21dotco: A bitcoin miner in every device and in every hand

[Denker]

21 is now officially open for business — and business development. After much hard work, we’ve created an embeddable mining chip which we call the BitShare that comes in a variety of form factors. The 21 BitShare can be embedded into an internet-connected device as a standalone chip or integrated into an existing chipset as a block of IP to generate a continuous stream of digital currency for use in a wide variety of applications. You can request a dev kit by signing up on our website to get started.

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

https://21.co/

[Chris_Stewart_5]

So who is paying for the power? 21 mentions talk of subsidizing pieces of hardware by including a Bitcoin miner - however this costs much more in power while it will generate less and less bitcoin the longer the device exists. This essentially costs the user more money in the long run.

[HI-TEC99]

Someone said they were thinking of putting mining chips in mobile phones. I cannot understand how draining their batteries faster will be an improvement. I heard mining viruses often alert people to their presence by draining Android phone's batteries in less than an hour. How can mining chips in phones be profitable without excessive power drain?

[RoadStress]

So who is paying for the power? 21 mentions talk of subsidizing pieces of hardware by including a Bitcoin miner - however this costs much more in power while it will generate less and less bitcoin the longer the device exists. This essentially costs the user more money in the long run.

You do realize that the power cost would be negligible. What's with everyone's obsession with the power costs?

[odolvlobo]

So who is paying for the power? 21 mentions talk of subsidizing pieces of hardware by including a Bitcoin miner - however this costs much more in power while it will generate less and less bitcoin the longer the device exists. This essentially costs the user more money in the long run.

You do realize that the power cost would be negligible. What's with everyone's obsession with the power costs?

Negligible or not, the cost of running the mining chip would exceed its benefit.

[Alley]

The user will get a percentage of mined bitcoin.  And I believe the idea is that the hardware itself will be super cheap.  Like new moto x is $500.  Or $250 with bitcoin chip.  For example.

[R2D221]

The user will get a percentage of mined bitcoin.  And I believe the idea is that the hardware itself will be super cheap.  Like new moto x is $500.  Or $250 with bitcoin chip.  For example.

The problem is not hardware price, but energy costs. And the end user will lose more dollars in electricity bills than bitcoins from mining.

[HI-TEC99]

The user will get a percentage of mined bitcoin.  And I believe the idea is that the hardware itself will be super cheap.  Like new moto x is $500.  Or $250 with bitcoin chip.  For example.

The problem is not hardware price, but energy costs. And the end user will lose more dollars in electricity bills than bitcoins from mining.

Battery life is a big problem for mobile phones too. Some modern smart phones are so power hungry they struggle to last a day without a recharge. If they start mining on battery power their batteries will probably go dead in far less than a day.

[odolvlobo]

The most surprising thing is that people have invested millions of dollars into this horrible idea. I keep thinking that here must be more to it that isn't obvious.

[futureofbitcoin]

Its not a horrible idea for the investors... i can't say the same for the consumers.

[HI-TEC99]

The most surprising thing is that people have invested millions of dollars into this horrible idea. I keep thinking that here must be more to it that isn't obvious.

It reminds me of the IPOs held here. The investors might find they lose a considerable percentage of their investments if no manufacturers want to put mining chips into their toasters. They might consider adding network connectivity to a toaster too expensive to implement.

[Alley]

Don't underestimate the stupidity of consumers.  Most people don't understand mining or the power costs and they won't do the research.  "New smartphone for $100?  Where do I sign!"

[mercistheman]

New battery technology will make the new chip requirements insignificant.

[futureofbitcoin]

It doesn't even seem the savings for the devices will go to the consumers. From what I understand, all 21 inc is doing, is giving the chips away for free to manufactures. They're not subsidizing the costs for the other parts of the devices for the consumer, so the prices will remain the same, except now you get to spend your own money to give to 21 inc.

I could be misunderstanding this but...

[RoadStress]

Negligible or not, the cost of running the mining chip would exceed its benefit.

Since when do we have to only run electrical devices that bring more revenue than their power cost? Since the cost is negligible then why does it matter that it will eat more power than what it will produce? And why do you only measure the bitcoins that the devices make? Why doesn't anyone think about the security that comes with it?

The problem is not hardware price, but energy costs. And the end user will lose more dollars in electricity bills than bitcoins from mining.

See my above reply. Nobody cares about a few extra dollars (<5$/month) on their power bill and nobody will care how many bitcoin will the device produce. They will care more about the added security of the bitcoin p2p network and the discounts that they will receive.

The most surprising thing is that people have invested millions of dollars into this horrible idea. I keep thinking that here must be more to it that isn't obvious.

It's a good idea. Well having a mining chip in mobile phones seems a bit strange, but having them in routers seems like a very good idea to me. If they can pull it off on the mobiles in a way to not eat the battery fast then they are the winners.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of consumers.  Most people don't understand mining or the power costs and they won't do the research.  "New smartphone for $100?  Where do I sign!"

It's how the iPhones got their success so I don't understand your point here.

[futureofbitcoin]

Since when do we have to only run electrical devices that bring more revenue than their power cost? Since the cost is negligible then why does it matter that it will eat more power than what it will produce? And why do you only measure the bitcoins that the devices make? Why doesn't anyone think about the security that comes with it?
They will care more about the added security of the bitcoin p2p network and the discounts that they will receive.

How does it make their phones or toasters or ipads or whatever more secure? It wouldn't. It also wouldn't give them discounts. In fact, from what I understand, 21 inc wants to add various layers of costs to browsing the internet that we don't have now. Potentially just trying to go to google.com will cost you say 0.00001BTC. It's not bringing you savings, it's adding costs, and forcing you to pay them.

And again, just having btc doesn't make your device more secure. That's just silly. In fact, if I had 10000BTC on my laptop, chances are it's less secure since more people might try to hack it.

And finally, we don't run devices that bring revenue. However, they bring some other sort of benefit. This doesn't give ANY benefit. All it does is eat electricity. That's the difference.

[R2D221]

Nobody cares about a few extra dollars (<5$/month) on their power bill and nobody will care how many bitcoin will the device produce. They will care more about the added security of the bitcoin p2p network and the discounts that they will receive.

The average user? Really? I don't see my mom or my siblings caring whether the Bitcoin network is strong or not.

[odolvlobo]

Negligible or not, the cost of running the mining chip would exceed its benefit.

Since when do we have to only run electrical devices that bring more revenue than their power cost? Since the cost is negligible then why does it matter that it will eat more power than what it will produce? And why do you only measure the bitcoins that the devices make? Why doesn't anyone think about the security that comes with it?

The problem is not hardware price, but energy costs. And the end user will lose more dollars in electricity bills than bitcoins from mining.

See my above reply. Nobody cares about a few extra dollars (<5$/month) on their power bill and nobody will care how many bitcoin will the device produce. They will care more about the added security of the bitcoin p2p network and the discounts that they will receive.

People care even less about the security benefits than the additional cost per month.

[SpanishSoldier]

21 is now officially open for business — and business development. After much hard work, we’ve created an embeddable mining chip which we call the BitShare that comes in a variety of form factors. The 21 BitShare can be embedded into an internet-connected device as a standalone chip or integrated into an existing chipset as a block of IP to generate a continuous stream of digital currency for use in a wide variety of applications. You can request a dev kit by signing up on our website to get started.

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

https://21.co/

This is a very innovative concept I must say...

[RoadStress]

How does it make their phones or toasters or ipads or whatever more secure? It wouldn't. It also wouldn't give them discounts. In fact, from what I understand, 21 inc wants to add various layers of costs to browsing the internet that we don't have now. Potentially just trying to go to google.com will cost you say 0.00001BTC. It's not bringing you savings, it's adding costs, and forcing you to pay them.

And again, just having btc doesn't make your device more secure. That's just silly. In fact, if I had 10000BTC on my laptop, chances are it's less secure since more people might try to hack it.

And finally, we don't run devices that bring revenue. However, they bring some other sort of benefit. This doesn't give ANY benefit. All it does is eat electricity. That's the difference.

I said it will make the bitcoin network more secure, not their appliances.

I don't know from where you got the information that 21 inc wants to add various layers of costs for browsing the internet. Maybe you would enlighten me.

How much revenue is the TV bringing to you? What about your router? This will bring a benefit. You will earn some satoshis. Less than the power cost, but it will be that small that you will not be able to get it from somewhere else.

The average user? Really? I don't see my mom or my siblings caring whether the Bitcoin network is strong or not.

They will care if they will want to use their earned satoshis.

People care even less about the security benefits than the additional cost per month.

And how much do you think that will be? I imagine it being less than 5$/month. Who cares about an extra 5$/month if they can afford a smartphone and a data plan for it?

Actually it might be ~1$/month and also people charge their smartphone at work and in various places. It will not be only in their homes.