Is Gavin Andresen undercover for the CIA?

[SuperClam]

True; or not.
This conversation is not helpful (even if the results are interesting).


Given a healthy forum of debate, any ulterior motives should emerge.
Alternatively, logic bereft of ulterior motives should emerge.

A well-researched solution(or lack thereof), supported by more than political arguments, is the only logical way forward.


TL;DR

- Proof the problem.
- Proof various solutions.
- Choose a solution (or multiple solutions, leaving the choice to consensus).

[1714012284]

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[Amph]

- Proof the problem.
- Proof various solutions.
- Choose a solution (or multiple solutions, leaving the choice to consensus).

the problem is that you can't do a consensus, if you think that thwse joke poll can do it...., there must be an option in the client so every node can vote for future upgrade/fork, right now it is just a mess, you do not know who want to follow that specific path and who not

[SuperClam]

- Proof the problem.
- Proof various solutions.
- Choose a solution (or multiple solutions, leaving the choice to consensus).

the problem is that you can't do a consensus, if you think that tose joke poll can do it...., there must be an option in the client so every node can vote for future upgrade/fork, right now it is just a mess, you do not know who want to follow that specific path and who not

The poll is indeed a "joke".

I disagree that:

the problem is that you can't do a consensus...

I did not mean "social consensus".
I meant "software consensus".

In the end, there WILL be consensus. 
That consensus may leave two networks; but, it will be maintained.

...there must be an option in the client so every node can vote for future upgrade/fork...

No need for a "feature". 
The client is specifically designed to maintain consensus.
Users vote via running a client that maintains consensus with the network they agree with.

Alternatively, you could split the pubKey space and count chickens.

[AGD]

There is a huge difference between consulting with the CIA and working for them. In those days MANY of these "hackers" were Anti-government or Anti-regime. They worked underground on projects to communicate privately {Anon-mailers and PGP encryption ... real 007 shit}

A project like Bitcoin would have flagged a lot of attention and the CIA would do anything to get there hands on the people behind this project.

I think, and this is my opinion... Gavin got flagged and he decided that it would be better to communicate with them directly. You do not want to be red flagged by these people... He went there to state his case and to clear the air.

If I was put in the same situation, I would most probably have done the same. {It will be bad for you to get a internal exam, every time you fly from one city to the next}  

Go there... explain things and go on with your life.  

I mostly agree with you, but there are some things to add:

- Most of these "hackers" from the early days are either dead, in prison or they are now working with the once hated government.

- I don't believe, that the communication between Gavin and the CIA is limited to this one known occasion like you said "Go there... explain things and go on with your life." I don't believe, that Gavin told us everything about later corrospondence and he has a right to do that in my opinion. Like Gavin said "it's the nature of the beast": everyone can make part of Bitcoin and as long as you get a majority your fork will win the race.

If I could vote for which of the big players will fork Bitcoin it would rather be Europe or USA than any other.

[fat buddah]

I wonder when these gavin-tards get it that Bitcoin is not broken and running fine. It is a rule of complex system to not change them when they are not broken. There is currently a consensus for 1MB blocks else the network would not be running.

The anti-20MB people have to prove nothing and also have to deliver nothing. All they have to do is tell the reasons for the veto and that's it. There is consensus for Bitcoin as is today else it would not be running. If you want to change it you need consensus. If you get a veto (which you did) then there is no consensus on a change and you need to accept that.

After getting a veto for your proposal you have two options:
1) producing a better proposal which will not get a veto
or
2) leave the group (bitcoin in this case)

that is how consensus principle works if you like it or not. There is even more sophisticated methods of approaching consensus but since you are all behaving like apes i'm not even trying.
It's not like consensus democracies would be something new or something. They are just not as commen and people generally have no idea about it.

[Eastfist]

Here's the real reason: Manchurian Candidate. Gavin is NSA. There is distinction. CIA does the thinking, NSA carries out their plan. They're trying to stockpile funds to put their libertarian presidential candidate into office.

[TruthBear]

I'm surprised that the Gavin shills haven't skewed the voting to 'No' yet 

[digicoin]

I think everyone in this forum except me are CIA mole. Get out

[RodeoX]

As someone who grew up in a family of actual government operatives, I assure you this is comedy gold to them.

Gavin is a CIA agent.  Buwahahahah

I'm voting yes. A poll. OMG hahahah.

[gh0st_m0de]

The only reason why I (slightly) humor conversations of this nature, CIA etc.....is because of the name Satoshi Nakamoto.

At least according to name translations, the name itself Satoshi Nakamoto loosely translates to CIA.

Satoshi translating to "wise, intelligent" (via most any baby naming website)
Nakamoto translating to "central" (again baby naming websites, even geneology.com)

Loosely CIA would fit those translations "theoretically".

I just always though Satoshi N. was a very interesting choice for handle or name.

I have no opinion really on Gavin. Just looking at the bigger picture here. I don't think anyone could really know obviously.
On the flip side, would it matter?

Theoretically, If Gavin were CIA dude - what would that mean or what would the effect on the bitcoin world be? What's the intention?

Im gonna go ahead and say, Gavin prob isnt CIA.
CIA would not want so many people using bitcoin - it dilutes the population with legit users making monitoring whoever even harder.
does that make sense?

[ACCTseller]

Where would most of you guys be without your government that protects your ass? There are some nice countries in the world that show, how things go when the government is incapable. Life looks so easy, when everything is in balance and you have your fridge filled, but history has shown countless times, that things can change rapidly...

This is very true. It should also be noted that large governments (primarily the US government) plays a large role in keeping the world a (somewhat) safe place so even if there is no/little government where you live, a government is still going to be protecting you.

No Gavin is not a CIA agent. Even if he was Bitcoin is open source and several people have looked at it's source code for any backdoor/spyware/ect. and has found none

[RodeoX]

The only reason why I (slightly) humor conversations of this nature, CIA etc.....is because of the name Satoshi Nakamoto.

At least according to name translations, the name itself Satoshi Nakamoto loosely translates to CIA.

Satoshi translating to "wise, intelligent" (via most any baby naming website)
Nakamoto translating to "central" (again baby naming websites, even geneology.com)

Loosely CIA would fit those translations "theoretically".

I just always though Satoshi N. was a very interesting choice for handle or name.

I have no opinion really on Gavin. Just looking at the bigger picture here. I don't think anyone could really know obviously.
On the flip side, would it matter?

Theoretically, If Gavin were CIA dude - what would that mean or what would the effect on the bitcoin world be? What's the intention?

Im gonna go ahead and say, Gavin prob isnt CIA.
CIA would not want so many people using bitcoin - it dilutes the population with legit users making monitoring whoever even harder.
does that make sense?

I speak and read some Japanese and that translation is not correct.

聡中本 is a normal name in Japan. The first word "Satoshi" is something like "wisdom". A bit like "Sophia" in Greek. But the second name is made from two characters that imply "inside origin or inside beginning". The first Character is 中. This is a mouth with a line going inside. The second (moto) 本 depicts a tree with it's roots highlighted. Just as in English the roots imply origin of or the start of something.
It is a bit subject to interpretation as it is not an alphabetic language. But mostly it is a name like Dale Winston. Not the most common name, but not uncommon.

You can also see this in the name ( 東京日本). The first caracter shows a tree with the sun rising behind it. So you must be looking "East" the second is an imperial lantern that means "Capitol". So the first word is Tokyo or eastern capitol. The next word is Japan. There is the square "sun" again but this time followed by "Origin". So Japan means origin of the sun. Or land of the rising sun.  

[TruthBear]

As someone who grew up in a family of actual government operatives, I assure you this is comedy gold to them.

Gavin is a CIA agent.  Buwahahahah

I'm voting yes. A poll. OMG hahahah.

Do they know that you spend a great deal of time on an anarchist forum chatting about the end of the fiat world? Bitcointalk in a nutshell?

[RodeoX]

As someone who grew up in a family of actual government operatives, I assure you this is comedy gold to them.

Gavin is a CIA agent.  Buwahahahah

I'm voting yes. A poll. OMG hahahah.

Do they know that you spend a great deal of time on an anarchist forum chatting about the end of the fiat world? Bitcointalk in a nutshell?

Yes. Despite my constant pointing out the silliness of many conspiracy theories I am actually fairly radical. I just don't go in for theories when there are plenty of documented facts about the government's misuse of authority. For example I saw no mention here of the "American Freedom Act" that past yesterday. Even with a name straight out of a George Orwell book, it sailed through with no public outcry. Only Rand Paul held, and was abandoned by his own party.

My Dad served in the FBI and from what I have seen I believe they would only get involved if:
(A)There were a bunch of complaints about specific people or a business.
(B) The specter of terrorists or pedophiles is brought up. That get's everyone going. 
(C) It was part of a larger operation. Like say a money laundering scheme.

Honestly, at the institutional level I think they know very little about bitcoin. Which is not a good thing. Misunderstanding bitcoin is what leads to stupid draconian laws and a perception of BTC as criminal in nature.


   

[cakir]

I thought he was from NSA?
His real name is: "David Andersen"  https://www.nsa.gov/research/_files/selinux/papers/policy2/b908.shtml


ps: This's a troll post, don't care much.

[Raeg]

I think the trolls who post FUD on here constantly have got more chance of being CIA operatives... or are being paid by the CIA or some other government agency to Astroturf.

[BillyBobZorton]

I think the trolls who post FUD on here constantly have got more chance of being CIA operatives... or are being paid by the CIA or some other government agency to Astroturf.

Indeed. The NSA and CIA has their own signature campaign going, except the FUDsters don't have a signature and they get posted by amount of people trolled per FUD thread

[AGD]

As someone who grew up in a family of actual government operatives, I assure you this is comedy gold to them.

Gavin is a CIA agent.  Buwahahahah

I'm voting yes. A poll. OMG hahahah.

Do they know that you spend a great deal of time on an anarchist forum chatting about the end of the fiat world? Bitcointalk in a nutshell?

Yes. Despite my constant pointing out the silliness of many conspiracy theories I am actually fairly radical. I just don't go in for theories when there are plenty of documented facts about the government's misuse of authority. For example I saw no mention here of the "American Freedom Act" that past yesterday. Even with a name straight out of a George Orwell book, it sailed through with no public outcry. Only Rand Paul held, and was abandoned by his own party.

My Dad served in the FBI and from what I have seen I believe they would only get involved if:
(A)There were a bunch of complaints about specific people or a business.
(B) The specter of terrorists or pedophiles is brought up. That get's everyone going. 
(C) It was part of a larger operation. Like say a money laundering scheme.

Honestly, at the institutional level I think they know very little about bitcoin. Which is not a good thing. Misunderstanding bitcoin is what leads to stupid draconian laws and a perception of BTC as criminal in nature.


   

The started to get involved after Wikileaks accepted Bitcoin donations and they wanted to cut off their money supply.

[tvbcof]

Gavin's comments on the LTB podcast #217 (iirc) are very telling.  He implies that people would be more worried if other governments than their own had some control over Bitcoin.  This is utterly dead wrong in my case and probably in the case of many others who had an early interest.  I personally don't give two shits about whether Russia or China spy on me.  They have very limited ability to manipulate my life and unlikely to care enough to try.  My own government, OTOH, is a completely different matter.  The main problem with Russian and China spying on me is that they may (and likely do) horse trade the data to my own government where it has the potential to do me harm.

Gavin loves big brother.  Whether he works for them because he loves them, or whether he loves them because he works for them, or (the most likely scenerio) that he is a mainstream conformist who simply loves big brother because it's his nature is unimportant.  The fact is that he does, and that fact alone should eject him from any significant role in any worthwhile effort.

[Beliathon]

When Gavin went to see the CIA, do you think they turned him? Is this why Satoshi left? Maybe this has been USA's plan from the beginning, which is why they don't fear BTC. Gavin is on a secret mission to tear the community into two; thus the death of bitcoin from the core v XT debate.

Thoughts? I'm genuinely worried what this will do to bitcoin, I don't know if I should dump or not. If Gavin goes to XT, does that mean we're all bag holders of a worthless altcoin, or is XT considered an altcoin? What is real anymore?

You win USA. Bitcoin is a failure; that was a smart move from the CIA. Checkmate, Satoshi.