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Author Topic: Smoking gun of the world system?  (Read 1504 times)
BobK71
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June 03, 2015, 10:03:38 AM
 #1

Just heard on the radio Benjamin Lawsky, of the NY Dept. of Financial Services who is credited with levying big fines on banks after the financial crisis.

He pretty much came out and said the only possible reason the federal government didn't prosecute any individual bankers was that it didn't want to (and with no reason that he can discern.)

This would seem to be compatible with the theory that the world is run by a grand coalition of the political and financial elites.  The state nurtures the financial sector because it needs it to help prop up the money and debt issued by the state, by inventing financial assets to suck up the supply of these base assets.

So the really important deals (like this one) are hammered out behind closed doors, without input from people like Lawsky, never mind the public.  Read the new book "Fragile by Design" and it becomes pretty clear.
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June 03, 2015, 11:43:06 AM
 #2

Well, I don't like all such conspiracy theories. There is no world coalition who rules the world. I would not say, that there isn't a group who tries to reach it, but the world is so complex and it needs so many actors that it is not possible.
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June 03, 2015, 01:24:03 PM
 #3

Well, I don't like all such conspiracy theories. There is no world coalition who rules the world. I would not say, that there isn't a group who tries to reach it, but the world is so complex and it needs so many actors that it is not possible.

IF 12 families own 60% of ALL OF THE STOCKS..

comment?
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June 03, 2015, 02:15:38 PM
 #4

Well, I don't like all such conspiracy theories. There is no world coalition who rules the world. I would not say, that there isn't a group who tries to reach it, but the world is so complex and it needs so many actors that it is not possible.
There is a very big coalition who rules the world by fiat money system. A coalition I'm talking about very well mentioned by M. Rothbard "Anatomy of the State" article. It is not a conspiracy theory. It is reality. And yes this big coalition also confuse people's minds by promoting the 12 families or Illuminati conspiracies. They are (statists) very successful to design societies by manipulation.

US options trader and ancap
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June 03, 2015, 02:56:18 PM
 #5

Well, if you do prosecute the top management of banks, think of how the market would react.
You would be creating the very shocks that you have been trying hard to avoid.


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June 03, 2015, 05:26:07 PM
 #6

...

Well, here are my thoughts on two issues raised in this thread -- nicely done, BobK71.

1)  Very true that NO ONE of significance has been thrown in jail during and since the Financial Crisis (2007 - now).  That is very telling and very troubling.  There are indeed people TBTJ (Too Big To Jail).  The 0.01% (the latest buzz-number re the very rich and very powerful) has gotten quite rich, while everyone else has had stagnating (or worse) incomes in recent years.

2)  It may be that a number smaller than the 0.01% I mentioned above "control" the financial system.  But, these guys are NOT united.  They are broken into factions, IMO.  Yes, they have an interest in keeping "getting wealthy" more difficult by outsiders, but they have a lot of infighting and such differing views (political, economic) as well as different levels of energy and knowledge that thinking of them as monolithic is a mistake.

*   *   *

-- The 0.01% (roughly) control huge amounts of wealth

-- The next 10% or so control most of the rest, some of them depend on serving the 0.01%

-- The bottom 80% or so have great challenges in getting wealthy.  Yet I believe that it can be done by most (Americans anyway).  By doing it the old-fashioned way:

a) Stay in school, get that degree (or certification in a trade)
b) Do not have children before you get married
c) Do not quit ANY job until you have a better one all lined up.

a, b and c are enough (can be hard and take a long time though) to allow any American to attain "The American Dream" (a reasonable middle class lifestyle) barring aberrant behavior and/or bad luck.  Again, to do all of that requires sacrifice and hard work over a long period.  Sacrifice and hard work for long periods are not trendy now...


EDIT: d) Stay out of debt too (or keep it low)!
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June 03, 2015, 06:02:03 PM
 #7

Well, I don't like all such conspiracy theories. There is no world coalition who rules the world. I would not say, that there isn't a group who tries to reach it, but the world is so complex and it needs so many actors that it is not possible.

Im no theory conspiration guy myself, but as someone pointed out, 12 families own most of the wealth in this world which is insane. Sure, Bitcoin is distributed in a similar fashion, couple guys im sure that own shittons of BTC, but the edge on fiat is, the BTC system cannot be modified, while they can create money out of thin air. The Bitcoin whales will never be able to modify the supply at their expense.
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June 03, 2015, 06:07:16 PM
 #8

One of the 12 families is already in a documentary, its in a netflix.

Outside from the rockerfellers, its the rothschild that owns almost everything. Its the 1% of the top 1%.

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June 03, 2015, 07:23:15 PM
 #9

Well, I don't like all such conspiracy theories. There is no world coalition who rules the world. I would not say, that there isn't a group who tries to reach it, but the world is so complex and it needs so many actors that it is not possible.

Im no theory conspiration guy myself, but as someone pointed out, 12 families own most of the wealth in this world which is insane. Sure, Bitcoin is distributed in a similar fashion, couple guys im sure that own shittons of BTC, but the edge on fiat is, the BTC system cannot be modified, while they can create money out of thin air. The Bitcoin whales will never be able to modify the supply at their expense.

If anything, they could easily buy the entire bitcoin supply.

And they still would be okay, if the bitcoin failed on them. they own like more then 1 monopolies. They even named roads after them..

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June 03, 2015, 07:28:38 PM
 #10

Well, I don't like all such conspiracy theories. There is no world coalition who rules the world. I would not say, that there isn't a group who tries to reach it, but the world is so complex and it needs so many actors that it is not possible.

Im no theory conspiration guy myself, but as someone pointed out, 12 families own most of the wealth in this world which is insane. Sure, Bitcoin is distributed in a similar fashion, couple guys im sure that own shittons of BTC, but the edge on fiat is, the BTC system cannot be modified, while they can create money out of thin air. The Bitcoin whales will never be able to modify the supply at their expense.

If anything, they could easily buy the entire bitcoin supply.

And they still would be okay, if the bitcoin failed on them. they own like more then 1 monopolies. They even named roads after them..

No.... they easily could not..

This is why Bitcoin is so amazing.  This if the first thing the 1% of the 1% have not had an Iron grip on for thousands of years.  YES THOUSANDS...

They do have a grip on it however and it is strenghtening.
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June 03, 2015, 09:21:28 PM
 #11

I agree with,politics and financial sector it is kind of coalition,Lawsky is very inteligent man and great bitcoin advocate.Now there ischange on horizon in Europe,European citzenship movement is rising,but nationalist movement is also rising,so there islso a conflict  .MrPutin is playingon that,together with debt crisis it is preety dangerous
But that what EBC is doing with EU economy ,printing 60BLN euro per month,that is crime,look to me like organised crime

 
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June 03, 2015, 11:54:21 PM
 #12

Well, I don't like all such conspiracy theories. There is no world coalition who rules the world. I would not say, that there isn't a group who tries to reach it, but the world is so complex and it needs so many actors that it is not possible.

Im no theory conspiration guy myself, but as someone pointed out, 12 families own most of the wealth in this world which is insane. Sure, Bitcoin is distributed in a similar fashion, couple guys im sure that own shittons of BTC, but the edge on fiat is, the BTC system cannot be modified, while they can create money out of thin air. The Bitcoin whales will never be able to modify the supply at their expense.

Bitcoin distribution is far from what we know "fair", but how can we have a monetary system that is fair? And what is fairness? Because even if it sucks if you are not an early adopter, it's far that those that took the higher risks (super early adopters buying BTC when it was literally worthless) get the highest rewards. For me is the most fair monetary system ever. And that is coin distribution, the rules are the same for everyone, unlike fiat currencies, where everyone is involved into the scams and rigging of the very fundamentals of the system.
~20% of US senators are tribesman. The Fed is like 60%, including most of the last few chairmen (er, chairpersons). You've got AIPAC and the lobby controlling much of our ME policies. Large swathes of the media are also under their purview (Sulzbergers at the NY Times, all the networks, CNN, even Ailes at Fox (who are staunchly pro-Israel & neo-con, if right-leaning on financial issues) + all of Hollywood.

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June 04, 2015, 08:39:06 AM
 #13

It isn't a conspiracy theory that Goldman Sachs basically runs the USA government.  Why did no one go to jail?  Hank Paulson was CEO when Goldman was making all of these derivatives and then betting against them with AIG.  Who got appointed to government to oversee the crisis?  Paulson.   Look at who is appointed to what, and if it is a financial position it is usually held by a former goldman guy.

So yeah, Paulson isn't going to send himself to jail.  If you want to see a really good documentary on the subject check out "Inside Job."  It is a really good film, but also frustrating to watch.  And this is a global problem not just a USA problem.
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June 06, 2015, 02:02:41 AM
 #14

Quote from: Merriam-Webster link=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy
democracy
1  b :  a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
Quote from: Merriam-Webster link=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plutocracy
plutocracy
1  :  government by the wealthy

You write as if plutocracy were republican democracy.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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June 06, 2015, 02:21:55 AM
 #15

It isn't a conspiracy theory that Goldman Sachs basically runs the USA government.  Why did no one go to jail?  Hank Paulson was CEO when Goldman was making all of these derivatives and then betting against them with AIG.  Who got appointed to government to oversee the crisis?  Paulson.   Look at who is appointed to what, and if it is a financial position it is usually held by a former goldman guy.

So yeah, Paulson isn't going to send himself to jail.  If you want to see a really good documentary on the subject check out "Inside Job."  It is a really good film, but also frustrating to watch.  And this is a global problem not just a USA problem.

In developing countries, it is corrupt politicians and their relatives who screw the system and manage to get away. In the US, it seems to be Goldman Sachs employees. If public opinion is so strong against these guys, what prevents the government from doing a clean up job?


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June 06, 2015, 02:40:27 AM
 #16

...

aso118

The government will not do a clean-up job re Goldman Sachs, AIG, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, etc.  Because these huge financial institutions have LOTS of power, $$$, and influence in the political system.

Actually, username18333 put it rather nicely showing the definition just above of plutocracy: rule by the rich.  To a degree this has almost always been true, someone after all always winds up on top, those on the bottom get screwed.  Even in the purported Socialist and Communist countries, the powerful always got the goodies from the rest.

Public opinion only matters in extreme cases.  We are not there yet.
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June 06, 2015, 04:40:06 AM
 #17

...

aso118

The government will not do a clean-up job re Goldman Sachs, AIG, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, etc.  Because these huge financial institutions have LOTS of power, $$$, and influence in the political system.

Actually, username18333 put it rather nicely showing the definition just above of plutocracy: rule by the rich.  To a degree this has almost always been true, someone after all always winds up on top, those on the bottom get screwed.  Even in the purported Socialist and Communist countries, the powerful always got the goodies from the rest.

Public opinion only matters in extreme cases.  We are not there yet.
Well said. I just want to add that people who are oblivious enough not to see connection between elites in power and top branches of political and financial institutions are being simply blind.
Everything is connected, these people knows eachother, system is working fine. Even after serious crisis like that economic collapse in 2008 people responsible for this are not being prosecuted and never will be.


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June 06, 2015, 07:27:26 AM
 #18

It isn't a conspiracy theory that Goldman Sachs basically runs the USA government.  Why did no one go to jail?  Hank Paulson was CEO when Goldman was making all of these derivatives and then betting against them with AIG.  Who got appointed to government to oversee the crisis?  Paulson.   Look at who is appointed to what, and if it is a financial position it is usually held by a former goldman guy.

So yeah, Paulson isn't going to send himself to jail.  If you want to see a really good documentary on the subject check out "Inside Job."  It is a really good film, but also frustrating to watch.  And this is a global problem not just a USA problem.

In developing countries, it is corrupt politicians and their relatives who screw the system and manage to get away. In the US, it seems to be Goldman Sachs employees. If public opinion is so strong against these guys, what prevents the government from doing a clean up job?

Because the government is run by these guys.  Almost all politicians are taking bribes from them.  And it is not just in developing countries that corrupt politicians and their relatives screw the system.  The average person in the usa exists in a suburban bliss and does not look too far outside of their little communities.  When I tell people what has been done they look at me like I am saying I was abducted by space aliens or something.  Its embarrassing sometimes.

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June 06, 2015, 10:29:17 AM
 #19

Sorry guys, I've been busy for a few days.  After reading all your replies, here are a few thoughts of mine, partially to clarify what I might have missed explaining clearly:

- The one thing I thought few people understand (even in this forum or among the super-educated or super-rich) is that the state needs the banks.  Most people who follow the news know that banks need the state (to prop them up with taxpayer money, to apply loose regulation, etc.) but the state needs the banks to prop up state-issued money and debt.  This is key.  Many people think that if the government would just take back the power and wealth from the banks, all would be fine.  The truth is that it doesn't want to, unless the public wakes up.

- I don't believe there's necessarily a conspiracy in the conventional sense.  This "conspiracy" runs on power and lack of public awareness, and not primarily on secrecy.  As one reply mentioned, at best it's a loosely connected group with diverse loyalties and opinions, too big for any conventional conspiracy.  But this doesn't mean that the most important elites can't coalesce (more or less) around a key issue from time to time.  Two things immediately come to mind to illustrate this:

    1. Before the collapse of 2008, no one of great importance from the political and financial world warned the public.

    2. For decades before 2008, people had been using money market funds as if they were as safe as bank deposits (most of which is backed by deposit insurance in the West.)  No one of importance warned that there is absolutely no legal or public guarantees for these funds, until the crisis broke and one fund couldn't pay out 100 cents on the dollar (whereupon the Fed declared unlimited support for these funds.)

- If we are to have any hope of fixing our system, we have to understand the basic shape of this (loose) alliance, and also understand that, as a democratic public, we are actually at the center of the problems, and also have a lot of power.
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June 06, 2015, 02:29:43 PM
 #20

Well, I don't like all such conspiracy theories. There is no world coalition who rules the world. I would not say, that there isn't a group who tries to reach it, but the world is so complex and it needs so many actors that it is not possible.

IF 12 families own 60% of ALL OF THE STOCKS..

comment?

Well the only way to remedy that is if the rest of the population wake up and storm the Bilderberg Group yearly summit. That's where all the lizard families have a hangout to see what they will do with us little people next and where they will create the next wars etc. If everyone is too busy watching the Kardashians and every other shitty reality show we won't see much change just yet sigh.

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