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Author Topic: Bitcoin Core or XT, you dont have to choose NOW. Dont bother with the poll....  (Read 3839 times)
seriouscoin
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May 31, 2015, 10:02:05 PM
 #1

God damn this forums must be all newbies or what? I had to log in to make this thread to stop all the nonsense from you newbies for the past few days. Let me break it down to you what is happening, and why a fork might not be a fork!


+ You currently dont have to choose Core or XT, both are just wallet clients using the same database (blockchain)

+ You can run both wallet clients if you dont know to support blocksize increase or not

+ Gavin and Dev core using 2 clients to sort out the consensus of the network, who will support blocksize increase and who wont.

+ As the XT becomes 90% of bitcoin nodes, Gavin will implement the blocksize increase. This is like soft fork, you will know by then because i'm sure all major bitcoin services will announce they will support the blocksize increase or not.

+ The Core will be obsoleted and the bitcoin network has reached the consensus.



Here is the BS being spread around here:

- You can sell your coins of weaker chain : NO you WONT, i can tell you no exchange will support a weaker chain and risking their business
- Price will be halved because you now have doubled your coins: No it wont, because you cant sell coins on the weaker change on any exchanges. Unless you can find some retard on the forums to sell to, and if you can, you should fork your own bitcoins now and be rich.


Gavin's proposal is to increase pressure on decision making of the Core team. As at the current pace, we will not have enough time left and bitcoin network will face bottleneck. The damages might be too great then and risk all investors involved.

I think this is a brilliant idea. Everyone (bitcoiners) will learn about this and start voting. Look at how many confused members on here, i think it works already.

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May 31, 2015, 10:11:32 PM
 #2

You should also add Gavin's actual email into the OP.

In Gavin's email, he also says how he plans on completing the fork. Once a majority of the network supports his Bitcoin XT fork with a new block version, the blockchain will soft-fork by essentially having those nodes only accept blocks with the new version but still only mine blocks that are 1 Mb or less. Then, once he has a super-majority (>90% of nodes) with the new blocks, the blockchain will hard-fork with the mining of larger blocks. This is how consensus will be achieved, and very few people will be left on the old chain, thus making the old chain weak and undesirable.

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May 31, 2015, 11:50:35 PM
 #3

Thanks guys, there is an awful lot of FUD out there and we need more posts like this.  I was very alarmed at first but after reading more details about what is going on I have come to understand that the issue is not as nuclear as I first thought.
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May 31, 2015, 11:55:58 PM
 #4

The poll allows for it being modified (once you vote, you can modify your vote in the future). It should run way longer tho, at least until January 2016, otherwise its doing more harm than good.

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ChosenSeller
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June 01, 2015, 12:03:29 AM
 #5

Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?
ronald98
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June 01, 2015, 12:12:44 AM
 #6

Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?

No the 21 million coins limit stays exactly the same whatever happens. Nothing's going to change that limit.
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June 01, 2015, 12:12:52 AM
 #7

Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?

I admit I haven't been keeping up with the latest developments but from what I've read during the past month or so, this shouldn't be the case. The fork is a change in the protocol that allows for bigger blocks than the current 1 MB limit. I don't believe that the total number of coins is planned to change. Perhaps you are confusing the concept of larger blocks (measured in megabytes) with larger block rewards (which won't be affected by the fork):

Quote
Each transaction that occurs on the block chain takes up a little bit of space, and these transactions all get squished into a virtual box (a block). Bitcoin currently operates with a 1MB limit. What this means is that only so much information it can process in each block, this currently comes to roughly seven transactions per second.

The discussion recently in the Bitcoin ecosphere has been to increase the block size to 20MB, thereby allowing more transactions in each block, increasing the transactions per second...

...With Bitcoin-Xt, the plan is to go ahead with a big increase at first that will be followed by automatic incremental block size increases over time.

Link: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-xt-pushing-ahead-bigger-blocks/
joecooin
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June 01, 2015, 01:22:51 AM
 #8

Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?

No.

And the Lord will not alter any of the ten commandments either.


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June 01, 2015, 01:26:08 AM
 #9

Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?

No the 21 million coins limit stays exactly the same whatever happens. Nothing's going to change that limit.

Actually, the 21 million coin limit can be raised at any time, and most probably will be in the future.

"The Internet unshackled information, Satoshi Nakamoto unshackled money. And money makes the world go round."
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June 01, 2015, 01:51:19 AM
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Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?

No the 21 million coins limit stays exactly the same whatever happens. Nothing's going to change that limit.

Actually, the 21 million coin limit can be raised at any time, and most probably will be in the future.

It would probably only happen on Gavin's exponential growth fork once the support infrastructure is so centralized that 'consensus' will be a relatively straightforward thing and nobody will be able to do jack shit about it.  But those of us who are still using Bitcoin will have sold our Gavincoin long before that and forgotten all about this mutant evolutionary dead-end with a malignancy coded in.


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June 01, 2015, 01:15:40 PM
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Great post, thank you. Enough of FUD here and in the exchange charts Grin
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June 01, 2015, 01:20:12 PM
 #12

Hi OP, its not really simple to find and install the Bitcoin XT, is there any plan to promote it. Maybe an official shout-out from Gavin to use Bitcoin XT as full node? Until now there is no announcement or something to use Bitcoin XT from Gavin, Hearn and c.o.
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June 01, 2015, 01:45:15 PM
 #13

Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?

No the 21 million coins limit stays exactly the same whatever happens. Nothing's going to change that limit.

Actually, the 21 million coin limit can be raised at any time, and most probably will be in the future.

you are continuing to repeat this, , why we should raise the limit? remember that bitcoin is divisible, and rare enough as it is right now, increasing its value will only damage these aspects

not to mention that you need to redefine the controlled supply/halving table

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June 01, 2015, 01:52:42 PM
 #14

If Bitcoin XT is launched it will become the dominant one.

No pool, no exchange, no business or no person will keep any substantial amount of coins in any wallet which is outdated.

Further more as soon as the XT client is released, there will be an immediate fear of accepting any coin that was generated "post split".


If any one large pool and I suspect most will switch, the domino effect will be fast and furious.

This argument is over as a large majority will switch to any new client that is an update and endorsed by Gavin.



~BCX~

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June 01, 2015, 02:13:34 PM
 #15

I think this is a brilliant idea. Everyone (bitcoiners) will learn about this and start voting. Look at how many confused members on here, i think it works already.

+1. Very good idea. I hope that the bitseed/bitnodes will support and make it easy to change the client.

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June 01, 2015, 02:41:24 PM
 #16

If Bitcoin XT is launched it will become the dominant one.

No pool, no exchange, no business or no person will keep any substantial amount of coins in any wallet which is outdated.

Further more as soon as the XT client is released, there will be an immediate fear of accepting any coin that was generated "post split".


If any one large pool and I suspect most will switch, the domino effect will be fast and furious.

This argument is over as a large majority will switch to any new client that is an update and endorsed by Gavin.



~BCX~



This. The distribution of Bitcoin nodes doesn't really reflect the distribution of the Bitcoin community since many (most?) users don't run full nodes nowadays and major exchanges and mining pools would hold most of the power in the event of a hard fork anyway.

Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?

No the 21 million coins limit stays exactly the same whatever happens. Nothing's going to change that limit.

Actually, the 21 million coin limit can be raised at any time, and most probably will be in the future.

It's not really a fair comparison, although I understand what you're saying.

Virtually nobody would support a fork that increases the total number of coins. On the other hand, increasing the maximum block size isn't a question of "if" but "when". According to Satoshi, if Bitcoin is to ever reach the transaction volume that is expected of a major currency and scale as a payment system that can rival the current alternatives out there then it will need to accommodate a blockchain expansion rate that is much greater than today (the other alternative would be to increase dependence on centralized off-chain payment processing methods for smaller transactions which brings about a whole new set of problems):

Quote from: satoshi
Long before the network gets anywhere near as large as that, it would be safe for users to use Simplified Payment Verification (section eight) to check for double spending, which only requires having the chain of block headers, or about 12KB per day.  Only people trying to create new coins would need to run network nodes.  At first, most users would run network nodes, but as the network grows beyond a certain point, it would be left more and more to specialists with server farms of specialized hardware.  A server farm would only need to have one node on the network and the rest of the LAN connects with that one node.

The bandwidth might not be as prohibitive as you think.  A typical transaction would be about 400 bytes (ECC is nicely compact).  Each transaction has to be broadcast twice, so lets say 1KB per transaction.  Visa processed 37 billion transactions in FY2008, or an average of 100 million transactions per day.  That many transactions would take 100GB of bandwidth, or the size of 12 DVD or 2 HD quality movies, or about $18 worth of bandwidth at current prices.

If the network were to get that big, it would take several years, and by then, sending 2 HD movies over the Internet would probably not seem like a big deal.

Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09964.html
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June 01, 2015, 02:43:46 PM
 #17

Bitcoin limit should never be raised I don't understand why this keeps coming up and I think Gmaxwells alternative solution means adding in alt coins which would raise the amount which would get rid of the value by quite a bit I feel gavins approach would be the best.
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June 01, 2015, 02:45:15 PM
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I'll ber waiting for the dust to settle when this does take place that way I dont have to make a decision but keep my private keys and join the majority.
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June 01, 2015, 02:47:15 PM
 #19

Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?

No the 21 million coins limit stays exactly the same whatever happens. Nothing's going to change that limit.

Actually, the 21 million coin limit can be raised at any time, and most probably will be in the future.

That would be a instant nail in the coffin for Gavincoin.
Look, I think we need to do something about the blocksize, and maybe unless someone comes up with something better, we'll need to modify the blocksize, but forking it to 20MB does shit nothing, we'll meet the same dead end in the future. What we need is doing something scalable. A fork for 20MB is not scalable. Staying 1MB is equally stupid.
But the total supply will always be 21, unless you want an instant dump of epic proportions.

fryarminer
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June 01, 2015, 02:53:19 PM
 #20

Moving to the new fork does this mean the 21 million coins are raised?

No the 21 million coins limit stays exactly the same whatever happens. Nothing's going to change that limit.

Actually, the 21 million coin limit can be raised at any time, and most probably will be in the future.

While it could be raised, consensus would never permit it. Nobody really suffers loss by making the blocks larger. However try to find consensus when the value of everyone's Bitcoin will drastically decrease due to wanting to increase the coin limit!
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