Just started with BitCoins and I have a BIG problem with it!!

[JAMy]

First of all i have to make compliments to the idea of BitCoin which is -in general- a good thing, BUT(!) i came to the conclusion that one person, even when his pc is 24/7 is on, can hardly generate some bitcoins for himself. This is the first problem i have with it. So you have to make use of a "botnet" if you *really* want to get sth. out of it at the end.

But the bigger problem i have with the whole p2p network IS: Doesnt matter if u use a botnet or one single pc to mine it ALWAYS make heavy use of electricity, i mean ios there anywhere an estimate how much electricity is used for ALL pcs mining? this has to be a HEAVY amount especially because the majority of users are using gpu mining! and in times where the whole world starts to rethink about the earth situation its not really good that a network uses so much electricity which could be done in another way. Am i right or what do you ppl think about this?

I mean i am not from Greenpeace or anything like that (lol), but if i am gone for good, my kidz (and their kidz and so on) still hav e to live on this planet (if we are not already on mars at that time... ;-)) and that is why i complain about the whole thing...

Just drop me your thoughts about this, this will be interesting...

PEACE,
            -JAMy! ;-)

[1714795741]

1714795741

[1714795741]

1714795741

[1714795741]

1714795741

[SgtSpike]

You don't need a botnet.  Heck, 1 $150 BFL Jalepeno (http://www.butterflylabs.com/order-form-bitforce-sc-jalapeno/) can mine just as much as a decent-sized botnet with ~5000 computers in it.

Bitcoin wasn't made for people to make money out of thin air anyway.  It was made as an open transaction system free from government regulation and cheap/free to use.  If you want to use Bitcoin for what it was intended for, buy some Bitcoins (don't frustrate yourself with trying to mine them), and start buying stuff with them!

[purplesquid]

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bitcoin_mining_is_a_waste_of_energy_and_harmful_for_ecology

...and Welcome!

[Gabi]

Mining is NOT a get rich quick scheme.

You want bitcoins? You go and buy them. You want to mine them? Well then you need to invest in hardware.

Earth situation? Bitcoin is much much much greener than the traditional banking/money system!

[JAMy]

Earth situation? Bitcoin is much much much greener than the traditional banking/money system!

For the Moment, your are right Gabi, but if Bitcoins would be as long there as our bank system, it would be much much much worse than the existiong bank system because the whooe world would be using it... so you cannot comapre these two things i think! But to be honest, for the moment YOU ARE RIGHT! ;-))

peace.

[Gabi]

I am already comparing it. I mean, if everyone use bitcoin instead of the traditional systems, then it will be much better. Mining is for bitcoin security, yes, it's used to pur bitcoins in circulation too, but it's main purpose is security, and well, security is and will always be expensive

[JAMy]

*agree*

But in my opinion there is also a design "flaw" within the bitcoin system. The maximum amount of BC in the whole system is set to 21 million.

what if - and if it gets more and more popular it will be - lets say 5 billions of ppl are using it or lets say TRY to use it! it just CANNOT work coz every one of them will only get a small small amount of bc. okay it can be that one bitcoin is more worth then but its just too less, i think... its too less nowerdays even, think 5 or 10 years further... i dont think this can work out.

peace.

[gbl08ma]

Bitcoin is indefinitely divisible (this has been repeated too many times, and it should be in the wiki as well).

If you admit the commonly accepted precision is going to be of two decimal points like with most fiat currency nowadays, then you'll have 21000000000000,00 coins. That's 2.1*10^13 coins, or 21 trillion coins.

[casascius]

*agree*

But in my opinion there is also a design "flaw" within the bitcoin system. The maximum amount of BC in the whole system is set to 21 million.

what if - and if it gets more and more popular it will be - lets say 5 billions of ppl are using it or lets say TRY to use it! it just CANNOT work coz every one of them will only get a small small amount of bc. okay it can be that one bitcoin is more worth then but its just too less, i think... its too less nowerdays even, think 5 or 10 years further... i dont think this can work out.

peace.

another link from the same page linked to earlier in the thread

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#21_million_coins_isn.27t_enough.3B_doesn.27t_scale

[abeaulieu]

First of all i have to make compliments to the idea of BitCoin which is -in general- a good thing, BUT(!) i came to the conclusion that one person, even when his pc is 24/7 is on, can hardly generate some bitcoins for himself. This is the first problem i have with it. So you have to make use of a "botnet" if you *really* want to get sth. out of it at the end.

But the bigger problem i have with the whole p2p network IS: Doesnt matter if u use a botnet or one single pc to mine it ALWAYS make heavy use of electricity, i mean ios there anywhere an estimate how much electricity is used for ALL pcs mining? this has to be a HEAVY amount especially because the majority of users are using gpu mining! and in times where the whole world starts to rethink about the earth situation its not really good that a network uses so much electricity which could be done in another way. Am i right or what do you ppl think about this?

I mean i am not from Greenpeace or anything like that (lol), but if i am gone for good, my kidz (and their kidz and so on) still hav e to live on this planet (if we are not already on mars at that time... ;-)) and that is why i complain about the whole thing...

Just drop me your thoughts about this, this will be interesting...

PEACE,
            -JAMy! ;-)

check out electricity usage estimates and total costs. probably not as high as you were thinking compared to the market cap:
http://blockchain.info/stats

[benjamindees]

According to the estimates on blockchain.info, the Bitcoin network currently uses as much electricity as about 5 city blocks in Manhattan.  This isn't particularly accurate, since the estimate is based on GPU mining.  The network is in the process of converting from GPUs to FPGAs and ASICs, which are anywhere from 5-10 times more efficient.  I would guess that the real figure is equivalent to approximately 3 city blocks, which is still a lot higher than the historical average.  And over the next few months this will settle down to the historical average of being approximately equivalent to one Manhattan city block, or about as much as the Bank of America building.  It's important to realize, also, that power usage is not necessarily proportional to the number of users or the number of transactions.  So it doesn't necessarily have to increase.

tl;dr:  The Bitcoin network historically uses about as much energy as the Bank of America building in New York.

[enmaku]

For the Moment, your you are right Gabi, but if Bitcoins would be as long there as lasts as long as our current bank system, it would could be much much much worse than the existiong existing bank system because the whooe whole world would be using it... so you cannot comapre compare these two things. i think! But to be honest, for the moment YOU ARE RIGHT! ;-))

peace.

Sorry, I'm really not trying to be a pedant but if you're going to critique something you should try a) writing words that people can read, b) actually including some support for your claims and c) try to actually be right. Sorry, you're just wrong in every imaginable way and your poor grasp of the English language invites mockery that doesn't help your cause.

[DOH!]

Biting my troll tongue.... ow.

[QuantumKiwi]

First of all i have to make compliments to the idea of BitCoin which is -in general- a good thing, BUT(!) i came to the conclusion that one person, even when his pc is 24/7 is on, can hardly generate some bitcoins for himself. This is the first problem i have with it. So you have to make use of a "botnet" if you *really* want to get sth. out of it at the end.

But the bigger problem i have with the whole p2p network IS: Doesnt matter if u use a botnet or one single pc to mine it ALWAYS make heavy use of electricity, i mean ios there anywhere an estimate how much electricity is used for ALL pcs mining? this has to be a HEAVY amount especially because the majority of users are using gpu mining! and in times where the whole world starts to rethink about the earth situation its not really good that a network uses so much electricity which could be done in another way. Am i right or what do you ppl think about this?

I mean i am not from Greenpeace or anything like that (lol), but if i am gone for good, my kidz (and their kidz and so on) still hav e to live on this planet (if we are not already on mars at that time... ;-)) and that is why i complain about the whole thing...

Just drop me your thoughts about this, this will be interesting...

PEACE,
            -JAMy! ;-)

Really amazing the lack of amount of research done.

Obviously you haven't a clue about computer hardware - Research GPU's and CPU's and the differences between them and how they can help bitcoin.

Also, take a look at custom mining rigs which produce more BTC than $ of power usage...

a lot of people dont care about mining bitcoins, they see it as a waste of time - When you can simply BUY bitcoins and use them to purchase goods anonymously, thats what the currency is about - Not about mining bitcoins, thats just a side project...

Peoples logical sense around here really does amaze me.

[JAMy]

@enmaku: yes, you are right about that. My poor english maybe came from the being-up-all-night-thing and i apologize for that. I am by far no native speaker but in school i always had a "2" or "b" in english and beside from that, i spent one season on Mallorca as an Animator where the language spoken was english as well. so i think i can say i can speak it i just was really tired at that moment and didn´t read my post again (that´s where the mistakes were comin´ from...). whatever!

´Bout that Bitcoin-mining-theme we´re talking on: i am not really sure bout the whole system but you put it in the right light for me again. i  can say i now know that the bitcoin  paying system is all about anonymity, so that users just can pay g00dZ without "showing their faces". and you´re also right about that if a user cannot (or doesn´t want to) mine bitcoins, he still can buy some in a bitcoin shop and use them instead. but as far as i understood the paper from the mysterious (main) programmer of bitcoin (satoshi) it´s also a system to become unique from the system being used now (banking system) but this just doesn´t work because if i doesn´t mine bitcopins i have to pay them with *money* and therefore i am *still* using the old system to get what i want (bs). Or am i wrong?

peace.

[Graet]

@enmaku: yes, you are right about that. My poor english maybe came from the being-up-all-night-thing and i apologize for that. I am by far no native speaker but in school i always had a "2" or "b" in english and beside from that, i spent one season on Mallorca as an Animator where the language spoken was english as well. so i think i can say i can speak it i just was really tired at that moment and didn´t read my post again (that´s where the mistakes were comin´ from...). whatever!

´Bout that Bitcoin-mining-theme we´re talking on: i am not really sure bout the whole system but you put it in the right light for me again. i  can say i now know that the bitcoin  paying system is all about anonymity, so that users just can pay g00dZ without "showing their faces". and you´re also right about that if a user cannot (or doesn´t want to) mine bitcoins, he still can buy some in a bitcoin shop and use them instead. but as far as i understood the paper from the mysterious (main) programmer of bitcoin (satoshi) it´s also a system to become unique from the system being used now (banking system) but this just doesn´t work because if i doesn´t mine bitcopins i have to pay them with *money* and therefore i am *still* using the old system to get what i want (bs). Or am i wrong?

peace.

if you do mine Bitcoins you pay money, unless you are stealing graphics cards and electricity

there are other ways to get Bitcoins, there is a whole developing economy, start something new and worthwhile - profit

[k3t3r]

it´s also a system to become unique from the system being used now (banking system) but this just doesn´t work because if i doesn´t mine bitcopins i have to pay them with *money* and therefore i am *still* using the old system to get what i want (bs). Or am i wrong?

you dont get your ols system fiat money for free (unless your a bank or friends with ben bernanke).

you have to earn you fiat money by selling your time and energy, or trading things that you own or produce, which generally comes back to your human time and energy.

you can earn bitcoins by selling your time and energy or by trading products services too. you dont have to use the old fiat system.

[chrisrico]

tl;dr:  The Bitcoin network historically uses about as much energy as the Bank of America building in New York.

That's a beautiful approximation.

Off topic, something I saw on reddit, loved, and am trying to spread: move tl;dr to the top and rename it Abstract:

[lassdas]

...which could be done in another way. Am i right or what do you ppl think about this?

Lots of people thought about this, yet noone found that other way to do it.
You found it? Then please enlighten us.
But you probably didn't and are just wrong, sorry about that.

[Foxpup]

but as far as i understood the paper from the mysterious (main) programmer of bitcoin (satoshi) it´s also a system to become unique from the system being used now (banking system) but this just doesn´t work because if i doesn´t mine bitcopins i have to pay them with *money* and therefore i am *still* using the old system to get what i want (bs). Or am i wrong?

If/when Bitcoin replaces the old system, your employer will be paying your salary in bitcoins. And your employer got those bitcoins because his customers and investors are paying him in bitcoins. Or, to look at it from the other side, each bitcoin starts out in the hands of a miner, but miners need to buy things just like everybody else, so they'll spend their bitcoins on tangible goods, putting those bitcoins in the hands of various businesses, who are then able pay those bitcoins to their employees. In this way, bitcoins will be rapidly circulated throughout the community to anyone willing to work for them.