Russia / China Ban and strict US Regulations - Impact

[Kprawn]

We have seen some of the bigger countries turning their back on Crypto currencies.

How will a complete Bitcoin ban by China / Russia and very strict regulations in the USA impact the viability and existence of Crypto currencies?

These are some of the biggest economies in the world and their exclusion will have a huge impact?

Do you feel the remaining countries could make it viable? 

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[Amph]

couldn't they just keep using exchange(only those that don't require id) via vpn/vps, for avoiding being tracked back? it would be a solution to the ban, but for the taxation i don't know(there definitely a few ways, but i'm not sure...), you need another kind of subterfuge

[lonelybitcoin]

China and The US are the biggest bitcoin markets. If bitcoin would get banned in china, all the mining power from china and the companies would shut down(Bitmaik for example).
If they do it. Bitcoin will probably die...

[madken7777]

couldn't they just keep using exchange(only those that don't require id) via vpn/vps, for avoiding being tracked back? it would be a solution to the ban, but for the taxation i don't know(there definitely a few, but i'm not sure...), you need another kind of subterfuge

Bitcoin is still a currency that is depended on the banking industry. It isn't a standalone currency like gold or other metal.

[Amph]

China and The US are the biggest bitcoin markets. If bitcoin would get banned in china, all the mining power from china and the companies would shut down(Bitmaik for example).
If they do it. Bitcoin will probably die...

i don't think so, by the time the diff will reduce, new machines will take the place of those china farm, many from casual miners hoping for a greater return in that short time, the price should drop a little because of the panic

you need much more than that to kill bitcoin(i do think that you truly cannot kill it in the more deep meaning of the word)

couldn't they just keep using exchange(only those that don't require id) via vpn/vps, for avoiding being tracked back? it would be a solution to the ban, but for the taxation i don't know(there definitely a few, but i'm not sure...), you need another kind of subterfuge

Bitcoin is still a currency that is depended on the banking industry. It isn't a standalone currency like gold or other metal.

this only because we keep dumping it on fiat instead of bartering it with goods

[Kprawn]

I am not talking just about mining... The biggest amount of nodes are run from these areas and the majority of the merchants and Bitcoin users come from these areas.

Will we have a big enough user base to sustain a viable currency..?

Will Smart contract be developed to it's full potential? ....Will the Blockchain and innovation surround it, be developed by other Core developers from other countries, other than the USA guys?

We say the Blockchain is decentralized, but most of the development for the protocol, is centralized in the USA.

What is Plan B for a scenario, like this? 

[Alley]

China wants to be the next world economy.  I have a hard time believing they will concede bitcoin to the united States.

[sdmathis]

Ironically, regulating Bitcoin might actually help it gain acceptance by the general public. For some reason, much of the public has misplaced their trust in the government and would feel more secure about Bitcoin if it is regulated and controlled. Of course that would destroy Bitcoin as far as its original intent goes and basically make it the equivalent of electronic fiat.

[Kprawn]

China wants to be the next world economy.  I have a hard time believing they will concede bitcoin to the united States.

I doubt if they trust the dominance that the USA have in the development of the protocol. I acctually would have thought that they would have already created a Alt coin that would be the Bitcoin competition in China, with their own development team.

They already "copy" about everything in Shen Zen that are being created in the west, why not Bitcoin? 

They should have a large enough economy and population to sustain their own crypto currency. The question is, will the people use it willingly or will they be forced?

China like to be in control of everything, and I can see a future where they will create their own crypto currency and break away from Bitcoin, and even Ban it totally in their country.

I would suggest, opening up the development to a global team of people, including China, to increase trust world wide. {Yes, a hard fork cannot be implemented without concensus, but the perceived threat of single dominance in development, could cause countries to turn their back on Bitcoin}

[deisik]

China wants to be the next world economy.  I have a hard time believing they will concede bitcoin to the united States.

I doubt if they trust the dominance that the USA have in the development of the protocol. I acctually would have thought that they would have already created a Alt coin that would be the Bitcoin competition in China, with their own development team.

They already "copy" about everything in Shen Zen that are being created in the west, why not Bitcoin? 

They should have a large enough economy and population to sustain their own crypto currency. The question is, will the people use it willingly or will they be forced?

China like to be in control of everything, and I can see a future where they will create their own crypto currency and break away from Bitcoin, and even Ban it totally in their country.

I see no reason why the Chinese government (or any government, for that matter) would want to create their own cryptocurrency. It is like dropping the money they already have and setting up a new currency, the step for which there is neither technological not economic grounds. In a sense, a modern fiat currency already has all the cryptography it needs built in by the central bank (being mostly a digital money)...

[maku]

Even if China and US ban bitcoin there are still many countries in which you can use btc (almost whole Europe). And I don't know if US government will be able to block every bitcoin transactions, you can always use foreign services to use btc. or exchange it for dollars.

[Gargulan]

Even if China and US ban bitcoin there are still many countries in which you can use btc (almost whole Europe). And I don't know if US government will be able to block every bitcoin transactions, you can always use foreign services to use btc. or exchange it for dollars.

Btc will not be competitive without local bank support.

[NapoleonBonaparte]

Even if China and US ban bitcoin there are still many countries in which you can use btc (almost whole Europe). And I don't know if US government will be able to block every bitcoin transactions, you can always use foreign services to use btc. or exchange it for dollars.

Btc will not be competitive without local bank support.

Why is that? Isn't btc suppose to replace the current banking system.

[Amph]

Even if China and US ban bitcoin there are still many countries in which you can use btc (almost whole Europe). And I don't know if US government will be able to block every bitcoin transactions, you can always use foreign services to use btc. or exchange it for dollars.

Btc will not be competitive without local bank support.

Why is that? Isn't btc suppose to replace the current banking system.

he mean that it would be troublesome to go abroad for using bitcoin, so this ban could seriously hamper the growth of bitcoin

but it will be always possible to find a way and use your bitcoin in your local zone, we don't need banks to exchange bitcoin, you can do it in real life and not online

[sdmathis]

Even if China and US ban bitcoin there are still many countries in which you can use btc (almost whole Europe). And I don't know if US government will be able to block every bitcoin transactions, you can always use foreign services to use btc. or exchange it for dollars.

The U.S. isn't going to ban Bitcoin. They will regulate the hell out of it though.

[Kaneki]

we can not dismiss the truth that this had implications for the development of Crypto currencies, but it is not going to make Crypto currencies die because its not in the major economies, there is still a small economy countries and communities around the world who use it and is active enough to make success in the future.

[maku]

we can not dismiss the truth that this had implications for the development of Crypto currencies, but it is not going to make Crypto currencies die because its not in the major economies, there is still a small economy countries and communities around the world who use it and is active enough to make success in the future.

Also bitcoin is spread throughout internet and it would be very difficult to ban because there is no single authority to shut down. You could make btc illegal but there are ways to to surpass this.

[Kprawn]

we can not dismiss the truth that this had implications for the development of Crypto currencies, but it is not going to make Crypto currencies die because its not in the major economies, there is still a small economy countries and communities around the world who use it and is active enough to make success in the future.

Also bitcoin is spread throughout internet and it would be very difficult to ban because there is no single authority to shut down. You could make btc illegal but there are ways to to surpass this.

If you ban it, no merchant within that countries borders would be allowed to accept it as a payment method. {That shuts the incentive to use it locally off to the general public}

If you accept it "online" and it gets traced back to you, it will lead to fines or imprisonment. {It's a illegal currency}

Most people would go underground, but it will still hurt the whole Bitcoin community. 

[mrhelpful]

I feel like most of these moves are based on bigger institutions that dont want bitcoin to grow.

If a country bans something, usually they expect others to follow hence why US has strict rules. Most of these transactions are gambling related anyways, so the only impact at this moment are those gambling operators.

If they cant move money, its harder for them to operate. Theres not much impact in overall value since everyone has their own view why they hold bitcoin, but this is based on what I see.

[Mrpumperitis]

We have seen some of the bigger countries turning their back on Crypto currencies.

How will a complete Bitcoin ban by China / Russia and very strict regulations in the USA impact the viability and existence of Crypto currencies?

These are some of the biggest economies in the world and their exclusion will have a huge impact?

Do you feel the remaining countries could make it viable? 

no need to worry, check this out
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=997356.0  made by ICM , prob the best crypto dev ive seen in years 

[techgeek]

we can not dismiss the truth that this had implications for the development of Crypto currencies, but it is not going to make Crypto currencies die because its not in the major economies, there is still a small economy countries and communities around the world who use it and is active enough to make success in the future.

Also bitcoin is spread throughout internet and it would be very difficult to ban because there is no single authority to shut down. You could make btc illegal but there are ways to to surpass this.

If you ban it, no merchant within that countries borders would be allowed to accept it as a payment method. {That shuts the incentive to use it locally off to the general public}

If you accept it "online" and it gets traced back to you, it will lead to fines or imprisonment. {It's a illegal currency}

Most people would go underground, but it will still hurt the whole Bitcoin community. 

Its not a option, so yeah going underground becomes a forced option.

As for the tracing back concept, its why people mix their coins to avoid that conflict depending the volume. Honestly, most of these coins are going for gambling maybe a small percent is held personal reasons to cold wallets.

The problem still though is if the country bans it, it deletes the entire community in that region being less global.

[Natalia_AnatolioPAMM]

Even if China and US ban bitcoin there are still many countries in which you can use btc (almost whole Europe). And I don't know if US government will be able to block every bitcoin transactions, you can always use foreign services to use btc. or exchange it for dollars.

sooner or later they will find the way

[Kprawn]

We have seen some of the bigger countries turning their back on Crypto currencies.

How will a complete Bitcoin ban by China / Russia and very strict regulations in the USA impact the viability and existence of Crypto currencies?

These are some of the biggest economies in the world and their exclusion will have a huge impact?

Do you feel the remaining countries could make it viable?  

no need to worry, check this out
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=997356.0  made by ICM , prob the best crypto dev ive seen in years  

Keep the promotion for Alt coins in the Alt coins section please... I see no reason, why a Alt coin would make a difference, if "Crypto currencies" are banned.

we can not dismiss the truth that this had implications for the development of Crypto currencies, but it is not going to make Crypto currencies die because its not in the major economies, there is still a small economy countries and communities around the world who use it and is active enough to make success in the future.

Also bitcoin is spread throughout internet and it would be very difficult to ban because there is no single authority to shut down. You could make btc illegal but there are ways to to surpass this.

If you ban it, no merchant within that countries borders would be allowed to accept it as a payment method. {That shuts the incentive to use it locally off to the general public}

If you accept it "online" and it gets traced back to you, it will lead to fines or imprisonment. {It's a illegal currency}

Most people would go underground, but it will still hurt the whole Bitcoin community.  

Its not a option, so yeah going underground becomes a forced option.

As for the tracing back concept, its why people mix their coins to avoid that conflict depending the volume. Honestly, most of these coins are going for gambling maybe a small percent is held personal reasons to cold wallets.

The problem still though is if the country bans it, it deletes the entire community in that region being less global.

How will mixing coins, help with you being able to spend your coins in a country where "Crypto currencies" are banned? You can mix as much as you want, if there are no merchants to spend it, you are stuffed.

If they stop the trade, they stop the currency.   {Let's say people started to use goats to trade, and the government ban goats for trade... You can have 1000s of goats, and nobody can use it, because it's banned... So the demand for goats will decrease }

[Amph]

How will mixing coins, help with you being able to spend your coins in a country where "Crypto currencies" are banned? You can mix as much as you want, if there are no merchants to spend it, you are stuffed.

If they stop the trade, they stop the currency.   {Let's say people started to use goats to trade, and the government ban goats for trade... You can have 1000s of goats, and nobody can use it, because it's banned... So the demand for goats will decrease }

unless a rebellion happens, what if everyone start use bitcoin even if it is banned in that specific country? they can't for sure arrest everyone, people need to work more together to limit or crashing the government decisions

china and russia don't live in a dictatorship...

[maku]

How will mixing coins, help with you being able to spend your coins in a country where "Crypto currencies" are banned? You can mix as much as you want, if there are no merchants to spend it, you are stuffed.

If they stop the trade, they stop the currency.   {Let's say people started to use goats to trade, and the government ban goats for trade... You can have 1000s of goats, and nobody can use it, because it's banned... So the demand for goats will decrease }

unless a rebellion happens, what if everyone start use bitcoin even if it is banned in that specific country? they can't for sure arrest everyone, people need to work more together to limit or crashing the government decisions

china and russia don't live in a dictatorship...

Russia not a dictatorship? I wonder...

But as for rebellions and stuff, both countries are known for not respecting human rights (Russia with the LGBT issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia China in general have issues with human rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China).
So even if some group would like to protest or brake the rules I'm sure they would be punished for that. The only solution imo is either big protest with majority of the country population or governments changing their minds (for example because they see some gains for themselves in allowing bitcoin be legal).

[Natalia_AnatolioPAMM]

How will mixing coins, help with you being able to spend your coins in a country where "Crypto currencies" are banned? You can mix as much as you want, if there are no merchants to spend it, you are stuffed.

If they stop the trade, they stop the currency.   {Let's say people started to use goats to trade, and the government ban goats for trade... You can have 1000s of goats, and nobody can use it, because it's banned... So the demand for goats will decrease }

unless a rebellion happens, what if everyone start use bitcoin even if it is banned in that specific country? they can't for sure arrest everyone, people need to work more together to limit or crashing the government decisions

china and russia don't live in a dictatorship...

Russia not a dictatorship? I wonder...

But as for rebellions and stuff, both countries are known for not respecting human rights (Russia with the LGBT issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia China in general have issues with human rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China).
So even if some group would like to protest or brake the rules I'm sure they would be punished for that. The only solution imo is either big protest with majority of the country population or governments changing their minds (for example because they see some gains for themselves in allowing bitcoin be legal).

you wonder? making "prove" from Wikipedia? Good analysis... Russia is not a dictatorship, believe me. All that stuff is pro-american, political anti-russian propaganda. People are free to live, sleep and do whatever they want with anyone they want, the only thing which is prohibited is an lgbt propaganda within children and aimed to children, and that legal act is supported by the majority of population  in here. So where's dictation? I've never seen it, living here for the whole life, and all the people who think further than wiki posts in russia also think so.

[maku]

How will mixing coins, help with you being able to spend your coins in a country where "Crypto currencies" are banned? You can mix as much as you want, if there are no merchants to spend it, you are stuffed.

If they stop the trade, they stop the currency.   {Let's say people started to use goats to trade, and the government ban goats for trade... You can have 1000s of goats, and nobody can use it, because it's banned... So the demand for goats will decrease }

unless a rebellion happens, what if everyone start use bitcoin even if it is banned in that specific country? they can't for sure arrest everyone, people need to work more together to limit or crashing the government decisions

china and russia don't live in a dictatorship...

Russia not a dictatorship? I wonder...

But as for rebellions and stuff, both countries are known for not respecting human rights (Russia with the LGBT issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia China in general have issues with human rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China).
So even if some group would like to protest or brake the rules I'm sure they would be punished for that. The only solution imo is either big protest with majority of the country population or governments changing their minds (for example because they see some gains for themselves in allowing bitcoin be legal).

you wonder? making "prove" from Wikipedia? Good analysis... Russia is not a dictatorship, believe me. All that stuff is pro-american, political anti-russian propaganda. People are free to live, sleep and do whatever they want with anyone they want, the only thing which is prohibited is an lgbt propaganda within children and aimed to children, and that legal act is supported by the majority of population  in here. So where's dictation? I've never seen it, living here for the whole life, and all the people who think further than wiki posts in russia also think so.

How about Putin being president for the third time? how about agreement between Putin and Medvedev on placing Putin back on president seat?
http://www.euractiv.com/global-europe/putin-medvedev-seal-power-sharin-news-507903
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-puppet-president-medvedev-s-betrayal-of-russian-democracy-a-789767-2.html
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-09/24/c_131158004.htm
Putin is dictating what he wants and everybody is following him.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-29/2015-the-year-of-the-putin-dictatorship
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/13/new-model-dictator-putin-sisi-erdogan/

[RodeoX]

I don't know what the "strict" regulations are in the US?

[Natalia_AnatolioPAMM]

How will mixing coins, help with you being able to spend your coins in a country where "Crypto currencies" are banned? You can mix as much as you want, if there are no merchants to spend it, you are stuffed.

If they stop the trade, they stop the currency.   {Let's say people started to use goats to trade, and the government ban goats for trade... You can have 1000s of goats, and nobody can use it, because it's banned... So the demand for goats will decrease }

unless a rebellion happens, what if everyone start use bitcoin even if it is banned in that specific country? they can't for sure arrest everyone, people need to work more together to limit or crashing the government decisions

china and russia don't live in a dictatorship...

Russia not a dictatorship? I wonder...

But as for rebellions and stuff, both countries are known for not respecting human rights (Russia with the LGBT issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia China in general have issues with human rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China).
So even if some group would like to protest or brake the rules I'm sure they would be punished for that. The only solution imo is either big protest with majority of the country population or governments changing their minds (for example because they see some gains for themselves in allowing bitcoin be legal).

you wonder? making "prove" from Wikipedia? Good analysis... Russia is not a dictatorship, believe me. All that stuff is pro-american, political anti-russian propaganda. People are free to live, sleep and do whatever they want with anyone they want, the only thing which is prohibited is an lgbt propaganda within children and aimed to children, and that legal act is supported by the majority of population  in here. So where's dictation? I've never seen it, living here for the whole life, and all the people who think further than wiki posts in russia also think so.

How about Putin being president for the third time? how about agreement between Putin and Medvedev on placing Putin back on president seat?
http://www.euractiv.com/global-europe/putin-medvedev-seal-power-sharin-news-507903
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-puppet-president-medvedev-s-betrayal-of-russian-democracy-a-789767-2.html
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-09/24/c_131158004.htm
Putin is dictating what he wants and everybody is following him.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-29/2015-the-year-of-the-putin-dictatorship
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/13/new-model-dictator-putin-sisi-erdogan/

ok, if  you're so convinced by these articles to be more right   than me by living here for 20+ years - there's no reason to argue. And all my friends and relatives living here as well, and their friends etc... If you think you know better than all these people and their summary opinion- ok. you win have fun reading all other stuff

[Kprawn]

Dictatorship or not... These are still huge economies that can have a major impact on the progress of crypto currencies.

The USA and as of lately India, can over regulate or Ban Bitcoin and a combination of the two, could seriously hurt the whole community.

The question is, can we afford to loose the backing of these governments and what can we do, to influence their decisions to include crypto currencies into their monetary plans.

Some people see them as the enemy... We want them to be "Crypto-friendly" 

[Amph]

I don't know what the "strict" regulations are in the US?

this is the notice of 2014, is a long read

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

there are some rules about a limit of 600 after that you need to declare your income, if dealing with bitcoin

[deisik]

How about Putin being president for the third time? how about agreement between Putin and Medvedev on placing Putin back on president seat?
http://www.euractiv.com/global-europe/putin-medvedev-seal-power-sharin-news-507903
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-puppet-president-medvedev-s-betrayal-of-russian-democracy-a-789767-2.html
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-09/24/c_131158004.htm
Putin is dictating what he wants and everybody is following him.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-29/2015-the-year-of-the-putin-dictatorship
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/13/new-model-dictator-putin-sisi-erdogan/

ok, if  you're so convinced by these articles to be more right   than me by living here for 20+ years - there's no reason to argue. And all my friends and relatives living here as well, and their friends etc... If you think you know better than all these people and their summary opinion- ok. you win have fun reading all other stuff

Russia is surely not a dictatorship, at least as of now. Putin is evidently not dictating, but this is not because he can't (i.e. doesn't have the power), but since he is not that type of a person. Despite that, I don't think there is much room for debate about whether he would turn into one if he wanted to...