Self learning QBASIC, TurboPasccal and C - is it possible?

[MysteryMiner]

First of all - I'm back to this forum after a long time away from anything bitcoin and computer related. I was fighting in eastern Ukraine for major part of last year. Now my way of warrior is finished because of various reasons. I'm fine, at least physically not a single scratch. Bulletproof jacked and SPG armor was up to task.

I'm thinking about becoming a true computer programmer. I think about giving up as a computer technician and systems administrator. The payment is so low that for full-time job 8 hours a day I will receive less than 400 euros in month. Working as a freelance also is crap. I will become a homeless bum in no time.

Today I tried to apply in college but I was rejected for being too old. It is sad because they have the best learning plan IMHO to become a programming halfgenius. They start with QBASIC to learn the basics, then proceed to more advanced learning language TurboPascal and then much time is devoted to in-depth learning of C language. They finish with basics of Java and programming SQL databases.

Is it possible to become a good programmer by studying these languages by myself? I learned computer repairs and system administration in 2 years by myself. Actually the learning is still ongoing process, but I mean learning enough to start working as freelance computer repairman. Later on I also learned how to become hacker. For some time already hackers need more sysadmin and networking skills than developer or reverse engineering ones IMHO.

So how much I need to know about mathematics? I was a prodigy kid back in school in math but I was very slow in solving the algebra and even slower when doing it in my head. It was compensated by being very careful and not making mistakes. Do I really need a teacher on programming or I can find all answers by myself?

The online tutorials that recommend high-level languages as first languages like Python, VisualBasic or Java don't appeal to me. I already know what crap executables they produce and how they alienate from true workings of computer CPU.

[Foxpup]

Is this a troll post? You reject "high-level languages as first languages like Python, VisualBasic or Java" but want to start with QBASIC and TurboPascal, which are even higher-level and exponentially crappier? And you think that's "the best learning plan"? I mean, TurboPascal's not too bad, but QBASIC will rot your brain and corrupt your mind. You'll have to unlearn everything you learnt about it before you can learn anything else, so why bother? If you really want to learn to get close to the CPU, just grab a copy of The C Programming Language by Brain Kernigham and Dennis Ritchie and get cracking. It has a decent tutorial, not that I normally recommend starting with C instead of Python, Java, or even C++, but whatever.

As for mathematics, what you learnt in school isn't mathematics for the most part, it's computation, a relic from a simpler time when people actually needed to do that. Nowadays, we have machines to do computation for us. For programming, it's helpful to be able to do things like multiplying by powers of two in your head, but if not, you can always use a calculator. As far as real mathematics are concerned, you need to know simple arithmetic and algebra for starters. Anything involving graphics will involve plane geometry and possibly trigonometry. For 3D graphics, solid geometry, matrix and quaternion arithmetic. Again, you don't really need to know how to do perform these calculations (that's the computer's job), just how to apply them to the problem at hand.

[Vod]

Today I tried to apply in college but I was rejected for being too old.

WHAT?  How old are you and what country do you live in?

I'm turning 45 this autumn and I still can get into any university or college that I want to in Canada.

Let me tell you MM, learning as you get older is very difficult.  I had to give up my goal of becoming a computer programmer because I couldn't absorb the material well enough.  (I also took a leave from this forum to do so!)  I lost interest and moved onto something else.

But it's not impossible.  You may need to re-read the same thing a dozen times because your mind was wandering the first ten (lol) but trust me - with enough dedication you can learn what you want.

QBASIC will rot your brain and corrupt your mind. You'll have to unlearn everything you learnt about it before you can learn anything else, so why bother?

This is true.  Don't learn BASIC.

I also don't recommend those old languages. Try a modern one like C#, if you are a Microsoft guy (or PHP if you aren't).  There are job openings all over for such C# programmers - starting wage is $30 and with five years experience you can make $70-$90 (Canada/US dollar figures).  And there are remote jobs available!

Here is a great book that will get you started.  Good luck my (old) friend!  

http://ca.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118385365.html

[Vod]

They finish with basics of Java and programming SQL databases.

SQL databases are different.  There are two lines of work you can get into - administration or programming.

Administration is simply keeping the databases healthy and available.

Programming is much like computer programming but much easier - there are only so many things you can do in a "stored procedure" so you don't have to learn so many functions.

Both are also jobs you can do remotely, although sometimes they throw in the duties of server maintenance with the SQL Administration so you need to be able to actually walk to the servers in case something goes wrong.

I can't recommend an actual book for you, but if this (and Microsoft) interests you, search Google for SQL SERVER 2014.

[MaxDZ8]

Congratulations for your accomplishments so far! You sure have the willpower to make it at this point.

I have a rough/very rough knowledge of those languages you mention and you could indeed do that... but I'd suggest against it.
Since you are focused on making a living out of it you should probably take this the other way around.

Look at companies around you and look at what you feel like doing. Pay is a thing but motivation is another and you won't get far without the latter and as a learner, motivation will improve your absorption rate a lot.

Job availability is a real problem, especially if you are already budget constrained. To that regard, it's probably easier to get one out of Javascript rather than C. If you are already proficient in web administration you could exploit some synergy between the things.

SQL is basically the only thing required around here. Or so they think.

[MysteryMiner]

Is this a troll post? You reject "high-level languages as first languages like Python, VisualBasic or Java" but want to start with QBASIC and TurboPascal, which are even higher-level and exponentially crappier?

This is not a troll post but serious as it can be. I think QBASIC is a good starter language with not so complex syntax and it is positioned as starter/educational one. Yes I understand QBASIC is interpreted language.

If you really want to learn to get close to the CPU, just grab a copy of The C Programming Language by Brain Kernigham and Dennis Ritchie and get cracking.

I understand the inline ASM comes into play when programming in Pascal. Probably reading book on C in foreign language is not a good idea because even words describing concepts will be completely alien.

As for mathematics, what you learnt in school isn't mathematics for the most part, it's computation, a relic from a simpler time when people actually needed to do that. Nowadays, we have machines to do computation for us. For programming, it's helpful to be able to do things like multiplying by powers of two in your head, but if not, you can always use a calculator. As far as real mathematics are concerned, you need to know simple arithmetic and algebra for starters.

Thanks, exactly what I wanted to hear. I was good at algebra but lagged in multiply and dividing large numbers in head. Calculators were banned in classroom 15 years ago so everything must be done with pencil and paper. For last 15 or so years only thing I needed to calculate in head are computer hardware frequencies when overclocking or planning character statistics for RPG games.

WHAT? Huh  How old are you and what country do you live in?

29 years old, Latvia. College is for 15 to 25 year olds Only official option for me is to apply to university and go into academic programming or system administration.

Let me tell you MM, learning as you get older is very difficult.

This is what I'm afraid of. Probably most damaging to my intellect is not aging but not using my brain. For a good time I basically did not use my brain while spending my time preparing potatoes and waiting for supersonic cruise missile to hit me. Everything in my computer was slow crap and it was topped by slow 2G GPRS that was shared with several other people. It really killed my natural curiosity to explore digital realms because I knew that starting opening new program could slow everything down to unusable state.

SQL databases are different.  There are two lines of work you can get into - administration or programming.

In last year they are learning to create SQL-like database engine from scratch.

Look at companies around you and look at what you feel like doing. Pay is a thing but motivation is another and you won't get far without the latter and as a learner, motivation will improve your absorption rate a lot.

They are creating mobile apps for cellphones. Some are building dynamic webpages. These are two things I'm not only uninterested but they also are repulsive to me. I don't like cellphones because they are built from ground up to act as anti-privacy devices and I really suck at web design, drawing and other required side skills needed to make a "modern" webpage.

SQL queries are not problem to me because I have a rudimentary knowledge of PHP and SQL. Just barely enough to manipulate things I needed.

[MaxDZ8]

Look at companies around you and look at what you feel like doing. Pay is a thing but motivation is another and you won't get far without the latter and as a learner, motivation will improve your absorption rate a lot.

They are creating mobile apps for cellphones. Some are building dynamic webpages. These are two things I'm not only uninterested but they also are repulsive to me. I don't like cellphones because they are built from ground up to act as anti-privacy devices and I really suck at web design, drawing and other required side skills needed to make a "modern" webpage.

SQL queries are not problem to me because I have a rudimentary knowledge of PHP and SQL. Just barely enough to manipulate things I needed.

Then, let me tell you: you're up for a bumpy ride.
If you think Javascript is just web pages you'll have to reconsider sooner or later. Modern browsers (firefox especially) are a fairly decent application platform with many advantages.

Nonetheless, I agree you cannot do that if you don't have any motivation.