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Author Topic: The banks should be repealed  (Read 2235 times)
V for Varoufakis
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April 29, 2015, 08:50:44 PM
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The money must be printed by the Ministry of Finance. Do you agree?
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April 29, 2015, 09:07:04 PM
 #2

No! Never!
That means total absence of any control. Like in Zimbabwe or Argentina. It's a bit safer when the control of the money supply is not in the hands of politicians. A bit safer I said, not much.

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April 30, 2015, 12:38:06 AM
 #3

Aboslutely never let them to print it because the politician is got so many guile. They will get some and always keep for themself without anyone notice better let the bank do it for now. May be after sometime when bitcoin skyrocketing try to repeal bank then
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April 30, 2015, 01:13:08 AM
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Banks and politicians together take wealth from everyone else by issuing money and debt and using state power to prop up their values.

In this partnership, one cannot do without the other.  The banks obviously want the state to guarantee their debt with taxpayer money, etc., but without banks, the state's issuance of money and debt would be severely limited by market pressure and public opinion.  People would much more easily see state issued money and debt as a way to receive "free" wealth and power from the public.

Banks contribute brain power to this enterprise by dreaming up innovative assets that investors might believe in at least temporarily.  The bank "deposit" was one of the greatest.  Of late they have been securitizing mortgage and consumer debt.  All of this provides a "use" for state issued money and debt so people don't use them to buy things, drive up inflation, and expose the over-issue of the state assets.

This is fundamentally why "too big to fail" and loose regulation aren't going away any time soon.

Politicians don't get elected by governing best.  They get elected for making good use of the "free" money coming from issuing debt that savers still trust.  They, as a class, are not going to eject their most profitable career partners without a fight.
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April 30, 2015, 01:39:44 AM
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No. But the European system is crazy.
Normal banks are getting the money from the central bank. Then normal banks are lending it to EU countries.

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April 30, 2015, 06:17:50 AM
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No. But the European system is crazy.
Normal banks are getting the money from the central bank. Then normal banks are lending it to EU countries.
That is the work around that the EU uses.  I will lend you money for almost nothing and you can lend it for a bit more to a country that needs it.
It's classic EU bureaucracy, why do something in one step when you can pay a middle man and rerquire more steps than necessary.

I think central banks should actually be free from politics, they have a mandate, that is to keep inflation in line, everything else they do it playing politics.
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April 30, 2015, 07:04:46 AM
 #7

The money must be printed by the Ministry of Finance. Do you agree?

the money should not be printed at all, there should be a fixed limit like with bitcoin, to raise the defaltion a bit, then you can start print again, when the inflation is extinguished

a cycle must be done to prevent another crisis like the current one
V for Varoufakis
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April 30, 2015, 10:38:48 AM
 #8

I think, it is a good idea. It is more democratic system.
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April 30, 2015, 11:17:51 AM
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I think, it is a good idea. It is more democratic system.
Democratic system we have in our countries as now is closer to fiction than to real democracy from our textbooks. You think that people have the choice and elect their representatives, not really, it is just giant puppet show. The only way money should be created is not by financial institutions (Central Bank) or political structures (Ministry of Finance) because there will be always problem how much money they print. They should disclose publicly how quantitative easing works, we need transparency in this sector more than anything.
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April 30, 2015, 11:27:18 AM
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I think, it is a good idea. It is more democratic system.
Democratic system we have in our countries as now is closer to fiction than to real democracy from our textbooks. You think that people have the choice and elect their representatives, not really, it is just giant puppet show. The only way money should be created is not by financial institutions (Central Bank) or political structures (Ministry of Finance) because there will be always problem how much money they print. They should disclose publicly how quantitative easing works, we need transparency in this sector more than anything.

Well said but what other choice do we have? There must be some organization or institution that will keep an eye on. Also in times of economic collapse those institutions must intervene (of course in a right way). So I think the question is rather haw to make those institutions independent from politics and private banks.
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April 30, 2015, 04:41:28 PM
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I think, it is a good idea. It is more democratic system.
Democratic system we have in our countries as now is closer to fiction than to real democracy from our textbooks. You think that people have the choice and elect their representatives, not really, it is just giant puppet show. The only way money should be created is not by financial institutions (Central Bank) or political structures (Ministry of Finance) because there will be always problem how much money they print. They should disclose publicly how quantitative easing works, we need transparency in this sector more than anything.

Well said but what other choice do we have? There must be some organization or institution that will keep an eye on. Also in times of economic collapse those institutions must intervene (of course in a right way). So I think the question is rather haw to make those institutions independent from politics and private banks.

Authorities should stay out of money totally.  Money is the place of gold, silver, bitcoin, and any other form that doesn't require an authority.  As soon as you have an authority, there is no way to make it independent, unless you can find the Knights of the Holy Grail and hire them.

The idea that financial crashes require central banks and governments to save the world from ruin is based on the existence of such crashes in the first place.  But these crashes are, without exception (going all the way back to the Dutch tulip bubble,) caused ultimately by the issue of money by some authority.
V for Varoufakis
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May 01, 2015, 10:33:37 AM
 #12

Politics is impossible to stay out of money. We are not living in a police state. People decide about their money.
BobK71
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May 01, 2015, 04:52:30 PM
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Politics is impossible to stay out of money. We are not living in a police state. People decide about their money.

But human society has done fine for millennia with the state mostly or completely out of money.  (The state might have minted gold or silver coins and extracted a 'seigniorage'.  When this became too big people looked for alternative monies.)

Only after the Renaissance, when economic growth was so good that governments and banks could receive a lot of free power and wealth by manipulating money, and still keep the economy more or less stable and prosperous (including using imperial devices to shift most of the pain to poorer countries,) that largely-or-completely state-based money has been possible, at least so far.
V for Varoufakis
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May 01, 2015, 05:38:32 PM
 #14

“IT'S NOT WHAT BACKS OUR MONEY, IT'S WHO CONTROLS ITS QUANTITY”

Bill Still


You need to study some history of economics. The Fiat money invented in ancient Rome. It was the most revolutionary economic system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7qIhDdST27g#t=738
ashour
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May 01, 2015, 05:54:27 PM
 #15

Politicians have no  idea of doing business. Let the banks who have better knowledge of business and finance matters print the money, look what is happening to Argentina and Zimbabwe this could happen to countries who let the ministry of finance print the money.

V for Varoufakis
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May 01, 2015, 07:41:23 PM
 #16

Again Bill Still:

"It doesn't matter what backs your money. All that matters is who controls its quantity. Will it be your elected officials or will it be some unelected banker?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7qIhDdST27g#t=1588
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May 04, 2015, 11:08:12 AM
 #17

The money must be printed by the Ministry of Finance. Do you agree?

What is your justification?

maku
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May 04, 2015, 11:09:09 AM
 #18

Authorities should stay out of money totally.  Money is the place of gold, silver, bitcoin, and any other form that doesn't require an authority.  As soon as you have an authority, there is no way to make it independent, unless you can find the Knights of the Holy Grail and hire them.

The idea that financial crashes require central banks and governments to save the world from ruin is based on the existence of such crashes in the first place.  But these crashes are, without exception (going all the way back to the Dutch tulip bubble,) caused ultimately by the issue of money by some authority.

Assuming that there won't be any economic crisis in the future is a wishful thinking. Sooner or later there will be crisis no matter who is manages/cnotrols money.


Politicians have no  idea of doing business. Let the banks who have better knowledge of business and finance matters print the money, look what is happening to Argentina and Zimbabwe this could happen to countries who let the ministry of finance print the money.

The last big economic crisis was caused by banks...
http://www.economist.com/news/schoolsbrief/21584534-effects-financial-crisis-are-still-being-felt-five-years-article
BobK71
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May 04, 2015, 12:30:28 PM
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Assuming that there won't be any economic crisis in the future is a wishful thinking. Sooner or later there will be crisis no matter who is manages/cnotrols money.


Financial asset prices go up and down naturally, people make mistakes about investing, and unexpected events happen.  All these things can move asset prices pretty significantly.  People win and lose, and if they're not forced to take risks by the monetary system, and they're reasonably sensible, they won't bet the farm on anything.  (If money's value was stable, they would probably do nothing with most of their savings.)

Major bubbles, however, requires some sort of fragility, and the biggest type of fragility happens when the state artificially props up the value of something, directly or indirectly.  The fundamental reason the state can and wants to do this (wants to because it wants to create demand for its money and debt) is that the state runs money.

People who live in the modern period have seen so many financial crises around the world that they think crises are inevitable.  This is because money has been managed by the state, and/or by the dominant world power, since the founding of the Dutch and English central banks in the 16th and 17th centuries.
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May 04, 2015, 04:23:53 PM
 #20

Again Bill Still:

"It doesn't matter what backs your money. All that matters is who controls its quantity. Will it be your elected officials or will it be some unelected banker?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7qIhDdST27g#t=1588
This Bill Still quote is on point, and that's what makes BTC the ultimate money system that will inevitably take over the entire world: No one can ever control it's quantity (total supply).
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