Palmyra presents a new twist: First Syrian city the group has taken from Government

[Muhammed Zakir]

[cemter]ISIS Alternates Stick and Carrot to Control Palmyra[/center]

Civilians looked out into their neighborhood in Palmyra, Syria, on May 18, the day after ISIS fired rockets into the city.

BEIRUT, Lebanon — Hours after they swept into the Syrian city of Palmyra last week, Islamic State militants carried out scores of summary executions, leaving the bodies of victims — including dozens of government soldiers — in the streets.

Then, residents say, they set about acting like municipal functionaries. They fixed the power plant, turned on the water pumps, held meetings with local leaders, opened the city’s lone bakery and started distributing free bread. They planted their flag atop Palmyra’s storied ancient ruins, and did not immediately loot and destroy them, as they have done at other archaeological sites.

Next came dozens of Syrian government airstrikes, some killing civilians. That gave the Islamic State a political assist: Within days, some residents had redirected the immediate focus of their anger and fear from the militants on the ground to the warplanes overhead.

In Palmyra, the Islamic State group appears to be digging into power in a series of steps it has honed over two years of accumulating territory in Iraq and Syria.


Graphic | Syria After Four Years of Mayhem A look at the conflict that has dismembered Syria and inflamed the region with one of the world’s worst religious and sectarian wars.
But Palmyra presents a new twist: It is the first Syrian city the group has taken from the government, not from insurgents. In Raqqa, farther north, and in Iraq, the group has moved quickly and harshly against anyone perceived as a rival.


The Islamic State alternates between terrorizing residents and courting them. It takes over institutions. And it seeks to co-opt opposition to the government, painting itself as the champion of the people — or at least, the Sunnis — against oppressive central authorities.

That method has helped the group entrench itself in the cities of Raqqa, Syria, and Mosul, Iraq, and is now unfolding in Palmyra.

The Palmyra takeover was detailed by half a dozen residents of the city, including supporters and opponents of the government, via phone or electronic messaging. All asked not to be fully identified, to avoid reprisals from the government or from the Islamic State, also known as ISIS, ISIL or Daesh. Most cast themselves as caught between the threats of government airstrikes and ISIS beheadings or other killings.

On Wednesday, for example, several residents reported that the Islamic State had killed 20 army soldiers in an ancient amphitheater. Others recalled seeing the bodies of soldiers burned alive or beheaded by militants.

“They slaughtered many,” a cafe owner exclaimed about ISIS, then switched to the subject of air raids that he would later blame for the deaths of several friends: “God knows what they’re bombing, it’s so scary!”

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http://nytimes.com/2015/05/29/world/middleeast/isis-alternates-stick-and-carrot-to-control-palmyra.html

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[cryptocoiner]

Are they going to blow all the ancient heritage? Which is not muslim culture? Heard they have killed 4000 people there. Whta to expect?

[Muhammed Zakir]

Are they going to blow all the ancient heritage? Which is not muslim culture? Heard they have killed 4000 people there. Whta to expect?

I certainly can't answer these. We will have to wait what they say/do. I think their real aim is to gain power rather than destroying non-Islamic cultures. I don't know how many more people will fall in their hands.

[bryant.coleman]

Are they going to blow all the ancient heritage? Which is not muslim culture? Heard they have killed 4000 people there. Whta to expect?

According to the ISIS, all the human history which dates before the invention of Islam (AD 610) is unislamic, and therefore all the evidences related to it must be destroyed. Also, many of the statues and other artworks go against the ban on idolatory and personal worship in Islam, and therefore must be destroyed without any trace.

[NUFCrichard]

Are they going to blow all the ancient heritage? Which is not muslim culture? Heard they have killed 4000 people there. Whta to expect?

According to the ISIS, all the human history which dates before the invention of Islam (AD 610) is unislamic, and therefore all the evidences related to it must be destroyed. Also, many of the statues and other artworks go against the ban on idolatory and personal worship in Islam, and therefore must be destroyed without any trace.

Extreme Islamic groups have destroyed historic monuments before in Mali and Afghanistan, I don't see any great reason why they would do otherwise in Palmyra.

It is obviously a massive shame that they are so short sighted and can't see past their own beliefs, it seems that local governments don't care enough to stop ISIS either, otherwise they would be moved back in short order.

[bryant.coleman]

Extreme Islamic groups have destroyed historic monuments before in Mali and Afghanistan, I don't see any great reason why they would do otherwise in Palmyra.

Right now, they are delaying the destruction of the Palmyra artifacts, as they have received a lot of negative publicity when they did the same in Nimrud. I haven't heard about the incident in Mali, but I remember the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha in Afghanistan. What happened in Mali? Is the ISIS active in Mali as well?

it seems that local governments don't care enough to stop ISIS either, otherwise they would be moved back in short order.

The Syrian government under Bashar al Assad have been fighting these monsters for more than four years now. But the Syrian army is no match for the ISIS, which is funded by the Qatari and Saudi oil money.

[Wilikon]

Extreme Islamic groups have destroyed historic monuments before in Mali and Afghanistan, I don't see any great reason why they would do otherwise in Palmyra.

Right now, they are delaying the destruction of the Palmyra artifacts, as they have received a lot of negative publicity when they did the same in Nimrud. I haven't heard about the incident in Mali, but I remember the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha in Afghanistan. What happened in Mali? Is the ISIS active in Mali as well?

it seems that local governments don't care enough to stop ISIS either, otherwise they would be moved back in short order.

The Syrian government under Bashar al Assad have been fighting these monsters for more than four years now. But the Syrian army is no match for the ISIS, which is funded by the Qatari and Saudi oil money.

ISIS 'destroys' famous lion god statue in captured Syrian city of Palmyra... just days after promising locals they would not obliterate ancient monuments


1,900-year-old Lion of Al-Lat statue was reportedly one of the first targets



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3101031/ISIS-destroys-famous-lion-god-statue-captured-Syrian-city-just-days-promising-locals-not-obliterate-Palmyra-s-ancient-monuments.html

[bryant.coleman]

^^^Not surprising at all. Brave Islamic Jihadis destroying evil Pagan idols. 

Each of these statues are worth tens of millions of USD. You can tell how much these idiots hate ancient artifacts by noting the fact that they are destroying them, rather than selling them to artifact collectors.

[Muhammed Zakir]

^^^Not surprising at all. Brave Islamic Jihadis destroying evil Pagan idols. 

Each of these statues are worth tens of millions of USD. You can tell how much these idiots hate ancient artifacts by noting the fact that they are destroying them, rather than selling them to artifact collectors.

Please don't use 'Islamic' there. It is clearly 'non-Islamic'.

[BADecker]

^^^Not surprising at all. Brave Islamic Jihadis destroying evil Pagan idols. 

Each of these statues are worth tens of millions of USD. You can tell how much these idiots hate ancient artifacts by noting the fact that they are destroying them, rather than selling them to artifact collectors.

Please don't use 'Islamic' there. It is clearly 'non-Islamic'.

Since you were so brave that you got in there to ask them, and then out again, what else did they tell you?

[RodeoX]

The sad part is that daesh is now attacking government troops because they have destroyed the FSA and other moderate groups. Next comes the fight between daesh and Al Nusra (Al-Qaeda). Last I checked Nusra was a few kilometers from the center of Damascus.

[BADecker]

Extreme Islamic groups have destroyed historic monuments before in Mali and Afghanistan, I don't see any great reason why they would do otherwise in Palmyra.

Right now, they are delaying the destruction of the Palmyra artifacts, as they have received a lot of negative publicity when they did the same in Nimrud. I haven't heard about the incident in Mali, but I remember the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha in Afghanistan. What happened in Mali? Is the ISIS active in Mali as well?

it seems that local governments don't care enough to stop ISIS either, otherwise they would be moved back in short order.

The Syrian government under Bashar al Assad have been fighting these monsters for more than four years now. But the Syrian army is no match for the ISIS, which is funded by the Qatari and Saudi oil money.

ISIS 'destroys' famous lion god statue in captured Syrian city of Palmyra... just days after promising locals they would not obliterate ancient monuments


1,900-year-old Lion of Al-Lat statue was reportedly one of the first targets



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3101031/ISIS-destroys-famous-lion-god-statue-captured-Syrian-city-just-days-promising-locals-not-obliterate-Palmyra-s-ancient-monuments.html

'Bout time somebody got rid of this false god garbage that has been leading people away from the truth of the real God for way too long.

[BADecker]

Of course, not. Just because some radical Muslims WOULD do the job, doesn't mean that they have the right god either. But it puts the Christians to shame, that rather than get rid of the idols, they adore the art. Weakling Christians! God simply used what He found at hand to get the job done.

[RodeoX]

'Bout time somebody got rid of this false god garbage that has been leading people away from the truth of the real God for way too long.

Right, there is only one God and Mohamed is his messenger. Right?

[BADecker]

Of course I don't hear voices in my head. I was simply answering RodeoX before he asked.

Nobody hears voices in his/her head. They hear the sounds that voices make in their heads because that's where their eardrums are.

 

[TaunSew]

No apologist but the tactics and techniques used by ISIS seem to mirror that of the Conquestadors in Latin America.  Daily Life of the Aztecs by Jacques Soustelle goes into detail about the brutality of the Spaniards on the indigenous peoples of the Americas.  The Spaniards would do stuff like grab babies, by their feet, and smash their heads on cobbled stones.

Or even the Christian Missionaries after the year 600 who converted the Germanic, Finnic and Romuva pagans to Christianity and carried out campaigns of terrorism, destruction of artifacts and monuments, et cetera.  There is a lot of literature, for instance, which covers the German missionaries in the Baltic who went on murder, loot and rape rampages in their quest to extend Christianity.  One prominent tactic of those German crusaders, if I recall, was they would slice the breasts off women and shoot arrows into people tied to trees.  All in the name of his lord Jesus Christ.



Organized religion, in terms of population per capita, has always been the greatest blood letter in human history.  In per capita terms, the religious wars in Eurasia (e.g., 30 years war) was more devastating than both Nazism and Communism put together.

[BADecker]

That's why Buddhist monks are fighting Muslims, now. They realize that they might be next on ISIS's list.

[Spendulus]

No apologist but the tactics and techniques used by ISIS seem to mirror that of the Conquestadors in Latin America.  Daily Life of the Aztecs by Jacques Soustelle goes into detail about the brutality of the Spaniards on the indigenous peoples of the Americas.  The Spaniards would do stuff like grab babies, by their feet, and smash their heads on cobbled stones.

Or even the Christian Missionaries after the year 600 who converted the Germanic, Finnic and Romuva pagans to Christianity and carried out campaigns of terrorism, destruction of artifacts and monuments, et cetera.  There is a lot of literature, for instance, which covers the German missionaries in the Baltic who went on murder, loot and rape rampages in their quest to extend Christianity.  One prominent tactic of those German crusaders, if I recall, was they would slice the breasts off women and shoot arrows into people tied to trees.  All in the name of his lord Jesus Christ.



Organized religion, in terms of population per capita, has always been the greatest blood letter in human history.  In per capita terms, the religious wars in Eurasia (e.g., 30 years war) was more devastating than both Nazism and Communism put together.

There is a little problem with your analysis.  Even in his time, Pizarro was recognized as something of a madman.    And the Spanish conquests were pretty much all about gold and silver.  Yes they made a bit of a show about "converting the Indians," but it really wasn't taken seriously.  They came for gold, then they sent ships back full of it. 

So there isn't any parallel between ISIS and the Conquistadors, is there?


As for your listing of Christian stuff, there is a little problem there, also.  It is as if you are saying something like "ISIS is like the barbarians we Christians were a thousand years ago."

Well, Duhh.....

Yeah, they are totally medieval.  I don't think you've even created a case for moral equivalency here.

[bryant.coleman]

The sad part is that daesh is now attacking government troops because they have destroyed the FSA and other moderate groups. Next comes the fight between daesh and Al Nusra (Al-Qaeda). Last I checked Nusra was a few kilometers from the center of Damascus.

The ISIS hasn't destroyed FSA. On the other hand, 90% of the FSA units simply defected to the ISIS, as there is a feeling within the FSA rank and file that the leadership is not conservative enough. And regarding the battles between ISIS and Al Nusra, they were a thing of the past. Latest reports indicates that the two groups have reconciled and are examining the possibility of a merger.

[Spendulus]

....

Organized religion, in terms of population per capita, has always been the greatest blood letter in human history.  In per capita terms, the religious wars in Eurasia (e.g., 30 years war) was more devastating than both Nazism and Communism put together.

Says who?

Can you prove this?

If you did, you would do it how, exactly?

Is this the statement to be proved?

"3000 years of religious wars killed more people as a fraction of existent populations that major "Isms" of the 20th century."

I can't read that - is the assertion in the aggregate, cumulative, per century, per decade, or what?

It's certainly an interesting question, a comparison of "religious deaths" versus "communist deaths" versus "Nazi deaths."