Increase block size or increase fees?

[fairglu]

Back to the blunt technicalities: what happens if the block size does not grow?

• more memory usage (ever growing mempool, ie. the list of unconfirmed tx each node maintains)
• more network bandwidth (unconfirmed tx keep getting flown around and resubmitted)
• more double spends (from resubmitted tx that occasionally go through)
• increasing fees (pools trying to deal with the above, and treat any tx without enough fee as spam)

Why? because people with unconfirmed tx would just keep re-submitting and spam, as that's the most effective technique to get *your* transaction through in a congested traffic situation, just like elbowing is the most effective technique to get through a crowd.

Yes, it would be selfish, but it would still happen.

Let's face it: limiting block size will NOT reduce network contention or make running nodes lighter.
Only reduced bitcoin usage would, and increasing fees would achieve that.

So basically the two options today are to either do something and increase block size, or do nothing and let fees rise.



edit: just to be clear, I am for the block-size increase, I am just outlining the only possible consequence of NOT increasing block size, and that is a fee increase.

[sandy47bt]

One of bitcoin goal is for manage micro-transaction, so if bitcoin fees is increased.
I would use fiat again

[Agestorzrxx]

Sure. We should increase the size of the blocks. We can't wait the day when the block size is saturated.
This day will finally happened. The key is can we never do this again?

[Amph]

you can't be serious on increase the fees, when bitcoin is one of the only methods of transfering money with a very low amount of fees

just undo the limit of 1MB and restore the previous 30mb or something, it was around that at the beginning

[NyeFe]

With the troubles you already have to go through to obtain bitcoins, if the fees increased it would be absolutely pointless to convince any consumer to waste time & money purchasing them, whilst they could easily use PayPal

[Zorrocoin]

I would rather go with block size increase. The more daily txs , the faster adoption.And I think online full nodes should be rewarded for a small fee. I dont know how it can be achieved w/o fork. But the cost of fully working bitcoin node is increasing due to system requirements.( blockchain storage +min. memory +electricity etc)

On the other hand, I believe increasing fees has no positive effect on bitcoin ecosystem. Actually it harms to it.

[Pursuer]

I think increasing fees now would have a negative effect on bitcoin. there are a lot of micro transactions and arebeing done with bitcoin, in case of fee increase those would not be logical to do.
but it is going to happen in the future if the price don't start rising again or miners would stop mining.

[fairglu]

I am also for block size increase, clarified that in the OP.

Not increasing block size means increasing the fees and reduced bitcoin usage.

Just laying it out outside of the pro/anti Gavin troll wars. The blockchain size increase is inevitable if you want increased usage.

> The key is can we never do this again?

Planned growth like Gavin suggested is a reasonable option, but TBH I am not convinced having a blocksize limit is necessary anymore:

• the difficulty means its hard to get a block, including getting a very huge very spammy block
• propagating a very huge very spammy block would be slow, so it would likely be orphaned quite quickly

There only needs to be a mechanism in a full node to "forget" orphaned blocks at some point, say after 100 or 1000 blocks, so that even if a huge spammy block got through, it won't take disk space long after having been orphaned.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

you can't be serious on increase the fees, when bitcoin is one of the only methods of transfering money with a very low amount of fees

just undo the limit of 1MB and restore the previous 30mb or something, it was around that at the beginning

I think the original limit was increased in purpose because at he beginning 30mb was delivering a lot of problems, or that's what I got from reading some of the satoshi posts.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Increase block size. I recntly got these two links and it summed up well.

Gavin's blog posts - http://gavinandresen.ninja/time-to-roll-out-bigger-blocks.

If you prefer a visual explanation, here's a plot of block sizes over time:

[anderson00673]

Bigger block size is the obvious solution.  Higher fees might reduce congestion, but the fees would likely turn many off to bitcoin.  Problem solved? Sort of but the goal should be more people using bitcoins not less.  And higher fees only means one thing: less people using it and less people jumping on the bandwagon.

[spud21]

Bigger block size is the obvious solution.  Higher fees might reduce congestion, but the fees would likely turn many off to bitcoin.  Problem solved? Sort of but the goal should be more people using bitcoins not less.  And higher fees only means one thing: less people using it and less people jumping on the bandwagon.

Gavin says he wants bigger blocks so Bitcoin can handle as many transactions a year as Visa. Increased fees will make that impossible and stop Bitcoin competing with credit/debit cards.

[BusyBeaverHP]

Increase fees?

Well then, 99% of prospective newcomers will find another solution that isn't Bitcoin while we're left to play amongst ourselves.

[jeannemadrigal2]

Increase block size.  This is what I voted for and I think it is the best solution.  If anyone can think of an idea that is better and/or easier I urge you to start a thread so we can discuss it.  This is a great and talented community and I would not be surprised if someone came up with a good alternative.

[MicroGuy]

Bigger block size is the obvious solution.  Higher fees might reduce congestion, but the fees would likely turn many off to bitcoin.  Problem solved? Sort of but the goal should be more people using bitcoins not less.  And higher fees only means one thing: less people using it and less people jumping on the bandwagon.

Yes. Anyone against the bigger blocks needs an ego adjustment. Gavin is our chosen leader, now let him do what leaders do -- Lead!

[subSTRATA]

I would have to agree that increasing the block size is the best solution; even though id rather just sit by and watch the "gavin this gavin that fork this fork that" drama unfold, i still have to agree the block size should e increased at some point in the future to facilitate the growth of bitcoin.

[iCEBREAKER]

The true value that Bitcoin brings to the table is not "everyone gets to write into the holy ledger", it is instead "everyone gets to benefit from sane and non-inflationary financial instutions whose sanity and honesty are ensured by the holy blockchain".
-davout

It's easy to support 'more free transactions' when others are bearing the externalized costs.

[pooya87]

if the only option is choosing between the two, i would say increase the block size without a doubt.
right now is not a good time to increase the fees. if the fees are increased now, new users will not even consider bitcoin as a means for payment.

[iCEBREAKER]

if the only option is choosing between the two, i would say increase the block size without a doubt.
right now is not a good time to increase the fees. if the fees are increased now, new users will not even consider bitcoin as a means for payment.

Yes, new users will reject paying the cost of a postage stamp for high Bitcoin priority, and instead return to slow, expensive, invasive Western Union/Paypal transfers.

Oh wait, that doesn't make any sense.   

[alch1mista]

You don't need to increase blocksize if you spread transactions across some altcoins as well.
The market should be more competitive, all the money goes through bitcoin now: you could avoid centralizing it by spreading across smaller currencies.