Illegal Migrant Crisis in Mediterraean

[Daniel91]

Illegal Migrant Crisis in Mediterraean is actually a result of hunger and poverty in Africa and the desperation of those people because they don't have any perspective in their native countries.
What is the solution to this problem?
Raise impenetrable wall around Europe and stop all immigrants?
Bring back those immigrants who have so far managed to enter Europe?
Is it a Europe of freedom and democracy or Europe of exclusiveness and intolerance?
I think that we have a moral obligation to help those poor people and provide them a second home in European countries, and a new chance for life.
Otherwise, this is not the Europe in which I want to live, selfish Europe, which thinks only of himself.

[1714881913]

1714881913

[1714881913]

1714881913

[Okurkabinladin]

Daniel,

yes, hunger and desperation. Thats why these young black men (who form 85% of the migrant group) pay up to 10 000 dollars to smugglers and border guards to enter Europe, thats why they spite on refugee camps in places like Italy, Hungary and even France (those countries lack welfare system of northern Europe). Because they are desperate and hungry 

But we can agree on one thing. Old continent isnt place you want to live in. Instead you should as a free and good man take destiny into your own hands and go to some place good. Go to Africa and make their desperate and hungry lives better. Thats what man would do, not try to take Europes weakest (sick, old and children) as hostages.

[Daniel91]

You should understand that they sold their own houses and all properties in order to collect money for this trip.
In many of these countries are wars and much violence and people can not return.
This is not a simple black and white story that can be easily solved.
Europe may not be the ideal continent for life but is much safer and better place to live than Africa.

[bryant.coleman]

You should understand that they sold their own houses and all properties in order to collect money for this trip.
In many of these countries are wars and much violence and people can not return.

Who told them to sell their houses and property? And don't lie about the warfare thing. Most of these immigrants come from countries such as Gambia, Senegal, Ghana, Nigeria.etc. As far as I know, no war is going on there. Europe is already full of migrants. More than 10% of the population is composed of migrants and their descendants. I don't think that the continent can take anymore migrants.

[Okurkabinladin]

You should understand that they sold their own houses and all properties in order to collect money for this trip.
In many of these countries are wars and much violence and people can not return.
This is not a simple black and white story that can be easily solved.
Europe may not be the ideal continent for life but is much safer and better place to live than Africa.

They are adults, nobody forced them to sell their properties or get indebted in order to feed organized crime of smuggling.

Europe has 550 million of inhabitants, half of those have work/income. Africa alone has 1.1 billion, South Asia another 2.5 billion. By mid century Africa will have 2.7 billion of people, while Europes will slightly decline. There are 80 million of people born under the poverty line every year.

Of course we bear no responsibility for them (as they do bear no for us), they are adults, but lets say we want to help them. HOW? By turning old continent and our legacy into another Africa? Numbers speak for themselves, we cannot solve problems of neighbours by importing fraction of those problems into our homes.

Furthermore, how many of these refugees did you take care for so far? People advocating "open door policy" in my country are without exception people, who hadnt worked in their life or those financially interested in migrant bussiness (mafia and activists receiving tax payers money for "integrating" migrants).

[bryant.coleman]

Europe has 550 million of inhabitants, half of those have work/income. Africa alone has 1.1 billion, South Asia another 2.5 billion. By mid century Africa will have 2.7 billion of people, while Europes will slightly decline. There are 80 million of people born under the poverty line every year.

Some 100 years ago, Africa had a population of 133 million, and Europe had a population of 408 million. Currently, the African population is 1,111 million, while that of Europe is 742.5 million. During the past 100 years, the African population has grown by 735%, while the same for Europe is 82%. And the projected population for Africa is 4,200 million in 2100. These figures speak for themselves.

[Okurkabinladin]

Bryant,

exactly and even then you are quite generous as you count among "Europes population" countries, that arent members of EU (Russia, Ukraine, perhaps Turkey). Germany, Europes most populous country has 80 million inhabitants (20% are already of migrant background). Thats less, than Ethiopia or Egypt and less, than half of Nigerias.

[bryant.coleman]

exactly and even then you are quite generous as you count among "Europes population" countries, that arent members of EU (Russia, Ukraine, perhaps Turkey). Germany, Europes most populous country has 80 million inhabitants (20% are already of migrant background). Thats less, than Ethiopia or Egypt and less, than half of Nigerias.

Hmm... I checked again, and found that the EU population, as of now is 503 million. By 2100, Nigeria alone will be having a population of 914 million. The people, who advocate for open borders policy are quite retarded. There is no way, the EU can accommodate 4 billion extra people by 2100. There is simply no space, as the surface area is just 4.4 million sq.km.

[countryfree]

I'm not expecting the present situation to last long as this is raising popularity of the far right. Since elections are never far away in Italy, Renzi will have to act to keep moderate voters behind him.

[Okurkabinladin]

I'm not expecting the present situation to last long as this is raising popularity of the far right. Since elections are never far away in Italy, Renzi will have to act to keep moderate voters behind him.

Renzi, just did act "moderate". He annouced, that, if mandatory migrant quotas are not accepted by other countries, Italy will give free euro visa to everybody, who so far entered the country. Italian state will by this act alone, effectively legalize trans-med human trafficking and any sort of semblance of border control and security for its partners in Europe. No so long ago, this would be act of terrorism and reason for declaration of war.

I am for cancelling of Shengen and putting troops and militias on borders. As are 85% of my compatriots right now.

[pureelite]

This year, aprox. 600 000 new asylum seekers are expected on EU borders, analysts already predict perhaps one million next year. This is nothing new, for years thousands were migrating towards Europe, searching refugee, better life or just piece of its welfare system. However current crisis is unlike any other for following reasons.

- Western Europe has been trying (and failing) its romance with multiculturalism for decades now, integration of millions of its "new citizens" has to large degree failed as we can see in cities such as Malmö, London, Paris, Calais or suburbs of Berlin. Letting in one million of foreigners with completely different value system every year might be just irresponsible.

- As direct result of the above, euro comitee now wants binding quota, that would force smaller countries to also take in refugees - this of course disregards the fact, that new member states such as Poland or Czech republic already took care for tens of thousands Ukrainians, Vietnamese and Roma. That just doesnt count.

- In most progressive countries such as Sweden or Austria, even small towns are now forced to take in migrants under the threat of government sanctions. In Austria, every town has to take in atleast 1 migrant per 266 inhabitants, in Sweden it is 1 migrant per 300 inhabitants.

- As result of the state sponsored multiculturalism (which all but replaced religion in northern-western Europe), any criticism of either immigration or Islam is seen as criminal offense in Sweden, starting from 1/1/2015.

- Cant speak for westerners, however in my country (Czech republic), 92% of population is against the quota and for self-determination and voluntary help. Regardless, local goverment already assured its citizens, that quota will be accepted in the future, it is only question when.

- Current euro asylum system is quite motivating for people smugglers (who already take aprox. 6000 dollars per migrant, before they allow them to board their ships). Recent tactics, is to throw (!) passengers overboard, when ship from some european nation appears on horizon, forcing the euro crew to rush to rescue. Job done, money already received.

- In places such as southern Italy, large mobs of visitors were leaving detention camps, occupying buildings, throwing out inhabitants if any were found inside. All areas heavily hit by migration start to heavily resemble Detroit.

- In northern France drivers and policemen are frequently attacked for preventing migrants to cross La Manche into the Britain - and its welfare system. Along with the fact, that 80% of these people are young men under the age of 30, it begs the question: Is their absolute majority fleeing from something or rushing towards it?

- Main donor countries: Kosovo, Eritrea, Nigeria, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia. Rich and culturally close countries (Saudi Arabia, Quatar, UAE) refuse to take them in. Countries responsible for unrest in middle East (vast majority of them english speaking) also do not take them in.
 
I ask for civil discussion on the matter. Thank you.

It is quite hard for people to accept strangers, and especially strangers who come into your home. We must embrace them for they have suffered, we must help them in any way possible, but we must keep in mind that their numbers must stay within reasonable limits.

[Okurkabinladin]

Pureelite,

not sure, if you are trolling or not. Nobody accepts strangers, who come to their house, dont work and stay there forever. Nobody would choose strangers instead of their own family.

Of course by nobody, I mean, sane people, who actually worked in their life, paid taxes and showed no symptoms of sociopathy. At no point in your short post, did you mention what migrants should do, only what "we" (I guess you mean "us", not "you" by "we") must do. We are not robots, but human beings, who have free will.

[bryant.coleman]

Renzi, just did act "moderate". He annouced, that, if mandatory migrant quotas are not accepted by other countries, Italy will give free euro visa to everybody, who so far entered the country. Italian state will by this act alone, effectively legalize trans-med human trafficking and any sort of semblance of border control and security for its partners in Europe. No so long ago, this would be act of terrorism and reason for declaration of war.

That will be disastrous. If Italy gives free visa to everyone who lands there, soon millions of third world citizens will flock to that country. Not only Italy, but every single EU member will get flooded by the Sub Saharan immigrants, including countries such as Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia, which have no experience in dealing with them.

[mikaljan]

This year, aprox. 600 000 new asylum seekers are expected on EU borders, analysts already predict perhaps one million next year. This is nothing new, for years thousands were migrating towards Europe, searching refugee, better life or just piece of its welfare system. However current crisis is unlike any other for following reasons.

- Western Europe has been trying (and failing) its romance with multiculturalism for decades now, integration of millions of its "new citizens" has to large degree failed as we can see in cities such as Malmö, London, Paris, Calais or suburbs of Berlin. Letting in one million of foreigners with completely different value system every year might be just irresponsible.

- As direct result of the above, euro comitee now wants binding quota, that would force smaller countries to also take in refugees - this of course disregards the fact, that new member states such as Poland or Czech republic already took care for tens of thousands Ukrainians, Vietnamese and Roma. That just doesnt count.

- In most progressive countries such as Sweden or Austria, even small towns are now forced to take in migrants under the threat of government sanctions. In Austria, every town has to take in atleast 1 migrant per 266 inhabitants, in Sweden it is 1 migrant per 300 inhabitants.

- As result of the state sponsored multiculturalism (which all but replaced religion in northern-western Europe), any criticism of either immigration or Islam is seen as criminal offense in Sweden, starting from 1/1/2015.

- Cant speak for westerners, however in my country (Czech republic), 92% of population is against the quota and for self-determination and voluntary help. Regardless, local goverment already assured its citizens, that quota will be accepted in the future, it is only question when.

- Current euro asylum system is quite motivating for people smugglers (who already take aprox. 6000 dollars per migrant, before they allow them to board their ships). Recent tactics, is to throw (!) passengers overboard, when ship from some european nation appears on horizon, forcing the euro crew to rush to rescue. Job done, money already received.

- In places such as southern Italy, large mobs of visitors were leaving detention camps, occupying buildings, throwing out inhabitants if any were found inside. All areas heavily hit by migration start to heavily resemble Detroit.

- In northern France drivers and policemen are frequently attacked for preventing migrants to cross La Manche into the Britain - and its welfare system. Along with the fact, that 80% of these people are young men under the age of 30, it begs the question: Is their absolute majority fleeing from something or rushing towards it?

- Main donor countries: Kosovo, Eritrea, Nigeria, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia. Rich and culturally close countries (Saudi Arabia, Quatar, UAE) refuse to take them in. Countries responsible for unrest in middle East (vast majority of them english speaking) also do not take them in.
 
I ask for civil discussion on the matter. Thank you.

There is obviously some frustration in Brussels with UK Prime Minister David Cameron's approach to this summit. An official from one of the Mediterranean EU countries briefing journalists in the summit press area told us that his country was "…not like the UK".

Mr Cameron, he said, came here with the position: "We will give boats, we will give planes…but in exchange he doesn't want to take in any migrants."

[bryant.coleman]

There is obviously some frustration in Brussels with UK Prime Minister David Cameron's approach to this summit. An official from one of the Mediterranean EU countries briefing journalists in the summit press area told us that his country was "…not like the UK".

Mr Cameron, he said, came here with the position: "We will give boats, we will give planes…but in exchange he doesn't want to take in any migrants."

Cameron has made it clear that his country will not take any more Mediterranean immigrants. He came to power recently on a mildly anti-immigrant manifesto, compared to the pro-immigrant platform of the opposition Labor party. Also, you should remember that the United Kingdom is not part of the Schengen Area. The UK is one of the few EU members, having the power to "opt-out".

[Okurkabinladin]

Renzi, just did act "moderate". He annouced, that, if mandatory migrant quotas are not accepted by other countries, Italy will give free euro visa to everybody, who so far entered the country. Italian state will by this act alone, effectively legalize trans-med human trafficking and any sort of semblance of border control and security for its partners in Europe. No so long ago, this would be act of terrorism and reason for declaration of war.

That will be disastrous. If Italy gives free visa to everyone who lands there, soon millions of third world citizens will flock to that country. Not only Italy, but every single EU member will get flooded by the Sub Saharan immigrants, including countries such as Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia, which have no experience in dealing with them.

Exactly, Bryant. Vast majority of these migrants want to get a piece of northern european social welfare (nonexistent in south or east of EU), but, if they will be denied access there, they will move anywhere to wait it out and try again.

This could actually collapse entire european project, once citizens abidding by law realize, that they were sold out by elites.

EDIT: Take east euro country like Slovakia for example. Pensioner, who worked for many decades, paid taxes and raised children (new tax payers) has now rent of 450 euro a month. Illegal, young, healthy migrant from Africa costs on the other hand 1500 (!) euro a month (because unlike pensioner, state provides him with "free" housing, meals, courses aswell as vacations, permanently if needed).

Even disregarding security threats, danger of epidemics (as migrants are not properly screened anymore) and possibility of population replacement and destruction of indigenious culture. Even disregarding all that. European Union is blatantly breeching social contract with its citizens. Its basically pissing all over their heads.

[bryant.coleman]

EDIT: Take east euro country like Slovakia for example. Pensioner, who worked for many decades, paid taxes and raised children (new tax payers) has now rent of 450 euro a month. Illegal, young, healthy migrant from Africa costs on the other hand 1500 (!) euro a month (because unlike pensioner, state provides him with "free" housing, meals, courses aswell as vacations, permanently if needed).

Ever since the European Union came in to existence, the pensioners have seen many of their rights and privileges being taken away or reduced. This has been happening even before the latest wave of austerity measures. I feel bad for them, as most of them have payed their taxes for many decades, only to provide the recent immigrants with free food and housing.

[Okurkabinladin]

Bryant,

I dont blame those young people trying to get nice life with no work, its in human nature and they were misled by media, who told them we will gladly take care of them all.

I do blame western "elites", who not only propagate these lies, support human trafficking, but also somehow keeps telling its own working class people, that they must share their belongings as they are collectively guilty of leading lives in their native, european countries. Not so long ago, members of these "elites" would be hanged for treason and crimes against humanity.

I am increasingly sure, that civil unrest is coming and blood will fill the streets. All it takes is one more year of this and return of economic crisis. Thats all it takes.

[countryfree]

I'm not expecting the present situation to last long as this is raising popularity of the far right. Since elections are never far away in Italy, Renzi will have to act to keep moderate voters behind him.

Renzi, just did act "moderate". He annouced, that, if mandatory migrant quotas are not accepted by other countries, Italy will give free euro visa to everybody, who so far entered the country. Italian state will by this act alone, effectively legalize trans-med human trafficking and any sort of semblance of border control and security for its partners in Europe. No so long ago, this would be act of terrorism and reason for declaration of war.

I am for cancelling of Shengen and putting troops and militias on borders. As are 85% of my compatriots right now.

This isn't the only option, but with thousands arriving every month, and France blocking them at its border, Italy badly needs to do something. It just cannot afford to keep tens of thousands of migrants. There will hundred of thousands soon, something must be done.

[bryant.coleman]

This isn't the only option, but with thousands arriving every month, and France blocking them at its border, Italy badly needs to do something. It just cannot afford to keep tens of thousands of migrants. There will hundred of thousands soon, something must be done.

In the beginning, France was accepting these migrants from Italy. But then it became clear that for most of the migrants, countries such as France, Germany and the United Kingdom were preferred destinations, and they were using Italy just as a transit nation. Also, the Italian crime cartels, such as the 'Ndrangheta and Cosa Nostra are making billions of USD every year by smuggling migrants. The other nations did the right thing, by closing the borders.