Gavin Threatens to Quit Bitcoin Development and Join Hearn's Fork

[LiteCoinGuy]

21 MB - the new blocksize limit! Makes more sense  !

[1715269614]

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[redsn0w]

Isn't Hearn that dude who wanted to force proof of identity by having people verify their passports?

Bitcoin  >>  Gavcoin >>  Fedcoin

The people don't understand that we are not obliged to follow his 'fork' so why are you complaining? If you don't want to follow or accept the Gavin's proposal, simple hold your coin or sell them for any FIAT currency.

[Lauda]

The core developers, Gregory, Pieter, Luke and Matt are involved in a company Blockstream: https://www.blockstream.com/team/ .
Obviously they want Blockstream to be successful. Please tell me how Gavin is biased and the others aren't.  

There are two sides to (almost) each story, and there definitely are hidden agendas involved here.

[redsn0w]

The core developers, Gregory, Pieter, Luke and Matt are involved in a company Blockstream: https://www.blockstream.com/team/ .
Obviously they want Blockstream to be successful. Please tell me how Gavin is biased and the others aren't.  

There are two sides to (almost) each story, and there definitely are hidden agendas involved here.

So are you saying that it is present a conflict of interest, because I do not see why the other core can vote or agree with the Gavin's proposal. A technology should be updated if it wants to stay alive.


However I will grab my popcorn and watch!

[Muhammed Zakir]

The core developers, Gregory, Pieter, Luke and Matt are involved in a company Blockstream: https://www.blockstream.com/team/ .
Obviously they want Blockstream to be successful. Please tell me how Gavin is biased and the others aren't.  

There are two sides to (almost) each story, and there definitely are hidden agendas involved here.

One of the biggest problem of people is that they only accept what they were provided with. Medias exploit this easily.

BTW, where did Gavin threatens to quit Bitcoin development? And isn't this really Gavin's fork? The title is misleading.

[redsn0w]

The core developers, Gregory, Pieter, Luke and Matt are involved in a company Blockstream: https://www.blockstream.com/team/ .
Obviously they want Blockstream to be successful. Please tell me how Gavin is biased and the others aren't.  

There are two sides to (almost) each story, and there definitely are hidden agendas involved here.

One of the biggest problem of people is that they only accept what they were provided with. Medias exploit this easily.

BTW, where did Gavin threatens to quit Bitcoin development? And isn't this really Gavin's fork? The title is misleading.

Yes the thread title is misleading, simply it is not a threat :


What do other people think?


If we can't come to an agreement soon, then I'll ask for help
reviewing/submitting patches to Mike's Bitcoin-Xt project that implement a
big increase now that grows over time so we may never have to go through
all this rancor and debate again.

I'll then ask for help lobbying the merchant services and exchanges and
hosted wallet companies and other bitcoind-using-infrastructure companies
(and anybody who agrees with me that we need bigger blocks sooner rather
than later) to run Bitcoin-Xt instead of Bitcoin Core, and state that they
are running it. We'll be able to see uptake on the network by monitoring
client versions.

Perhaps by the time that happens there will be consensus bigger blocks are
needed sooner rather than later; if so, great! The early deployment will
just serve as early testing, and all of the software already deployed will
ready for bigger blocks.

But if there is still no consensus among developers but the "bigger blocks
now" movement is successful, I'll ask for help getting big miners to do the
same, and use the soft-fork block version voting mechanism to (hopefully)
get a majority and then a super-majority willing to produce bigger blocks.
The purpose of that process is to prove to any doubters that they'd better
start supporting bigger blocks or they'll be left behind, and to give them
a chance to upgrade before that happens.


Because if we can't come to consensus here, the ultimate authority for
determining consensus is what code the majority of merchants and exchanges
and miners are running.


--
--
Gavin Andresen



sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/34155307/

And there are also some interesting article on his block blog http://gavinandresen.ninja

[Lauda]

So are you saying that it is present a conflict of interest, because I do not see why the other core can vote or agree with the Gavin's proposal. A technology should be updated if it wants to stay alive.
However I will grab my popcorn and watch!

The thing is that these updates can't be just patched in to Bitcoin at will. The developers usually review/discuss changes and need to reach consensus when it is something big as the 20MB block size (even though it is not big).
Don't get me wrong. I do not support Gavin's Bitcoin XT fork at all. This will severely damage the whole ecosystem. I'm trying to say that the developers have hidden agendas (mostly financial) to why they're against the block size increase.

One of the biggest problem of people is that they only accept what they were provided with. Medias exploit this easily.

BTW, where did Gavin threatens to quit Bitcoin development? And isn't this really Gavin's fork? The title is misleading.

Things are taking a turn. The problem is actually that every single dumdum in the world has the right to join Bitcoin and start spewing out nonsense. The developers will become exhausted and stressed out.
We've read thousands of different opinions, most of which are utter nonsense backed up only by the unicorns in my garden. Things are getting out of control. Look at the drama now.

Maxwell will potentially leave if Bitcoin XT rolls out:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37vg8y/is_the_blockstream_company_the_reason_why_4_core/crqbd78

Don't tell me it is misleading or anything and just read his damn post.

If the Bitcoin community wants to go commit suicide, I'm confident that I can sell my most of my bitcoins before most of the public has realized things have gone wrong. .

[sintax]

Isn't Hearn that dude who wanted to force proof of identity by having people verify their passports?

Bitcoin  >>  Gavcoin >>  Fedcoin

The people don't understand that we are not obliged to follow his 'fork' so why are you complaining? If you don't want to follow or accept the Gavin's proposal, simple hold your coin or sell them for any FIAT currency.

Oh the illusion of choice, lol sure thing mate, keep increasing that post count

So we should just sit back and let Fed-friendly Gavin/Hearn turn Bitcoin into a centralized shitcoin, no thanks. Last thing I want to do is cash out to fiat...

[redsn0w]

So are you saying that it is present a conflict of interest, because I do not see why the other core can vote or agree with the Gavin's proposal. A technology should be updated if it wants to stay alive.
However I will grab my popcorn and watch!

The thing is that these updates can't be just patched in to Bitcoin at will. The developers usually review/discuss changes and need to reach consensus when it is something big as the 20MB block size (even though it is not big).
Don't get me wrong. I do not support Gavin's Bitcoin XT fork at all. This will severely damage the whole ecosystem. I'm trying to say that the developers have hidden agendas (mostly financial) to why they're against the block size increase.
...

Like I said yesterday:

1. probably its just overblown drama.  Consensus will
be reached.

2. I think the block size needs to increase, its
not "fuckery".

3. If a fork does happen, its bad for Bitcoin
but if you're HODLing , you'll have both
coins so you can wait and see what happens
when the dust settles.

This is so risky, if one of the chain will be abbandone you will lose all your coin  and this why all the community is worried (it is only a question of money, and it is really a tall order for gavin).

I will go with XT, but I will also hold my actual bitcoin... let's see what it will happen. However I am also thinking, why few people should have the power to choose for us? Is it not against with the bitcoin philosophy?

Isn't Hearn that dude who wanted to force proof of identity by having people verify their passports?

Bitcoin  >>  Gavcoin >>  Fedcoin

The people don't understand that we are not obliged to follow his 'fork' so why are you complaining? If you don't want to follow or accept the Gavin's proposal, simple hold your coin or sell them for any FIAT currency.

Oh the illusion of choice, lol sure thing mate, keep increasing that post count

Is this a forum? Are you saying that I can't post  ?

So we should just sit back and let Fed-friendly Gavin/Hearn turn Bitcoin into a centralized shitcoin, no thanks. Last thing I want to do is cash out to fiat...

What is your proposal to 'fight' against the Gavin's proposal? The unique thing that we can do is 'not update the client'... or maybe do you have something of better?

[Lauda]

I will go with XT, but I will also hold my actual bitcoin... let's see what it will happen. However I am also thinking, why few people should have the power to choose for us? Is it not against with the bitcoin philosophy?

Please elaborate why? This is exactly what I've been talking about. People without proper technical background will chose the wrong chain/software and things are going to start falling apart.
You do realize that XT has patches that have been rejected for Core due to them weakening the security? I don't know the exact details but I would like someone to present it all nicely.

Even though I have respect for Gavin what he is doing is wrong.

[qwk]

21 MB - the new blocksize limit! Makes more sense  !

21.000.000 bits! Wait, no, that's just 2.5 MB.
Make that 21.000.000 Bytes!

[Amph]

Even though I have respect for Gavin what he is doing is wrong.

so what is your plan? because apparently you think that the other 4 dev are wrong too or you are not with them, at least this is what i get from this post

The core developers, Gregory, Pieter, Luke and Matt are involved in a company Blockstream: https://www.blockstream.com/team/ .
Obviously they want Blockstream to be successful. Please tell me how Gavin is biased and the others aren't.  

There are two sides to (almost) each story, and there definitely are hidden agendas involved here.

[Lauda]

Even though I have respect for Gavin what he is doing is wrong.

so what is your plan? because apparently you think that the other 4 dev are wrong too or you are not with them, at least this is what i get from this post

The core developers, Gregory, Pieter, Luke and Matt are involved in a company Blockstream: https://www.blockstream.com/team/ .
Obviously they want Blockstream to be successful. Please tell me how Gavin is biased and the others aren't.  

There are two sides to (almost) each story, and there definitely are hidden agendas involved here.

Unfortunately some opinions don't matter. Neither do I have the influence or power here to change much and by the time I start committing to the Core I'm not even sure that it will exist. That statement was just showing that we can't blame either side or everything. Both parties have hidden agendas. Unfortunately most people are very greedy and complicated, including these developers and thus the situation has arisen.
Nonsense like this is what I'm trying to prevent, but it seems futile..

gavin fucked it up for everybody say bye bye to your investments

What I would prefer:
It is a fact that the blocks are eventually going to get filled with transactions and that some aren't going to get included. Keeping it like that would be horrible as rich people would be able to prioritize transactions (completely against Bitcoin). Something has to be done in order to prevent this rather than to fix it once it happens. They also have to properly explain the problems with XT. Which patches and exactly why have they been rejected.

The developers need to show potential and better (elaborate why) solutions to the 1MB cap and implement it on time into the Core. This would be a substitute to the what Gavin wants and should theoretically work better than just increasing the cap. Gavin needs to stop with this XT nonsense, because no good will come of it. This only has a potential negative effect on the whole ecosystem, as I fail to see any potential positive ones.
Feel free to correct me.

[sintax]

Is this a forum? Are you saying that I can't post  ?

Yeah satoshi just called me, he said you should be banned from posting on this forum. No it was just a snide comment about the amount of posts you're making, nothing more, nothing less.

So we should just sit back and let Fed-friendly Gavin/Hearn turn Bitcoin into a centralized shitcoin, no thanks. Last thing I want to do is cash out to fiat...

What is your proposal to 'fight' against the Gavin's proposal? The unique thing that we can do is 'not update the client'... or maybe do you have something of better?

All I'm saying is changes do need to made, just not in the way these guys are proposing with XT. Their divide and conquer tactics aren't going to help either though it will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

Prepare for the Bitcoin civil war

[Shawshank]

I feel it is crucial that all core developers go for a compromise on the solution and they speak as one single voice. Maybe we can upgrade to a 10 MB or a 4 MB block?

I personally don't know what to support because I currently don't see a winning consensus on either solution and opinions are scattered in the web.

A manifesto with a workable compromise solution by the key core developers would definitely help. From that moment on, companies, merchants, users and miners would surely follow.

[redsn0w]

I will go with XT, but I will also hold my actual bitcoin... let's see what it will happen. However I am also thinking, why few people should have the power to choose for us? Is it not against with the bitcoin philosophy?

Please elaborate why?

Because the 1MB limit it was added later for prevent the spam, it was a thing not from the beginning... I would prefer a random block size instead of 1-5-20-100 MB .

This is exactly what I've been talking about. People without proper technical background will chose the wrong chain/software and things are going to start falling apart.

Exactly, I think the same. We should also think that not all the people who are using bitcoin are registered here in the forum or have some knowledge about what it is happening now.

You do realize that XT has patches that have been rejected for Core due to them weakening the security? I don't know the exact details but I would like someone to present it all nicely.

Even though I have respect for Gavin what he is doing is wrong.

I didn't know this thing before your post, I would like also to learn more about this fact (and I will make my own research). Gavin's ultimate way proposal is a sort of "with me or against me" (or this is what I thought the first time when I have read his message).

So we should just sit back and let Fed-friendly Gavin/Hearn turn Bitcoin into a centralized shitcoin, no thanks. Last thing I want to do is cash out to fiat...

What is your proposal to 'fight' against the Gavin's proposal? The unique thing that we can do is 'not update the client'... or maybe do you have something of better?

All I'm saying is changes do need to made, just not in the way these guys are proposing with XT. Their divide and conquer tactics aren't going to help either though it will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

Prepare for the Bitcoin civil war

So is it only the proposing way not the 'change itself' and yes it will be a real bitcoin civil war, only who will be in the correct chain will win.

[not altcoin hitler]

Gavin should leave and should not be allowed to tinker with the code of Bitcoin ever again. He's a shitcoin dev.

[shulio]

Gavin should leave and should not be allowed to tinker with the code of Bitcoin ever again. He's a shitcoin dev.

He is one of the reputable member and an asset for bitcoin, although his proposal here is abit too much for the consensus. His threats of leaving doesnt sound like a threat, more like asking for help from hearn. If he leave the team, there will be a huge debate on who will fill his spot later

[Gibbs187x]

Bitcoin will die and shadowcash will rise you all fools

[Muhammed Zakir]

Bitcoin will die and shadowcash will rise you all fools

Says a man without experience!