Please discuss. Is the future of crypto in POW?

[tokeweed]

If there was a POW phase in a POS coin, then yeah.  The whole point is avoiding an IPO/ICO/Presale where FINCEN can then knock on your door because of it.

[fox19891989]

POW OR POS is the future, op you forget pos coin, or pos/pow hybrid coin like ppc.

Ico, ipo, presale is illegal in US, they(those coin devs) will be put into jail in the future. SEC hates them, including crowedfunding.

[jonald_fyookball]

POW OR POS is the future, op you forget pos coin, or pos/pow hybrid coin like ppc.

Ico, ipo, presale is illegal in US, they(those coin devs) will be put into jail in the future. SEC hates them, including crowedfunding.

if you're going to do a PoS coin then you would need proof of burn or else you'd be in the same situation
as someone selling securities, basically.

[manfred]

Nothing beyond where an actual work has to be done to earn value will ever be fair

POW is the only way

Proof of Work done in a fair way was always going to be the future.
Selling thin air has no future.

[Flyskyhigh]

Everything can be falsified. IPO, premine, instamine. The fact is there is very little fairness at all; even PoW is not fair anymore...as there are basically leveraged buyouts of all forms of mining farms...monopolies on mining, allow even "fair" PoW released coins are totally lopsided.

Just accept the fact that every coin is a scam.

So take your pick.


Nothing is fair. I just get behind coins that I like, that I feel have good people behind them...if you get a feel for the type of people in a coin's community, you can tell if they are pure or wicked scammers. That's about it.

[R2D221]

Just accept the fact that every coin is a scam.

Fiat is a scam, cryptocoins are a scam, so what's next? Ditching money altogether?

[newcripto]

The future of crypto is in both Pow and Pos.Pos is must thing to attract the investors and to convince them to hold their investments/coins for long term.Pos can bring them nice profit on permanent basis instead of selling their assets once and finish.

[jonald_fyookball]

I wonder if people will finally ever understand that PoS is never a replacement for PoW. At best it can make attacks on PoW a bit harder, maybe.

Worst thing is Vitalik has somehow convinced himself it will work, as long as you "reject long forks". Uh-huh. The arguments in favor of it want me to pull my hair out.

I don't think he did convince himself.  Didn't ethereum end up with PoW?

[inBitweTrust]

I wonder if people will finally ever understand that PoS is never a replacement for PoW. At best it can make attacks on PoW a bit harder, maybe.

Worst thing is Vitalik has somehow convinced himself it will work, as long as you "reject long forks". Uh-huh. The arguments in favor of it want me to pull my hair out.

I don't think he did convince himself.  Didn't ethereum end up with PoW?

Yes, but only as a short term measure(ASIC resistant Dagger Hashimoto PoW) with few tricks to force over to some variation of TaPoS in the near future.

[WhatTheGox]

Just accept the fact that every coin is a scam.

Fiat is a scam, cryptocoins are a scam, so what's next? Ditching money altogether?

Yeah that could happen in a 100 years or so or perhaps a type of smarter money which can auto trade most of your wants/needs inline within your means.  Maybe bitcoin who knows.

[tvbcof]

My thesis:

POW is fairly safe and relatively efficient in an adversarial environment where an attacker _could_ muster a large majority of work _if_ there is a plausible fall-back to consensus (or some other related construct.)  This thesis is based on the conjuncture that an attacker would not expend the effort to gain a POW advantage in the first place if his efforts may well be for naught.

A related thesis:

From my first involvement in Bitcoin I took interest in the concept that Bitcoin's strength is exactly that it CAN AND WOULD FAIL under a successful attack (and likely be replace by something even worse.)  A fork with an appropriate fix is fairly trivial technically.  This 'feature' makes for a very thorny adversary in Bitcoin.  I anticipated that a competent attacker would be fully aware of this and thus I would look for threats to be very labyrinthine.  It is this which makes me wary of the simplistic scaling push, IBLT developments, etc.

[johnyj]

POS is a dead end, because of the non-monopole nature of cryptocurrency, people will pay nothing for a coin that cost nothing to make

For POW coins, it seems there is only one issue in the current design: The reward changing is too dramatic and too far away

Once every four year, the daily coin generation will be cut by half, this will make one huge bubble every 4 years, which makes the currency value forever unstable. Imagine that the reward reduces every year by 10% , it would still achieve the same result but much smoother

[celestio]

POS is a dead end, because of the non-monopole nature of cryptocurrency, people will pay nothing for a coin that cost nothing to make

For POW coins, it seems there is only one issue in the current design: The reward changing is too dramatic and too far away

Once every four year, the daily coin generation will be cut by half, this will make one huge bubble every 4 years, which makes the currency value forever unstable. Imagine that the reward reduces every year by 10% , it would still achieve the same result but much smoother

With cryptonote coins there is no dramatic reward change. It smoothly goes down automatically.

[Amph]

POS is a dead end, because of the non-monopole nature of cryptocurrency, people will pay nothing for a coin that cost nothing to make

For POW coins, it seems there is only one issue in the current design: The reward changing is too dramatic and too far away

Once every four year, the daily coin generation will be cut by half, this will make one huge bubble every 4 years, which makes the currency value forever unstable. Imagine that the reward reduces every year by 10% , it would still achieve the same result but much smoother

i think there is a good reason behind that 4 years period, satoshi wanted to give enough time to the miners, so the technology can advance, if the block reward was changed to something like every year(even by a small amount), the small miners would be taken out of the game earlys and the big one would also have stumbled in profit problems

[shulio]

POS is a dead end, because of the non-monopole nature of cryptocurrency, people will pay nothing for a coin that cost nothing to make

For POW coins, it seems there is only one issue in the current design: The reward changing is too dramatic and too far away

Once every four year, the daily coin generation will be cut by half, this will make one huge bubble every 4 years, which makes the currency value forever unstable. Imagine that the reward reduces every year by 10% , it would still achieve the same result but much smoother

i think there is a good reason behind that 4 years period, satoshi wanted to give enough time to the miners, so the technology can advance, if the block reward was changed to something like every year(even by a small amount), the small miners would be taken out of the game earlys and the big one would also have stumbled in profit problems

Unfortunately, the fours year period doesnt do any good because the difficulty is keep on rising each day. Even now, the small miners has been out of the game because they cant compete with the big farm which has better electricity cost. Cutting the block reward into smaller each year could get a better result as it will slow down the distribution

[Amph]

POS is a dead end, because of the non-monopole nature of cryptocurrency, people will pay nothing for a coin that cost nothing to make

For POW coins, it seems there is only one issue in the current design: The reward changing is too dramatic and too far away

Once every four year, the daily coin generation will be cut by half, this will make one huge bubble every 4 years, which makes the currency value forever unstable. Imagine that the reward reduces every year by 10% , it would still achieve the same result but much smoother

i think there is a good reason behind that 4 years period, satoshi wanted to give enough time to the miners, so the technology can advance, if the block reward was changed to something like every year(even by a small amount), the small miners would be taken out of the game earlys and the big one would also have stumbled in profit problems

Unfortunately, the fours year period doesnt do any good because the difficulty is keep on rising each day. Even now, the small miners has been out of the game because they cant compete with the big farm which has better electricity cost. Cutting the block reward into smaller each year could get a better result as it will slow down the distribution

yeah but, with let's say an halving every year, it would have been even worse for casual miners, because of the smaller profit + the continued increase in difficulty, which is not really true, right now the diff is not increasing too much for exampele..., this is what i mean

[shulio]

POS is a dead end, because of the non-monopole nature of cryptocurrency, people will pay nothing for a coin that cost nothing to make

For POW coins, it seems there is only one issue in the current design: The reward changing is too dramatic and too far away

Once every four year, the daily coin generation will be cut by half, this will make one huge bubble every 4 years, which makes the currency value forever unstable. Imagine that the reward reduces every year by 10% , it would still achieve the same result but much smoother

i think there is a good reason behind that 4 years period, satoshi wanted to give enough time to the miners, so the technology can advance, if the block reward was changed to something like every year(even by a small amount), the small miners would be taken out of the game earlys and the big one would also have stumbled in profit problems

Unfortunately, the fours year period doesnt do any good because the difficulty is keep on rising each day. Even now, the small miners has been out of the game because they cant compete with the big farm which has better electricity cost. Cutting the block reward into smaller each year could get a better result as it will slow down the distribution

yeah but, with let's say an halving every year, it would have been even worse for casual miners, because of the smaller profit + the continued increase in difficulty, which is not really true, right now the diff is not increase too much for exampele..., this is what i mean

The halving purpose could be to slow down the distribution, which mean if there is less bitcoin in the market then the price could go higher but there is no guarantee about this things . Anyway we can only rely on the ASIC manufacturer and hope that they could get a better miner will less power consumption

[Soros Shorts]

POS is a dead end, because of the non-monopole nature of cryptocurrency, people will pay nothing for a coin that cost nothing to make

Exactly. The concept of letting the largest stakeholders make the most money (without doing any significant work) is pretty close to how the central banks of the world currently operate. Do people really want that from a cryptocurrency?

[Troonetpt]

POS is a dead end, because of the non-monopole nature of cryptocurrency, people will pay nothing for a coin that cost nothing to make

Exactly. The concept of letting the largest stakeholders make the most money (without doing any significant work) is pretty close to how the central banks of the world currently operate. Do people really want that from a cryptocurrency?

As a coin, pos may dead, but as a platform , they may live, Some pos coin as nxt is not just a coin , but a platform, they can provide lots of feature which bitcoin can't provide.

[celestio]

POS is a dead end, because of the non-monopole nature of cryptocurrency, people will pay nothing for a coin that cost nothing to make

Exactly. The concept of letting the largest stakeholders make the most money (without doing any significant work) is pretty close to how the central banks of the world currently operate. Do people really want that from a cryptocurrency?

That's true and that's one of the main reasons I'm against using PoS in a cryptocurrency.