A bitcoin miner in every hand

[s1gs3gv]

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Will it fly ?

[RoadStress]

It must! Anyone knows about the cell phones power requirements in standby mode and in full power mode? We need to figure out some numbers because I would like to figure out how much power will the bitcoin mining use.

[notlist3d]

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Will it fly ?

It seems like a article just to get them publicity.  We are so far from in every hand, we need a lot more exposure.

And in every device just will never happen.  Some devices would be great other devices make no sense.  Like something you want longer battery life on... you would not put a miner in it.

[klondike_bar]

as a way to get people interested - its cool. but the application of it is stupid.

Lets start at the top:
1) mining will make the phone hot. without a fan or heatsinks, its likely that even 5W worth of mining will get hot to the touch, and possibly a fire hazard if the phone is stuck in the couch under a blanket or pillow.
2) 5W is about 10GH worth of mining, maybe a bit more. Thats about 0.0001BTC/day when operating 24/7
3) That sort of power draw is completely impractical any time the phone isnt plugged in and on a non-flammable surface, so 2-4hrs of mining a day is more likely.
4) that means to earn $5 (the very cheapest price that a mining chip could be produced and integrated into a cellphone for) could take anything from 220days (at 24/7) to >6years if you mine 6hrs/day
5) The above does not factor in the power cost. which is probably 50% more costly than the bitcoins produced (for the average residential electricity cost)


short story: they would be better off issueing a $5 BTC voucher with the purchase of a phone, then to design a phone that makes pennies a day while operating at uncomfortable temperatures and having battery issues.

       the same goes for any 'IoT' concepts that involve building bitcoin miners in places/objects that would be mining for anything less than 12hrs/day using residential eletricity.

[notlist3d]

as a way to get people interested - its cool. but the application of it is stupid.

Lets start at the top:
1) mining will make the phone hot. without a fan or heatsinks, its likely that even 5W worth of mining will get hot to the touch, and possibly a fire hazard if the phone is stuck in the couch under a blanket or pillow.
2) 5W is about 10GH worth of mining, maybe a bit more. Thats about 0.0001BTC/day when operating 24/7
3) That sort of power draw is completely impractical any time the phone isnt plugged in and on a non-flammable surface, so 2-4hrs of mining a day is more likely.
4) that means to earn $5 (the very cheapest price that a mining chip could be produced and integrated into a cellphone for) could take anything from 220days (at 24/7) to >6years if you mine 6hrs/day
5) The above does not factor in the power cost. which is probably 50% more costly than the bitcoins produced (for the average residential electricity cost)


short story: they would be better off issueing a $5 BTC voucher with the purchase of a phone, then to design a phone that makes pennies a day while operating at uncomfortable temperatures and having battery issues.

       the same goes for any 'IoT' concepts that involve building bitcoin miners in places/objects that would be mining for anything less than 12hrs/day using residential eletricity.

And another thing on phones and laptops is battery life.  If it mines when your not using it think of wifi, processor, ram, etc that would be running during off time.

I just don't see this for most products.   Water heater, space heater, etc. Yes very easily could do.  I just think this company keeps putting these out to get looked at.  And possibly trying to get more investors.  They can't believe all that they say even.

[JLynn171]

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Will it fly ?

It seems like a article just to get them publicity.  We are so far from in every hand, we need a lot more exposure.

And in every device just will never happen.  Some devices would be great other devices make no sense.  Like something you want longer battery life on... you would not put a miner in it.

You dont think technology will be able to overcome short battery life on devices? i Figured we would already have overcome this small step, but the constant flow of data and the heat caused by would mean alot of these devices have short lifespan which would mean more turn around on replacements and even more money in big companies pockets...

[notlist3d]

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Will it fly ?

It seems like a article just to get them publicity.  We are so far from in every hand, we need a lot more exposure.

And in every device just will never happen.  Some devices would be great other devices make no sense.  Like something you want longer battery life on... you would not put a miner in it.

You dont think technology will be able to overcome short battery life on devices? i Figured we would already have overcome this small step, but the constant flow of data and the heat caused by would mean alot of these devices have short lifespan which would mean more turn around on replacements and even more money in big companies pockets...

Sure they could put bigger batteries.  But most likely having a miner in your pocket all day does not seem like ideal product.

Do you honestly believe every device makes sense being a miner?

[alh]

Why on earth would you want to burden a PHONE with a computing task like Bitcoin mining? There is nothing free about it, and it will suck the life out of you batteries, if not run the device hot. People routinely post about "mining Bitcoin on my laptop with it's super duper GPU". The same rules apply. The phone is designed to sip the absolute minimal amount of power and keep up with E-mail and TXT, maybe GPS as well. Anything beyond that is just a waste of power and money.

Apple (and Samsung etc) go to great lengths to fit in the most capability and battery within in a tiny envelope. and not have it get too hot, and last at least all day on a charge. Just because it might be possible doesn't make it a good choice, just like mining on your laptop makes zero sense.

[Searing]

as a way to get people interested - its cool. but the application of it is stupid.

Lets start at the top:
1) mining will make the phone hot. without a fan or heatsinks, its likely that even 5W worth of mining will get hot to the touch, and possibly a fire hazard if the phone is stuck in the couch under a blanket or pillow.
2) 5W is about 10GH worth of mining, maybe a bit more. Thats about 0.0001BTC/day when operating 24/7
3) That sort of power draw is completely impractical any time the phone isnt plugged in and on a non-flammable surface, so 2-4hrs of mining a day is more likely.
4) that means to earn $5 (the very cheapest price that a mining chip could be produced and integrated into a cellphone for) could take anything from 220days (at 24/7) to >6years if you mine 6hrs/day
5) The above does not factor in the power cost. which is probably 50% more costly than the bitcoins produced (for the average residential electricity cost)


short story: they would be better off issueing a $5 BTC voucher with the purchase of a phone, then to design a phone that makes pennies a day while operating at uncomfortable temperatures and having battery issues.

       the same goes for any 'IoT' concepts that involve building bitcoin miners in places/objects that would be mining for anything less than 12hrs/day using residential eletricity.

well again from this link

http://www.coindesk.com/21-inc-confirms-plans-bitcoin-distribution/


it has this cryptic remark

guote

Chief among these would be the existing operators of large-scale data centers who Srinivasan said could benefit from integration of BitShare chips into their operations. 21 Inc had previously been involved in talks with companies including Advanced Micro Devices (AMD), Comcast and Intel to embed the chips.

"This means any vendor can take a chip performing a normal function (say video decoding or networking), add 21’s BitShare technology and thereby enable the chip to continuously generate revenue simply by being connected to power and Internet," Srinivasan said.


unquote


so if it is an added value "preforming a valid function" ..it would be like mining at a CPU level...very very little in the way of mining but with so many chips using such it would add up

also ..I read when they were 'speculating' a few weeks ago that circle 21 was gonna do something like this on the notion of giving 'products away' say a toaster that mines bitcoin..cirlce 21 would get 75% of the coin and consumer would get 25% ...of this meager amount ....even if that is just press fud from 2 weeks ago...the notion that circle 21 could get even say 20% of all action as an added value in ALL....  say AMD graphic cards..even at a mining rate that would do little if any to effect the card..as imho the above quote seems to imply...same for cell phones..you take a bit before the issue of heat and the rest comes into play..you mine w/o the negative effects coming into play....the distribution would have to be huge to pull this off and again you'd have to take a bit of the action on each chip or setup or whatever .....to pull off any profit at least in the short term

now if you drank the kool aid and you feel btc is gonna go to 1k to 10k again and you believe the 'Internet of everything is coming" this seems more doable

but right now ..i can't figure out the 'fuzzy logic' on how the heck you would get enough folk to get this moving and off the ground at the current BTC price level


whatever what I got from the quote above wrong thou I may be on my 'suppositions" .that the quote above is correct and the bitcoin addition to mining above would not effect
the normal operation of the chips in question ..a big if imho

[alh]

As I said in another 21 related thread, "just add on a little <blah> to your gadget" looks great on a set of Power Point slides at a very high business level. Bring in an engineer, and the hard questions come out, and the actual costs of "adding the <blah>" come out, and it all dissolves real quick. With the rare exceptions of devices that are designed to produce heat as a their primary function, nothing else will stand the marginal cost increase, nor the electrical power cost. Phones, USB hubs, toasters, Cable boxes really make a lousy environment for Bitcoin mining.

[Searing]

As I said in another 21 related thread, "just add on a little <blah> to your gadget" looks great on a set of Power Point slides at a very high business level. Bring in an engineer, and the hard questions come out, and the actual costs of "adding the <blah>" come out, and it all dissolves real quick. With the rare exceptions of devices that are designed to produce heat as a their primary function, nothing else will stand the marginal cost increase, nor the electrical power cost. Phones, USB hubs, toasters, Cable boxes really make a lousy environment for Bitcoin mining.

I agree ...just from the wording in my previous post on "normal" assuming it means what I think it means ..just enough pop to mine a cell phone at a really really minuscule level and not really effect the cellphone in heat etc or electric use or battery drain...man we are talking really really really puny infinitesimal returns....dust of dust of dust ..sheesh..


assuming that IS possible ...wtf..how are you ever gonna get it into everything at that small a return..even if you took a piece of the action on each chip to get it off the ground..especially at these price levels? again ..do they know something we don't like 5k btc is just around the corner? (I wish!)

I mean such a minuscule drain on a device like a thermocouple on a water heater or some such..hey i can see it ...wasted heat converted to electric for your very very puny return

but an Internet link on such? ..again you have to have the "Internet of everything" HERE BY THE END OF THE WEEK!...almost in play first to get enough economy of scale  to even think about pulling this off imho and at todays price range ..just can't see it

and as to your point.....there is always heat/electric use cell phone or whatever even if you fine tune it very very low...but again doing that again imho you almost have to have a hell of a lot inbedded devices already ..the "Internet of everything" is here already! ..to just get this off the ground!

man just can't see how it is feasable on your point and on my point (then again I'm not too bright at one time i did drink the BFL kool aid ...got a refund but still...best to keep in mind)

[brontosaurus]

It's absolute horseshit, period.

I've said it before and will do so again - do the maths.

[alh]

Just thinking about this a little more. It seems to me just about wherever they target an ASIC, it will always be more efficient and cost effective to construct a specialized mining device using that particular ASIC.

If they produce a "high power, high speed ASIC", then they can't jam it into a cell phone, or anything but a high power device (e.g. some kind of heating "appliance").  If they produce a miniscule power device (and corresponding hash rate), why not construct a miner with a ton of them inside? They can't be hard too cool or to power since they were targeted for some thing else. Wouldn't it be more economical to build circuit boards with a bunch of those ASIC's on each? I just don't see the economy of attaching it to some other unrelated device for the purposes of mining or "Transaction Verification Processing" if you wish to think of it that way.

I am just not seeing any compelling advantage to making Bitcoin mining an adjunct to an "Internet of Thing" device? Is there something besides being "cool"?

[Guy Corem]

It's absolute horseshit, period.

I've said it before and will do so again - do the maths.

+1

[notlist3d]

It's absolute horseshit, period.

I've said it before and will do so again - do the maths.

+1

Can anyone explain how they made money off IPO with information like these articles?   Do investors not care? Or did they not understand to invest with these guys?

[twister]

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Will it fly ?

It seems like a article just to get them publicity.  We are so far from in every hand, we need a lot more exposure.

And in every device just will never happen.  Some devices would be great other devices make no sense.  Like something you want longer battery life on... you would not put a miner in it.

You dont think technology will be able to overcome short battery life on devices? i Figured we would already have overcome this small step, but the constant flow of data and the heat caused by would mean alot of these devices have short lifespan which would mean more turn around on replacements and even more money in big companies pockets...

Sure they could put bigger batteries.  But most likely having a miner in your pocket all day does not seem like ideal product.

Do you honestly believe every device makes sense being a miner?

Exactly I don't believe this will happen, just 2 days back I read a guy reporting that he almost fried his Laptop when he tried solo mining and he let it run for 4 hours and it got extremely hot.
 
And if laptops can't take the heat from mining how will phone be able to resist that, I think the phones might blast, if someone tries to do that.

[s1gs3gv]

It's absolute horseshit, period.

I've said it before and will do so again - do the maths.

+1

How much does bitcoin have to be worth at what network difficulty for the math to work for, lets say, a .07w/ghs 16nm finfet device ?

[sidehack]

Probably what they'll end up doing is getting chips integrated into internet-connected stationary household devices without telling the consumers - or at best, put it in the fine print that nobody reads anyway. Maybe add only a few watts to power dissipation, something most folks would never notice. Keep it passively cooled. So someone buys a new Tivo and gives away 25GH to 21e6. The smart fridge has one, and the TV and DVR both have one (in every room), and the XBox has one, and pretty soon your house is secretly giving 200GH to 21e6. Sure they only make a couple bucks from your house, and you won't really fight it because it increases your electric bill by about $3 a month, but when ten thousand people are all doing that, 21e6 now has a 2PH farm at their disposal with zero maintenance cost. Keeping 75% of the earnings you know about isn't near as profitable as keeping 100% of the earnings you don't.

Sure this sounds like a conspiracy theory, and it very much is. But I don't trust investor-driven profit-driven big businesses (with who knows how many hundreds of millions of dollars already driven in with the expectation of boundless returns) to not screw people over as much as legally possible, and then get laws changed when they run out of loophole room. And trusting that most people who like to jump on fads don't take the time to consider the actual cost.

[NorrisK]

So making one post as a hero member with a signature campaign makes you more than 10 days of full time mining on a phone?

No thanks, I'll pass.

[jstefanop]

Probably what they'll end up doing is getting chips integrated into internet-connected stationary household devices without telling the consumers - or at best, put it in the fine print that nobody reads anyway. Maybe add only a few watts to power dissipation, something most folks would never notice. Keep it passively cooled. So someone buys a new Tivo and gives away 25GH to 21e6. The smart fridge has one, and the TV and DVR both have one (in every room), and the XBox has one, and pretty soon your house is secretly giving 200GH to 21e6. Sure they only make a couple bucks from your house, and you won't really fight it because it increases your electric bill by about $3 a month, but when ten thousand people are all doing that, 21e6 now has a 2PH farm at their disposal with zero maintenance cost. Keeping 75% of the earnings you know about isn't near as profitable as keeping 100% of the earnings you don't.

Sure this sounds like a conspiracy theory, and it very much is. But I don't trust investor-driven profit-driven big businesses (with who knows how many hundreds of millions of dollars already driven in with the expectation of boundless returns) to not screw people over as much as legally possible, and then get laws changed when they run out of loophole room. And trusting that most people who like to jump on fads don't take the time to consider the actual cost.

It really is a genius idea, problem is who would actually integrate these chips into their products? Whats the benefit of a fridge maker to add this chip? "Hey buy our fridge it has a bitcoin miner integrated that will save you $1 a month off your electric bill" ....I think not lol.

Now if 21e6 does some deal where half the bitcoin profits go to the company thats a different story....now fridge company has a "free" 1PH farm and 21e6 does also.

Either way I doubt this would fly with consumers...if people find out companies are making a profit off their  electricity there would be an uproar, even at 3 bucks a month.