Bitcoin Forum
June 28, 2024, 07:22:53 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: How To Stake Efficiently PoS Coins  (Read 5054 times)
cakir (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000


★ BitClave ICO: 15/09/17 ★


View Profile WWW
May 05, 2015, 10:30:30 PM
 #1

This topic is quite controversial, and there're 2 sides of this one.
One side says; bigger tx's means bigger rewards
Other side says; smaller tx's, smaller but more often rewards.

And recently "DPoS" became popular. How to decide what's best way to stake more?

First of all you need to learn something: "min stake age" is very important!
How so?

Let's say I've mined xxcoin and I've total 10K and I got them at once to my wallet. I've waited 4 hours for the "min stake age". And it staked, quite good right? But there's a catch! You've to wait another 4 hours to stake again! Because when you create a pos block your input is divided into 2 tx's and it's age becomes zero.
So, if you're mining a pos coin; withdrew your coins at a time as 500,1000 etc.
After 1 hour your first withdrawal; you'll withdraw 2nd one and you'll get another 500 coin etc.
After your first tx created a pos block then your wallet won't wait for another 4 hours to stake again.

With DPoS I suggest; split them as much as you can. If one wallet has 1 x 10k tx and other one has 20 x 500 tx's
First wallet misses the DPoS coins after the first stake. But the second one will be able to create PoS coins because it has 19 aged tx's.

Also There's another issue: "Max Stake Age".
Let's say you've mined on the first day and PoW lasted 3 days; and PoS started after PoW. Min stake age is 4 hours and Max stake age is 1 day.
On the 3rd day your coins will be too aged and you won't be able to stake, Because they're too old to stake.
But you can easily solve this problem: Calculate the time;
For instance;
block time: 1 min
pow ends and pos starts at: 4k
min stake age: 4 hours.
current pow block: 3.5k

calculation: 4 hours = 60*4 = 240 blocks. So If you want to stake immediately you need to move your coins at (4000-240)= 3760th block or 1-2 early etc.

Finally; if there's a "min stake age" you need to split your inputs in case of starving.


                  ,'#██+:                 
              ,█████████████'             
            +██████████████████           
          ;██████████████████████         
         ███████:         .███████`       
        ██████               ;█████'      
      `█████                   #████#     
      ████+                     `████+    
     ████:                        ████,   
    ████:    .#              █     ████   
   ;███+     ██             ███     ████  
   ████     ███'            ███.    '███, 
  +███     #████           ,████     ████ 
  ████     █████ .+██████: █████+    `███.
 ,███     ███████████████████████     ████
 ████     ███████████████████████'    :███
 ███:    +████████████████████████     ███`
 ███     █████████████████████████`    ███+
,███     ██████████████████████████    #███
'███    '██████████████████████████    ;███
#███    ███████████████████████████    ,███
████    ███████████████████████████.   .███
████    ███████████████████████████'   .███
+███    ███████████████████████████+   :███
:███    ███████████████████████████'   +███
 ███    ███████████████████████████.   ███#
 ███.   #██████████████████████████    ███,
 ████    █████████████████████████+   `███
 '███    '████████████████████████    ████
  ███;    ███████████████████████     ███;
  ████     #████████████████████     ████ 
   ███#     .██████████████████     `███+ 
   ████`      ;██████████████       ████  
    ████         '███████#.        ████.  
    .████                         █████   
     '████                       █████    
      #████'                    █████     
       +█████`                ██████      
        ,██████:           `███████       
          ████████#;,..:+████████.        
           ,███████████████████+          
             .███████████████;            
                `+███████#,               
hunterwolf
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1108
Merit: 1002



View Profile
May 12, 2015, 01:45:04 AM
 #2

This topic is quite controversial, and there're 2 sides of this one.
One side says; bigger tx's means bigger rewards
Other side says; smaller tx's, smaller but more often rewards.

And recently "DPoS" became popular. How to decide what's best way to stake more?

First of all you need to learn something: "min stake age" is very important!
How so?

Let's say I've mined xxcoin and I've total 10K and I got them at once to my wallet. I've waited 4 hours for the "min stake age". And it staked, quite good right? But there's a catch! You've to wait another 4 hours to stake again! Because when you create a pos block your input is divided into 2 tx's and it's age becomes zero.
So, if you're mining a pos coin; withdrew your coins at a time as 500,1000 etc.
After 1 hour your first withdrawal; you'll withdraw 2nd one and you'll get another 500 coin etc.
After your first tx created a pos block then your wallet won't wait for another 4 hours to stake again.

With DPoS I suggest; split them as much as you can. If one wallet has 1 x 10k tx and other one has 20 x 500 tx's
First wallet misses the DPoS coins after the first stake. But the second one will be able to create PoS coins because it has 19 aged tx's.

Also There's another issue: "Max Stake Age".
Let's say you've mined on the first day and PoW lasted 3 days; and PoS started after PoW. Min stake age is 4 hours and Max stake age is 1 day.
On the 3rd day your coins will be too aged and you won't be able to stake, Because they're too old to stake.
But you can easily solve this problem: Calculate the time;
For instance;
block time: 1 min
pow ends and pos starts at: 4k
min stake age: 4 hours.
current pow block: 3.5k

calculation: 4 hours = 60*4 = 240 blocks. So If you want to stake immediately you need to move your coins at (4000-240)= 3760th block or 1-2 early etc.

Finally; if there's a "min stake age" you need to split your inputs in case of starving.

thx for good info  Grin
MRKLYE
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358
Merit: 1003


Designer - Developer


View Profile WWW
May 12, 2015, 01:51:20 AM
 #3

When mining POS coins its best to split up your coins into smaller stacks.. so when they do stake it doesn't take your whole pile out.
Some coins will hold the coins you used to stake for a hundred (more or less for some coins) blocks which will decrease your over all stake weight..
Its much better to have a large sum of small stacks than a large stack by itself is the general rule though.


▄▄███████████▄▄
▄████▀▀`````````▀▀████▄
███▀```````````````````▀███
███`````````````````````````███
██```````````██``██````````````██
██````````▄▄▄▄██▄▄██▄▄▄▄`````````██
██`````````▀██████████████▄````````██
██`````````````███`````▀████`````````██
▐█▌`````````````███`````▄███▀`````````▐█▌
▐█▌`````````````███████████▄``````````▐█▌
▐█▌`````````````███▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄````````▐█▌
▐█▌`````````````███```````████````````▐█▌
██`````````````███`````▄▄████````````██
██`````````▄██████████████▀````````██
██````````▀▀▀▀██▀▀██▀▀▀▀`````````██
██```````````██``██````````````██
███`````````````````````````███
███▄```````````````````▄███
▀████▄▄`````````▄▄████▀
▀▀███████████▀▀
FREE
BITCOINS.com





















`````````▄
````````▄█▄
``````▄█████▄
`````█████████
```▄███████████▄
``███████████████
`█████████████████
███████████████████
███████████████████
██▌▀███████████████
`██``▀████████████
``██▄```▀████████
```▀███▄▄`█████▀
``````▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

FAUCET
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀



``````````````````▄▄▄▄▄▄
``````````````````██████
``````````````````██████
``````````````````██████
``````````██████``██████
``````````██████``██████
``██████``██████``██████
``██████``██████``██████
``██████``██████``██████
``██████``██████``██████
``██████``██████``██████

██████████████████████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

XCHANGE
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀



```````````▄
`````````▄██
```````▄████
`````▄██████████▄
`````▀███████████▄
```````▀████``▀████
█``````▄`▀██````▀██
██▄````██▄`▀``````█
████▄``████▄
`▀███████████▄
``▀██████████▀
```````████▀
```````██▀
```````▀

SWAP
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
cakir (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000


★ BitClave ICO: 15/09/17 ★


View Profile WWW
May 14, 2015, 12:22:40 AM
 #4

When mining POS coins its best to split up your coins into smaller stacks.. so when they do stake it doesn't take your whole pile out.
Some coins will hold the coins you used to stake for a hundred (more or less for some coins) blocks which will decrease your over all stake weight..
Its much better to have a large sum of small stacks than a large stack by itself is the general rule though.
Yeap that's it. Here's a sample calculation:
Let's say you've 1 tx in your wallet and it's 1000 coins, those generate 50 weight every hour and it needs 30 weight to generate PoS block.
On the 40th minute it'll create 1 block. and you'll have to wait another "min stake age" to create another one.

Let's say you've split those 1000 coins into 100 coins;
Each 100 coins will generate ~4 weight in 1 hour and you'll create the first block on 50th minute but wait! you'll be able to generate other PoS blocks in an hour because you still have matured coins and your weight is down only 4 because PoS only downs the used tx's weight!




                  ,'#██+:                 
              ,█████████████'             
            +██████████████████           
          ;██████████████████████         
         ███████:         .███████`       
        ██████               ;█████'      
      `█████                   #████#     
      ████+                     `████+    
     ████:                        ████,   
    ████:    .#              █     ████   
   ;███+     ██             ███     ████  
   ████     ███'            ███.    '███, 
  +███     #████           ,████     ████ 
  ████     █████ .+██████: █████+    `███.
 ,███     ███████████████████████     ████
 ████     ███████████████████████'    :███
 ███:    +████████████████████████     ███`
 ███     █████████████████████████`    ███+
,███     ██████████████████████████    #███
'███    '██████████████████████████    ;███
#███    ███████████████████████████    ,███
████    ███████████████████████████.   .███
████    ███████████████████████████'   .███
+███    ███████████████████████████+   :███
:███    ███████████████████████████'   +███
 ███    ███████████████████████████.   ███#
 ███.   #██████████████████████████    ███,
 ████    █████████████████████████+   `███
 '███    '████████████████████████    ████
  ███;    ███████████████████████     ███;
  ████     #████████████████████     ████ 
   ███#     .██████████████████     `███+ 
   ████`      ;██████████████       ████  
    ████         '███████#.        ████.  
    .████                         █████   
     '████                       █████    
      #████'                    █████     
       +█████`                ██████      
        ,██████:           `███████       
          ████████#;,..:+████████.        
           ,███████████████████+          
             .███████████████;            
                `+███████#,               
Ingatqhvq
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500



View Profile
May 14, 2015, 04:29:52 AM
 #5

You should buy more coins if you want to stake efficiently pos coins. i think this is the only way.
Ayle56
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 185
Merit: 100



View Profile
May 14, 2015, 11:53:52 AM
 #6

I found some PoS coins worked OK. but some never stopped staking. Those must have only required a very low coin age of a few hours before you could stake them again.
sotisoti
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 762
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 31, 2017, 03:45:12 AM
 #7

Interesting, so iirc PoS applies on 'per tx' basis rather than on 'per wallet' basis? Any disadvantages if I create 1000 txs for 1000 coins?

Bitrated user: sotisoti.
pralala22
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 158
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 11, 2017, 04:55:37 PM
 #8

If i decide to stake on a laptop , is there any problem to stake more coins at the same time ? Could be any conflict with the wallets or it would consume a lot of resources ? Thanks !
B1tUnl0ck3r
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 854
Merit: 277

liife threw a tempest at you? be a coconut !


View Profile
July 11, 2017, 07:39:57 PM
 #9

This topic is quite controversial, and there're 2 sides of this one.
One side says; bigger tx's means bigger rewards
Other side says; smaller tx's, smaller but more often rewards.


Hi, thanks for bringing the topic up. It's an interesting discussion. A third aspect worth taking into account is the energy required to run the wallet.

Personally I am staking PIVX at 16W/h.

Then the subject of smaller vs bigger stakes is really worth finding the correct answer.

When mining POS coins its best to split up your coins into smaller stacks.. so when they do stake it doesn't take your whole pile out.
Some coins will hold the coins you used to stake for a hundred (more or less for some coins) blocks which will decrease your over all stake weight..
Its much better to have a large sum of small stacks than a large stack by itself is the general rule though.

When mining POS coins its best to split up your coins into smaller stacks.. so when they do stake it doesn't take your whole pile out.
Some coins will hold the coins you used to stake for a hundred (more or less for some coins) blocks which will decrease your over all stake weight..
Its much better to have a large sum of small stacks than a large stack by itself is the general rule though.
Yeap that's it. Here's a sample calculation:
Let's say you've 1 tx in your wallet and it's 1000 coins, those generate 50 weight every hour and it needs 30 weight to generate PoS block.
On the 40th minute it'll create 1 block. and you'll have to wait another "min stake age" to create another one.

Let's say you've split those 1000 coins into 100 coins;
Each 100 coins will generate ~4 weight in 1 hour and you'll create the first block on 50th minute but wait! you'll be able to generate other PoS blocks in an hour because you still have matured coins and your weight is down only 4 because PoS only downs the used tx's weight!


it's an great observation. Thank you both. However what do you think of this statement?

Quote
The Block Reward in most Proof of Stake systems is unfortunately based on Coin Age. In
theory, this is to distribute interest fairly by allowing nodes to receive latent payments
due. It is an attempt to keep a common APR. However, this system does not work
because nodes can stay disconnected and with many split inputs, reconnect to the network
and game the reward system. Also, it does not give nodes any incentive to stay connected.
In a decentralized system, the more nodes connected the better the security since it shifts
trust from a single entity to the network itself.

You can always check http://cryptocoin.cc/table.php?cryptocoin=Pivx to have an idea about your staking. However like a previous poster said, not everyone is staking... so it's highly realistic to expect improved odds.

it would be better to avoid coin age based pos systems, don't you think?

Interesting, so iirc PoS applies on 'per tx' basis rather than on 'per wallet' basis? Any disadvantages if I create 1000 txs for 1000 coins?

Per address, if you tx on the same address I am not sure it works?

If i decide to stake on a laptop , is there any problem to stake more coins at the same time ? Could be any conflict with the wallets or it would consume a lot of resources ? Thanks !

you can always check the cpu/ram/disk usages to see if adding a wallet is too much... and think about keeping the laptop at reasonable temps.

When the people of the world will get that covid was intentionally released to frame china, steal the election from trump, assure massive bail outs and foster the forced vaccination agendas...they will forget, like 911, wmds in irak, uss liberty or pedogate.
Jpti
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 560
Merit: 10


View Profile
October 17, 2017, 09:31:44 PM
 #10

Thanks for the post. It did answered my question.
So, the reason why my staked and spendable amount keeps changing is the amount of matured and unmatured coins.
But even though you get regular rewards using multiple address, isn't the reward per time be the same using just one in the long run?

=====================================================
BILLCRYPT - CREATING HISTORY
=====================================================
matheussiq8
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 81
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 22, 2017, 10:46:12 AM
 #11

Was discussing in some forums that higher coin ages (within the max age permitted) would give you better stakes? Anyone has experiences with this?Ç
Jonashe
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 194
Merit: 100


CryptoPuzzle.com developer


View Profile WWW
November 22, 2017, 10:50:27 AM
 #12

Was discussing in some forums that higher coin ages (within the max age permitted) would give you better stakes? Anyone has experiences with this?Ç

It's a limit to force staker to freeze their coin for a long time. So it can't be a reward for every stake older in the network. It's for long time investment, same as miner who bought rigs and have to use it on this specific network.

https://cryptopuzzle.com : NFT token on Ethereum Blockchain. Now on beta test on Ropsten Ethereum Network !
Arvydas77
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 504


★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


View Profile WWW
November 22, 2017, 10:52:37 AM
 #13

When mining POS coins its best to split up your coins into smaller stacks.. so when they do stake it doesn't take your whole pile out.
Some coins will hold the coins you used to stake for a hundred (more or less for some coins) blocks which will decrease your over all stake weight..
Its much better to have a large sum of small stacks than a large stack by itself is the general rule though.

I agree with your explanation and it pays off the best. I can confirm this staking method from my own experience.



.
.BIG WINNER!.
[15.00000000 BTC]


▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████▀▀██████████
█████████░░░░█████████
██████████▄▄██████████
███████▀▀████▀▀███████
██████░░░░██░░░░██████
███████▄▄████▄▄███████
████▀▀████▀▀████▀▀████
███░░░░██░░░░██░░░░███
████▄▄████▄▄████▄▄████
██████████████████████

▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀██▀▀████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄████
█████░░▄███▄░░░░██████
█████▄▄███▀░░░░▄██████
█████████░░░░░░███████
████████░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░███████
███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████

██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███████████▀▀▄▄█░░░░░█
█████████▀░░█████░░░░█
███████▀░░░░░████▀░░░▀
██████░░░░░░░░▀▄▄█████
█████░▄░░░░░▄██████▀▀█
████░████▄░███████░░░░
███░█████░█████████░░█
███░░░▀█░██████████░░█
███░░░░░░████▀▀██▀░░░░
███░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░

██░▄▄▄▄░████▄▄██▄░░░░
████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██
█████████████░█▀▀▀█░███
██████████▀▀░█▀░░░▀█░▀▀
███████▀░▄▄█░█░░░░░█░█▄
████▀░▄▄████░▀█░░░█▀░██
███░▄████▀▀░▄░▀█░█▀░▄░▀
█▀░███▀▀▀░░███░▀█▀░███░
▀░███▀░░░░░████▄░▄████░
░███▀░░░░░░░█████████░░
░███░░░░░░░░░███████░░░
███▀░██░░░░░░▀░▄▄▄░▀░░░
███░██████▄▄░▄█████▄░▄▄

██░████████░███████░█
▄████████████████████▄
████████▀▀░░░▀▀███████
███▀▀░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░▀▀▀██
██░▀▀▄▄░░░▀▀▀░░░▄▄▀▀██
██░▄▄░░▀▀▄▄░▄▄▀▀░░░░██
██░▀▀░░░░░░█░░░░░██░██
██░░░▄▄░░░░█░██░░░░░██
██░░░▀▀░░░░█░░░░░░░░██
██░░░░░▄▄░░█░░░░░██░██
██▄░░░░▀▀░░█░██░░░░░██
█████▄▄░░░░█░░░░▄▄████
█████████▄▄█▄▄████████

▀████████████████████▀




Rainbot
Daily Quests
Faucet
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!