Are people over-reacting on MNW's bet?

[giszmo]

MNW offered to take the scammer tag if he doesn't pay. In my eyes this was one option of paying ones debt for both sides from the start of the bet and should not lead to further actions like the open letters to remove him from certain operations etc.
MNW's posts were to be taken with a grain of salt and the SCAMMER flag now makes that very clear to all new people. Now calm down and carry on.

[SaltySpitoon]

Yes, I think so. It was pretty shitty of him to do it, and he defaulted on a large bet, and deserves a scammer tag. But, people, feel free to be pissed, but god dammit stop making new threads every 10 minutes about the same thing.

[bitplane]

If I had bet against him I would be furious, as I'm a man of my word and would have paid up if I'd lost.

What a piece of shit.

[adamstgBit]

lol why is anyone pissed?

everyone knew he wasn't going to pay up.
no one lost money.
and he got the scammer tag.

probably a lot of people's bets were for 10 times more bitcoin then they actually had, you know just for the off chance that MWN is retarded and did pay out.

[cbeast]

I can't believe how many people don't get what he did. Pirateat40's pyramid scheme was a scam to begin with. Whe it defaulted (let me show you my shocked face), Matthew tried to show you how easy it is to fool you suckers without actually taking any of your money, and yet you still don't get it. Hey scammers! There are still plenty of fish in here!

I think Matthew cares about the scammers tag as much as anyone cares that HE HAS PUT BITCOIN MAGAZINE IN BOOKSTORES!

[nimda]

lol why is anyone pissed?

everyone knew he wasn't going to pay up.
no one lost money.
and he got the scammer tag.

probably a lot of people's bets were for 10 times more bitcoin then they actually had, you know just for the off chance that MWN is retarded and did pay out.

I bet (heh) that people did lose money.

1. Investor notices the bet thread
2. Investor notices TYGRR-BOND-P is trading at 0.1 BTC
3. Investor buys 1 share
4. Investor bets 1 BTC
5. MNW exposes the "loophole"
6. Investor is forced to sell his share again, at a loss of 0.04 BTC.

Just because MNW didn't gain doesn't mean others didn't lose. If I break your window, neither of us gain. I'd still be an asshole though, especially if there's no recourse you have against me.

[JoelKatz]

no one lost money.

Actually, people did lose money. Matthew's bet pushed the price of Pirate debt up. And some people acquired Pirate debt to hedge against the risk that Matthew would win his bet.

[LoupGaroux]

Wow. Are their really people willing to acquire pirate debt? That's making a market in empty promises if ever there was.

[JoelKatz]

Wow. Are their really people willing to acquire pirate debt? That's making a market in empty promises if ever there was.

I firmly believe that Matthew's bet distorted the secondary market in Pirate debt and caused some people to defer selling Pirate debt that would have reduced their losses, some people bought Pirate debt at a much higher price than it was worth (either to hedge against the risk that Matthew would win or because they thought Matthew knew something they didn't), and possibly even allowed Pirate to sell his own debt for longer at higher prices and thereby steal additional funds from the community.

[amencon]

People on this board have white-knighted for every scammy fuck that's come through so I'm not surprised this time is any different.

Would some of the people on the other side of the bet most likely have also reneged on payment? Irrelevant.
Was it pretty obvious that he wasn't going to pay out close to a million dollars? Irrelevant.

It was also obvious that investing with "pirate" would be a VERY risky investment.  That doesn't absolve the perpetrator for scamming people.  You can think the victims are dumb AND also acknowledge that the person that defrauded or deceived them is a piece of shit.

Acting like the bet was some masterstroke of genius and imparted some critical lesson for all involved is laughable.

I didn't invest with pirate and I didn't bet with Matt.  The fact that their deceptions were poorly constructed doesn't stop me from recognizing that they are untrustworthy douche-bag scammers.

Nah just kidding guys, it's totally cool when people break their contracts and promises as long as they are the type of people you should expect that from.

[Portnoy]

People on this board have white-knighted for every scammy fuck that's come through so I'm not surprised this time is any different.

Would some of the people on the other side of the bet most likely have also reneged on payment? Irrelevant.
Was it pretty obvious that he wasn't going to pay out close to a million dollars? Irrelevant.

It was also obvious that investing with "pirate" would be a VERY risky investment.  That doesn't absolve the perpetrator for scamming people.  You can think the victims are dumb AND also acknowledge that the person that defrauded or deceived them is a piece of shit.

Acting like the bet was some masterstroke of genius and imparted some critical lesson for all involved is laughable.

I didn't invest with pirate and I didn't bet with Matt.  The fact that their deceptions were poorly constructed doesn't stop me from recognizing that they are untrustworthy douche-bag scammers.

Nah just kidding guys, it's totally cool when people break their contracts and promises as long as they are the type of people you should expect that from.

+1

[bitcoiners]

People on this board have white-knighted for every scammy fuck that's come through so I'm not surprised this time is any different.

Would some of the people on the other side of the bet most likely have also reneged on payment? Irrelevant.
Was it pretty obvious that he wasn't going to pay out close to a million dollars? Irrelevant.

It was also obvious that investing with "pirate" would be a VERY risky investment.  That doesn't absolve the perpetrator for scamming people.  You can think the victims are dumb AND also acknowledge that the person that defrauded or deceived them is a piece of shit.

Acting like the bet was some masterstroke of genius and imparted some critical lesson for all involved is laughable.

I didn't invest with pirate and I didn't bet with Matt.  The fact that their deceptions were poorly constructed doesn't stop me from recognizing that they are untrustworthy douche-bag scammers.

Nah just kidding guys, it's totally cool when people break their contracts and promises as long as they are the type of people you should expect that from.

+1

[DeathAndTaxes]

MNW offered to take the scammer tag if he doesn't pay. In my eyes this was one option of paying ones debt for both sides from the start of the bet and should not lead to further actions like the open letters to remove him from certain operations etc.
MNW's posts were to be taken with a grain of salt and the SCAMMER flag now makes that very clear to all new people. Now calm down and carry on.

I am calm and I didn't take the bet.  This is about risk management.  The scammer tag alerts others to the risk involved in dealing with Matt.  He has demonstrated his word means absolutely nothing and as such shouldn't be relied upon.

Matt seems to believe that just because people shouldn't trust the word of a Pirate offering 3,400% interest they shouldn't trust the word of anyone.  The reality is all commerce requires some level of trust.  If you send a merchant funds you need to trust they will deliver.  If you deposit funds on an exchange you need to trust they won't walk away with it.  Even if you do all your commerce in persons (i.e. OTC) you need to trust the other party won't simply rob you.

As Matt is the editor in chief (and equity stake holder) in the magazine, his actions and lack of ethics reflect badly on the magazine.    Either the other owners condone that sort of unethical behavior, or the other owners lack the risk management to see the liability that Matt represents.  Either way that influences my decision to do business with them.  I am not "angry" or "heated".  It is business.  A large component of business is trusting the people/entities you partner with.   Sometimes it just comes down to a subjective judgement (gut feeling).  Someone looking to buy advertising space in the magazine is taking a risk.  Business is all about calculated risks and Matt's reckless, and irresponsible behavior increases the risk for others looking to engage in commerce with any business he is involved in.

If Matt is removed from the magazine he is still reckless and irresponsible but that risk no longer affects the magazine.  If he remains with the magazine that risk remains with the magazine.  
If the other owners of the magazine decide not to remove Matt well that is their right but there are consequences.  It isn't about punishing Matt, it is risk management.  The magazine is riskier because he is a part of it.

[evoorhees]

People on this board have white-knighted for every scammy fuck that's come through so I'm not surprised this time is any different.

Would some of the people on the other side of the bet most likely have also reneged on payment? Irrelevant.
Was it pretty obvious that he wasn't going to pay out close to a million dollars? Irrelevant.

It was also obvious that investing with "pirate" would be a VERY risky investment.  That doesn't absolve the perpetrator for scamming people.  You can think the victims are dumb AND also acknowledge that the person that defrauded or deceived them is a piece of shit.

Acting like the bet was some masterstroke of genius and imparted some critical lesson for all involved is laughable.

I didn't invest with pirate and I didn't bet with Matt.  The fact that their deceptions were poorly constructed doesn't stop me from recognizing that they are untrustworthy douche-bag scammers.

Nah just kidding guys, it's totally cool when people break their contracts and promises as long as they are the type of people you should expect that from.

+1

[DeathAndTaxes]

People on this board have white-knighted for every scammy fuck that's come through so I'm not surprised this time is any different.

...

Nah just kidding guys, it's totally cool when people break their contracts and promises as long as they are the type of people you should expect that from.

I would point out that it is useful information to look at the persons defending Matt and their arguments.  It provides an insight into their thought processes and a good reason to avoid doing business with them.  Those defending him are saying it is ok to lie, cheat, and break agreements as long as funds don't change hands.  Those aren't the kind of people I would want to be involved in a trade with.

[JoelKatz]

I would point out that it is useful information to look at the persons defending Matt and their arguments.  It provides an insight into their thought processes and a good reason to avoid doing business with them.  Those defending him are saying it is ok to lie, cheat, and break agreements as long as funds don't change hands.  Those aren't the kind of people I would want to be involved in a trade with.

+3

[bitcoiners]

People on this board have white-knighted for every scammy fuck that's come through so I'm not surprised this time is any different.

...

Nah just kidding guys, it's totally cool when people break their contracts and promises as long as they are the type of people you should expect that from.

I would point out that it is useful information to look at the persons defending Matt and their arguments.  It provides an insight into their thought processes and a good reason to avoid doing business with them.  Those defending him are saying it is ok to lie, cheat, and break agreements as long as funds don't change hands.  Those aren't the kind of people I would want to be involved in a trade with.

Agreed.

I have every single one of these asshats on ignore right now.  I will not be doing business with people like that.  People are showing their true colors today and for what?  A scammer? lol.

[muyuu]

People on this board have white-knighted for every scammy fuck that's come through so I'm not surprised this time is any different.

...

Nah just kidding guys, it's totally cool when people break their contracts and promises as long as they are the type of people you should expect that from.

I would point out that it is useful information to look at the persons defending Matt and their arguments.  It provides an insight into their thought processes and a good reason to avoid doing business with them.  Those defending him are saying it is ok to lie, cheat, and break agreements as long as funds don't change hands.  Those aren't the kind of people I would want to be involved in a trade with.

This is absolutely true. Especially the last part. Some people simply seem to have a complete lack of respect for agreements and promises, and their thought processes show not only in their own dealings, but in those of others as well.

[Rassah]

I can't believe how many people don't get what he did. Pirateat40's pyramid scheme was a scam to begin with. Whe it defaulted (let me show you my shocked face), Matthew tried to show you how easy it is to fool you suckers without actually taking any of your money, and yet you still don't get it. Hey scammers! There are still plenty of fish in here!

I think Matthew cares about the scammers tag as much as anyone cares that HE HAS PUT BITCOIN MAGAZINE IN BOOKSTORES!

But he wasn't targeting people who were fooled by Pitareat40's scam, he was "fooling" people who were warning other fools about risky investment schemes. And by "fooling" I mean telling people to put up money on an almost certain bet without actually risking any of it. If his intention was to show how easy it is to fool people, he failed. I doubt anyone who was calling Pirate a Ponzi would have actually bet anything if there was any actual risk involved.

[FreeMoney]

I would point out that it is useful information to look at the persons defending Matt and their arguments.  It provides an insight into their thought processes and a good reason to avoid doing business with them.  Those defending him are saying it is ok to lie, cheat, and break agreements as long as funds don't change hands.  Those aren't the kind of people I would want to be involved in a trade with.

+1