I let my last credit/debit card expire this month

[futureofbitcoin]

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

[countryfree]

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

Because banks and credit cards are also a huge pain, and the banking system will be quick to remind you about it if you do something they don't like.

Regarding boats, I see 2 problems with them.

The first is that unless you're in the Southern hemisphere, in Europe or Florida, you'll have to pay at any port to get in.
Then boats don't last as well as houses, and their maintenance can get really expensive.

I'll stick to land, but that doesn't mean to a fixed place. Freedom is in traveling.

[gargantuar]

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

You have a single pathetic point but you are the person that stayed in Europe centuries ago or the person that stayed on the East coast of The newly formed USA.  See you later, whateveryournameis.  Keep moving, Elwar.  You are my hero.

[futureofbitcoin]

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

You have a single pathetic point but you are the person that stayed in Europe centuries ago or the person that stayed on the East coast of The newly formed USA.  See you later, whateveryournameis.  Keep moving, Elwar.  You are my hero.

Great job with the uncreative insults. If you believe in what the OP is doing, why not do it yourself?

There's nothing wrong with staying in Europe, and in fact, Northern Europe is a much better place than the USA. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with the East coast; as logically flawed as your point was, you still choose a rather pathetic example.

See, with moving to the New World, or the West Coast, or becoming an Early adopter of bitcoin, there are huge potential benefits. People made millions of dollars. Billions of dollars, even. For the efforts and risks they took, they created a lot of value in the world, and they reaped the benefits of that themselves as well.


But what about what the OP is doing? How will that help society? How will that help himself? It won't. All it does is limit his own choices. There is no potential upside. A person who chooses to live without fiat a year earlier than everyone else won't benefit him (or anyone else) in any way; it's completely different than being a first mover in the New World or whatever.

[Elwar]

Having a bank account is convenient...for the government to track every transaction that I make. For the banks to control who can and cannot have access to that "convenience". They are a third party holding my funds. If you don't own the private keys, the money is not yours.

I have found Bitcoin to be so much more convenient than my bank account. I must have had at least 3 different e-mails telling me on the 1st of the month that my card on file had expired. Companies that could withdraw funds from my account. My friend at work just had over $800 taken out of his bank account this week for his phone bill that was linked to his account. He was having trouble with his phone plan so he switched to a different one on the site. He did not realize that the new plan charged 40 cents per kB of data while all of the plans he used before had data included. I've had so many automatic fees taken out of my bank account that I've had to dispute. One that charged me $50 per month for over a year that I could not get the right number or department to turn it off, finally going to the bank to get them to block it.

With Bitcoin I control my money. My hosting service charges me monthly in bitcoins. If I want to stop my service I stop the payments. If I stay at a hotel and they want to tack on some fees after I've left...they cannot, I paid with bitcoins. I don't have to worry about insufficient fund fees kicking in because of a bad ordering of payments which then snowball for a bunch of tiny purchases. I don't have to pay yearly credit card fees or interest payments ever again.

I can get paid in bitcoins from my US company and sell those bitcoins for a profit in euros to spend instead of paying for a wire transfer and currency exchange fee plus ATM fees to get the money from my paycheck.

That is convenience.

[fryarminer]

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

Example A. True story. I travel to a different state. I go to make a purchase. The card doesn't work. I call the number on the back of the card. I then have a total stranger on the phone tell me where when and what I purchased for the past week. I can't even remember all that. Now why do I want total strangers to be stalking me 24/7, knowing all my purchases, where and when? Imagine how much total strangers know about me! They know where I like to eat, what I like to eat. What I like to wear. What my tastes in movies and music is. Whether I am an introvert or whether I am an extrovert. The list goes on and on. They could probably have a sketch artist draw a picture of me and they could probably be very accurate.

And that doesn't even touch any of the other reasons - for paying interest, credit reports, reporting and flags etc.

I hate credit cards. I really hate credit cards. I will be following the lead of Elwar as soon as I can!

[fryarminer]

Having a bank account is convenient...for the government to track every transaction that I make. For the banks to control who can and cannot have access to that "convenience". They are a third party holding my funds. If you don't own the private keys, the money is not yours.

I have found Bitcoin to be so much more convenient than my bank account. I must have had at least 3 different e-mails telling me on the 1st of the month that my card on file had expired. Companies that could withdraw funds from my account. My friend at work just had over $800 taken out of his bank account this week for his phone bill that was linked to his account. He was having trouble with his phone plan so he switched to a different one on the site. He did not realize that the new plan charged 40 cents per kB of data while all of the plans he used before had data included. I've had so many automatic fees taken out of my bank account that I've had to dispute. One that charged me $50 per month for over a year that I could not get the right number or department to turn it off, finally going to the bank to get them to block it.

With Bitcoin I control my money. My hosting service charges me monthly in bitcoins. If I want to stop my service I stop the payments. If I stay at a hotel and they want to tack on some fees after I've left...they cannot, I paid with bitcoins. I don't have to worry about insufficient fund fees kicking in because of a bad ordering of payments which then snowball for a bunch of tiny purchases. I don't have to pay yearly credit card fees or interest payments ever again.

I can get paid in bitcoins from my US company and sell those bitcoins for a profit in euros to spend instead of paying for a wire transfer and currency exchange fee plus ATM fees to get the money from my paycheck.

That is convenience.

Absolutely. This.

[gargantuar]

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

You have a single pathetic point but you are the person that stayed in Europe centuries ago or the person that stayed on the East coast of The newly formed USA.  See you later, whateveryournameis.  Keep moving, Elwar.  You are my hero.

Great job with the uncreative insults. If you believe in what the OP is doing, why not do it yourself?

There's nothing wrong with staying in Europe, and in fact, Northern Europe is a much better place than the USA. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with the East coast; as logically flawed as your point was, you still choose a rather pathetic example.

See, with moving to the New World, or the West Coast, or becoming an Early adopter of bitcoin, there are huge potential benefits. People made millions of dollars. Billions of dollars, even. For the efforts and risks they took, they created a lot of value in the world, and they reaped the benefits of that themselves as well.


But what about what the OP is doing? How will that help society? How will that help himself? It won't. All it does is limit his own choices. There is no potential upside. A person who chooses to live without fiat a year earlier than everyone else won't benefit him (or anyone else) in any way; it's completely different than being a first mover in the New World or whatever.

Everyone talks about being a survivor.  What is the point?  We don't need any more survivors.  We need more dreamers and explorers.  Imagine (or look up) what people like you said about the ones who got on boats pointed at the New World?  People who do not seek their dreams will likely end up as sludge that doesn't go down the drain; You, I suppose.

Also, I have mined since 2010.  I am an early adopter.  I operate full nodes and run over a terrahash to heat my 6200 sq ft house.  What makes you think I am not on the same path as Elwar in regards to going fully bitcoin?  It is why I asked him about the rental stuff because I own a bit of real estate and some businesses.  You put the ass in assumptions.

TL;DR:  this person (Elwar) is a pioneer and a hero.  We should cheer for him.  If he is not a hero, what is a hero to you?  Some cowardly schmuck that stays indoors and plays video games and occasionally looks out his window?

[pereira4]

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

I think he wants to stay out of the system 100% to achieve a tax free life. So far is he is doing great, since the first step is getting paid of BTC and buying with BTC, without interaction with fiat whatsoever.

[neurotypical]

This sounds very exciting. Keep us updated on how things roll. Im willing to try something like this in the future, when (hopefully) my BTC stack is enough (10+ years?).

[goosoodude]

I'm currently paid 100% in Bitcoin through bitwage.co.  I pay for as much as I can using bitcoins.

I think you are relying too heavily on bitwage.co. Most employers need a certain amount of notice in order to change where your direct deposit payment is sent to, so if/when bitwage.co runs into problems and/or turns into the next gox, you could potentially have two, or maybe even three pay periods worth of money sent to them depending on how quickly you can see they are having problems.

I think it is good to use/spend your bitcoin as much as you can, however I don't think it is smart to entrust a third party with so much of your money as you are doing.

I actively sell bitcoins on localbitcoins so I usually have plenty of cash for buying food and paying rent.

Our of curiosity, when you sell on LBC, are you able to get above market rates, or do you need to lose some amount to liquidity providers?

[Ruthful]

I think he wants to stay out of the system 100% to achieve a tax free life. So far is he is doing great, since the first step is getting paid of BTC and buying with BTC, without interaction with fiat whatsoever.

I don't think that is why he did it.After all he still need to pay tax unless he's living in a country( or a citizen of a country) that have zero tax.

[goosoodude]

I think he wants to stay out of the system 100% to achieve a tax free life. So far is he is doing great, since the first step is getting paid of BTC and buying with BTC, without interaction with fiat whatsoever.

I don't think that is why he did it.After all he still need to pay tax unless he's living in a country( or a citizen of a country) that have zero tax.

A lot of what he is doing is going to allow him to avoid the reporting requirements that would make it easy for a taxing authority to know how much income the OP has.

While I do think it would be a bad idea, it would be possible for the OP to hide a good amount of his trading income, especially if he properly maintains his privacy

[Ruthful]

While I do think it would be a bad idea, it would be possible for the OP to hide a good amount of his trading income, especially if he properly maintains his privacy

Trying to use bitcoin to break the law is a bad idea in general for lots of reason.I surely hope that isn't what the OP had in mind.

[goosoodude]

While I do think it would be a bad idea, it would be possible for the OP to hide a good amount of his trading income, especially if he properly maintains his privacy

Trying to use bitcoin to break the law is a bad idea in general for lots of reason.I surely hope that isn't what the OP had in mind.

I don't think it is. My impression is that he is trying to avoid using government fiat as much as possible, however there are not enough businesses that accept bitcoin for this to be a viable option yet. I think a better approach would be a greater push to get more merchants to accept bitcoin so they can see it's cost advantages

[QuestionAuthority]

Ok,
maybe I say this now since I don't need to buy a house, I don't need a car and so on.
It's true what you say dear QA but, anyway, as Elwar also said being debt-free gives you a kind of freedom that otherwise you can't have.

Simple example:
I still use a Samsung Galaxy Nexus bought in 2012: I did not want any contract, anything. I could have had any phone I wanted but I simply love that one and I bought a new battery on Amazon for 12$ which works just fine!

Of course, you could say, that's a small scale example but... I feel definitely better than my friend with an Iphone who's still paying a lot of money for a 30-months contract.
One can get into the loop then: today Iphone 6, next year Iphone 7 or whatever always with one contract.
Then one day it'll be the car, then the house and so forth.

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I say that, if I can, I say no.
 

Nice discussion

The concept of loans isn't evil. The institutions loaning the money are. If you borrow $40k from your parents to attend college and promise to repay the loan over 10 years they won't destroy your financial future if you miss a few payments. Banks will chase you to the ends of the earth, destroy your credit rating, garnish your wages and attach a property lien on your possessions to get paid. Because that process is so destructive you'd be lucky if you could rent an apartment when it's over. I hate the process of commercial loans and lending. I just haven't seen a decent alternative yet.

[chmod755]

OP is trying to use Bitcoin as much as possible - which is a good thing, but the way he is doing that is bad IMO. I'd suggest keeping the cards and accounts and getting paid in your national currency - buying BTC with your card when you need them instead of getting paid in BTC and cashing out on LocalBitcoins or getting only a part of your income in BTC if that's possible.

[fryarminer]

While I do think it would be a bad idea, it would be possible for the OP to hide a good amount of his trading income, especially if he properly maintains his privacy

Trying to use bitcoin to break the law is a bad idea in general for lots of reason.I surely hope that isn't what the OP had in mind.

I don't think it's possible to avoid taxes using bitwage. They report from what I believe, and so does your employer, as usual. This has little if anything to do with taxes.

[Ruthful]

I don't think it's possible to avoid taxes using bitwage. They report from what I believe, and so does your employer, as usual. This has little if anything to do with taxes.

I guess you're right.

This entire line of conversion was started by this post 

I think he wants to stay out of the system 100% to achieve a tax free life. So far is he is doing great, since the first step is getting paid of BTC and buying with BTC, without interaction with fiat whatsoever.

which is pretty much seems out of the blue for me.

[acquafredda]

Ok,
maybe I say this now since I don't need to buy a house, I don't need a car and so on.
It's true what you say dear QA but, anyway, as Elwar also said being debt-free gives you a kind of freedom that otherwise you can't have.

Simple example:
I still use a Samsung Galaxy Nexus bought in 2012: I did not want any contract, anything. I could have had any phone I wanted but I simply love that one and I bought a new battery on Amazon for 12$ which works just fine!

Of course, you could say, that's a small scale example but... I feel definitely better than my friend with an Iphone who's still paying a lot of money for a 30-months contract.
One can get into the loop then: today Iphone 6, next year Iphone 7 or whatever always with one contract.
Then one day it'll be the car, then the house and so forth.

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I say that, if I can, I say no.
 

Nice discussion

The concept of loans isn't evil. The institutions loaning the money are. If you borrow $40k from your parents to attend college and promise to repay the loan over 10 years they won't destroy your financial future if you miss a few payments. Banks will chase you to the ends of the earth, destroy your credit rating, garnish your wages and attach a property lien on your possessions to get paid. Because that process is so destructive you'd be lucky if you could rent an apartment when it's over. I hate the process of commercial loans and lending. I just haven't seen a decent alternative yet.

Yes QA. I also said it is neither good nor bad. I understand what you mean. But as you specified one thing is to borrow money from a "trusted" source i.e. your parents, another thing is to go to a leech of whatever kind (banks & co.).

If you pass me this I could say that maybe this whole thing of building up credit, avoid overdrafts, use credit cards instead of money one might already have, this whole mechanism is evil. This is the problem.
We should be aware that everything start from our choice. Please don't answer "I have no choice". But go back to the roots of those choices and see if you could have done it differently.

these are my 2 cents