You never backuped your wallet.dat?

[Gabi]

You never backuped your wallet? Then you deserve to lost that btc.

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[kjj]

You never backuped your wallet? Then you deserve to lost that btc.

Heh.  Maybe we can get the devs to make the client pop up a dialog box with this quote the first time it starts.

[Gabi]

You never backuped your wallet? Then you deserve to lost that btc.

Heh.  Maybe we can get the devs to make the client pop up a dialog box with this quote the first time it starts.

Would be nice 

But well, it's not a bitcoin-only thing. Almost no one do backups, not until they lose something of value. Then they will cry and then maybe they will start backuping.

[Fiyasko]

You never backuped your wallet? Then you deserve to lost that btc.

Heh.  Maybe we can get the devs to make the client pop up a dialog box with this quote the first time it starts.

WE NEED THIS, I could Definitly use a 30 day reminder of "Hey dude... You should backup your wallet..."

[mendoza]

...

WE NEED THIS, I could Definitly use a 30 day reminder of "Hey dude... You should backup your wallet..."

Why backup so often? i think no one use the online wallet for storing much coin and the old backup till contains all money... or not???

I missed something?

[Gabi]

You need to backup it before you put money into it. And then backup it when you create new address in it.

[live627]

You need to backup it before you put money into it. And then backup it when you create new address in it.

You don't trust your wallet? Are you in an internet cafe?

[btrash]

i'm surprised the client itself doesn't ask you to backup your wallet when it first runs.

It stupid how they oversimplified to a point where the product is IMO defective (how many new computer semi literate people can be bothered to unhide their files and backup that wallet?)

Its like microsoft removing the file extensions of known file types...

[DeathAndTaxes]

i'm surprised the client itself doesn't ask you to backup your wallet when it first runs.

It stupid how they oversimplified to a point where the product is IMO defective (how many new computer semi literate people can be bothered to unhide their files and backup that wallet?)

Its like microsoft removing the file extensions of known file types...

You do realize the satoshi client is considered beta right?  The developers have expressed that security, and improved performance are their goals at this point.  Of course if you feel security and improved performance are silly near term goals you are free to fork it and develop a client which is user friendly.

Alternatively wait 10 years and the popular clients will all be polished and user friendly.

[billotronic]

maybe a nice plugin system in the basic client? hell, make the client do backups for you.

[kjj]

There is an RPC call that can do it, and I'm pretty sure the GUI has a button for it.

[meebs]

What is the relationship between a "regular" wallet and a "backup" file of the wallet?

for example.. I backup a wallet on 8/31 with 1btc in it. On 9/1 I receive 10btc (same addresses as the original wallet had) and on 9/5 the original file is lost but the backup is ok.

Would I still have the 11btc, or would I need to backup again after receiving that 10btc for it to be safe?

[kjj]

What is the relationship between a "regular" wallet and a "backup" file of the wallet?

for example.. I backup a wallet on 8/31 with 1btc in it. On 9/1 I receive 10btc (same addresses as the original wallet had) and on 9/5 the original file is lost but the backup is ok.

Would I still have the 11btc, or would I need to backup again after receiving that 10btc for it to be safe?

Depends.

If the 10 BTC is received to a key that was already in the wallet at the time it was backed up, you'd still have it.  If not, it would be lost forever.

[DeathAndTaxes]

What is the relationship between a "regular" wallet and a "backup" file of the wallet?

for example.. I backup a wallet on 8/31 with 1btc in it. On 9/1 I receive 10btc (same addresses as the original wallet had) and on 9/5 the original file is lost but the backup is ok.

Would I still have the 11btc, or would I need to backup again after receiving that 10btc for it to be safe?

There is no difference.  The backup is a copy of the wallet.dat

In your example no second backup is necessary.  The satoshi client wallet file uses a concept of a "keypool".  By default the wallet keypool is 100 private keys.  So a backup contains all the used keys PLUS the next 100 keys.

Receiving coins to an existing address uses no keys.
Sending coins uses 1 new address/key for each send (change address).
Getting a new address from the wallet uses 1 new address/key (clicking new address button).

If your keypool is 100 then you are good for the next 100 new addresses/keys.  The tx involving the 101st address/key will be lost forever.

You can make the keypool as large as you want although anything over 1,000 addresses can take a while to generate.  IMHO the default keypool should likely be increased to 300 or 500.

[meebs]

What is the relationship between a "regular" wallet and a "backup" file of the wallet?

for example.. I backup a wallet on 8/31 with 1btc in it. On 9/1 I receive 10btc (same addresses as the original wallet had) and on 9/5 the original file is lost but the backup is ok.

Would I still have the 11btc, or would I need to backup again after receiving that 10btc for it to be safe?

There is no difference.  The backup is a copy of the wallet.dat

In your example no second backup is necessary.  The satoshi client wallet file uses a concept of a "keypool".  By default the wallet keypool is 100 private keys.  So a backup contains all the used keys PLUS the next 100 keys.

Receiving coins to an existing address uses no keys.
Sending coins uses 1 new address/key for each send (change address).
Getting a new address from the wallet uses 1 new address/key (clicking new address button).

If your keypool is 100 then you are good for the next 100 new addresses/keys.  The tx involving the 101st address/key will be lost forever.

You can make the keypool as large as you want although anything over 1,000 addresses can take a while to generate.  IMHO the default keypool should likely be increased to 300 or 500.

Thanks for the great explanation!

[mendoza]

...

There is no difference.  The backup is a copy of the wallet.dat

In your example no second backup is necessary.  The satoshi client wallet file uses a concept of a "keypool".  By default the wallet keypool is 100 private keys.  So a backup contains all the used keys PLUS the next 100 keys.

Receiving coins to an existing address uses no keys.
Sending coins uses 1 new address/key for each send (change address).
Getting a new address from the wallet uses 1 new address/key (clicking new address button).

If your keypool is 100 then you are good for the next 100 new addresses/keys.  The tx involving the 101st address/key will be lost forever.

You can make the keypool as large as you want although anything over 1,000 addresses can take a while to generate.  IMHO the default keypool should likely be increased to 300 or 500.

So, sending coins burns keys always? or only when sending to different addresses??

[ricklandman]

Nice thread, great for the learning process of this newbie

So, sending coins burns keys always? or only when sending to different addresses??

I can't answer theoretical, but I did some wild transfer testing between different wallets. Sometimes it was send with new addresses and sometimes it was send with the same address the bitcoins arrived at in the first place. It is very difficult to follow what happens in the client, because you (at least I am) not able to see the addresses which are used in the client for sending. I needed to use blockchain.info to figure out which sending adresses happened to be mine.

During the testing (12h ago) I created a wallet (I call it the mystery wallet) with one address (I call it the mystery address) and send some btc's to it (I call it the mystery transaction). The whole blockchain is already downloaded, but no coins  did arrive. If I look in blockchain.info the mystery transaction is plain visible as I made it. I send another testcoin which promptly arrives in the mystery adress in my mystery wallet. Can anybody shine some light on this mystery ?

[ildubbioso]

when do we know that we have ran out of keys?

[Akka]

So if I backup my wallet everytime I revived BTC to a new andress I'm good?

[molecular]

You need to backup it before you put money into it. And then backup it when you create new address in it.

addresses are pre-generated (default 100?)