around the whole world will get cheaper asic rigs. It's the best way to secure the bitcoin network rather than rely on BFL alone. I think that's what you mean "by the people".

[ice_chill]

Also anyone buying shares from these mining companies are taking away the whole point of Bitcoin "Decentralized currency for the people by the people"

if asicminer is succeed, the bitcoiners around the whole world will get cheaper asic rigs. It's the best way to secure the bitcoin network rather than rely on BFL alone. I think that's what you mean "by the people".

As I understand from what they wrote, their plan is to use your finances from buying shares to create ASIC, then mine on it themselves, once the difficulty goes up to a point that selling ASIC hardware is more profitable than mining on it, then they will start selling it.

[HorseRider]

As I understand from what they wrote, their plan is to use your finances from buying shares to create ASIC, then mine on it themselves

yes.

but bitcoin community will get cheap asic rigs at the end.

until now it's still risky investment, and I think this is very good timing to say that we are taking risks and a initial higher mining payback is fair as a compensation for the risk.

I think for the BFL customers, as they essentially are taking the risks for the BFL R&D (if BFL fails they will run, as ngzhang speculated), it's fair for the BFL customers to use the rigs first and BFL promise not to mine first. (is there any such promise?)

once the difficulty goes up to a point that selling ASIC hardware is more profitable than mining on it, then they will start selling it.

no.

ASICMINER will be selling the rigs before that, in my understanding.

[Jutarul]

Also anyone buying shares from these mining companies are taking away the whole point of Bitcoin "Decentralized currency for the people by the people"

if asicminer is succeed, the bitcoiners around the whole world will get cheaper asic rigs. It's the best way to secure the bitcoin network rather than rely on BFL alone. I think that's what you mean "by the people".

As I understand from what they wrote, their plan is to use your finances from buying shares to create ASIC, then mine on it themselves, once the difficulty goes up to a point that selling ASIC hardware is more profitable than mining on it, then they will start selling it.

Yes and no. They do mining, but the purpose is both for profit and quality control. The first batch of chips is a prototype and expected to underperform (every first design usually underperforms, I expect the same from BFL, hope they are already working on a trade-in program for the underperforming first gen ASIC ), so they will test them in the field and improve the chip design. Then they stamp out the second and improved batch and sell those to the miners. But they keep their (limited) mining operation as quality assessment tool.

[ice_chill]

Will there be a power adaptor splitter a bit like Enterpoint has done, so if someone has 5 or 10 SC Japalenos or Singles, then they don't have to use 5 or 10 power adaptors taking up just as many power sockets ?

[DutchBrat]

Will there be a power adaptor splitter a bit like Enterpoint has done, so if someone has 5 or 10 SC Japalenos or Singles, then they don't have to use 5 or 10 power adaptors taking up just as many power sockets ?

Let's first see some Jalapenos and Singles in the wild, then worry about power adaptor splitters 

[crazyates]

Will there be a power adaptor splitter a bit like Enterpoint has done, so if someone has 5 or 10 SC Japalenos or Singles, then they don't have to use 5 or 10 power adaptors taking up just as many power sockets ?

Cablez makes some PCIe power adapters for the current Single, allowing you to string together multiple Singles on a standard ATX PSU. This uses fewer wall plugs, and a 80Plus Gold PSU will use less power than the inefficient bricks the Singles ship with.

[Fanatic]

I expect the same from BFL, hope they are already working on a trade-in program for the underperforming first gen ASIC ), so they will test them in the field and improve the chip design. Then they stamp out the second and improved batch and sell those to the miners. But they keep their (limited) mining operation as quality assessment tool.

there is another way: for example the first "underperforming gen" is 25% slower, but they still can add 25% more chips per unit to keep the speed as promissed! They will have less profit, but more reputation.

[Jutarul]

I expect the same from BFL, hope they are already working on a trade-in program for the underperforming first gen ASIC ), so they will test them in the field and improve the chip design. Then they stamp out the second and improved batch and sell those to the miners. But they keep their (limited) mining operation as quality assessment tool.

there is another way: for example the first "underperforming gen" is 25% slower, but they still can add 25% more chips per unit to keep the speed as promissed! They will have less profit, but more reputation.

that implies a 25% increase in power consumption.

[the joint]

BFL has never used second hand or refurbished FPGAs.

Any comments on the original question? How are you getting on with ASIC development?

+1

[Snapman]

There are no competitors, there were some FPGA alternatives but no-one could match BFL in performance/price. So I doubt anyone will match it with ASIC.

Well meet these guys : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0

They delivered more Proof than BFL and are on schedule. If they start selling then there will be competition.

They have never delivered a product and just talk so far, look at Enterpoint, their product info and pictures looked great, people bought the board only to realize it does not work as they hoped, now a wopping 6 months later there are finally some Bitstream that are actually capable of delivering the expected performance (did I mentioned they also had some hardware errors and mistakes when they designed it) but this is FPGA, ASIC is even more complicated.
Atleast BFL has a track record of delivering something that works out of the box.

Also anyone buying shares from these mining companies are taking away the whole point of Bitcoin "Decentralized currency for the people by the people"

Thats the point, lining us all up for the long con. Especially when people send in their trade ins for ASICS, and they make a run for it with loads of usd/btc & fgpa hardware.

[||bit]

Well unless it could be fixed with firmware updates...... I would say mislead...... not scammed... Scammed ='s Money going in and nothing coming out If they send you a 1.9 Ghash/s coffee warmer instead of a 3.5gh/s coffee warmer... Well suck it up....

Profit wise it would make no difference at all, as ASIC will make GPU and FPGA unnoticeable competitors, so it will only be ASIC vs ASIC.

If all their products are 50% underspec, then all it means is that difficulty will go up 49% less than expected, so in the end the profit will be the same.

good point

[crazyates]

Well unless it could be fixed with firmware updates...... I would say mislead...... not scammed... Scammed ='s Money going in and nothing coming out If they send you a 1.9 Ghash/s coffee warmer instead of a 3.5gh/s coffee warmer... Well suck it up....

Profit wise it would make no difference at all, as ASIC will make GPU and FPGA unnoticeable competitors, so it will only be ASIC vs ASIC.

If all their products are 50% underspec, then all it means is that difficulty will go up 49% less than expected, so in the end the profit will be the same.

good point

That's a good point, but only if BFL ASICs make up 99% of the market. Considering we have 20TH/s without ASICs, and there are already ASIC competitors announcing products (some this very night), I don't think that's going to be the case.

[Frequency]

Will there be a power adaptor splitter a bit like Enterpoint has done, so if someone has 5 or 10 SC Japalenos or Singles, then they don't have to use 5 or 10 power adaptors taking up just as many power sockets ?

Let's first see some Jalapenos and Singles in the wild, then worry about power adaptor splitters 

+1

[psilan]

Thats the point, lining us all up for the long con.

Clearly this guy knows what he's talking about...

[Fjordbit]

Thats the point, lining us all up for the long con.

Clearly this guy knows what he's talking about...

Takes a scammer to know a scammer?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Thats the point, lining us all up for the long con.

Clearly this guy knows what he's talking about...

Takes a scammer to know a scammer?

I bet not much credence would have been given to Snapman's post if he wasn't tagged. One of the rare times sad tag comes in handy.

~Bruno~

[DobZombie]

Takes a scammer to know a scammer?

PEW PEW PEW!

[psilan]

Thats the point, lining us all up for the long con.

Clearly this guy knows what he's talking about...

Takes a scammer to know a scammer?

Maybe, more that his word means nothing.