Should i just move to china and farm bitcoins?

[Sakarias-Corporation]

Should i just move to china and set up a small Bitcoin farm ?

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[Sakarias-Corporation]

i'm actually serious. would it be worth it to save up some money and try to farm in china ?

[BitcoinAddicts]

why you want to setup mining farm in china but not in your country
tell us the reason, why you think china is better then your own country.

[Sakarias-Corporation]

why you want to setup mining farm in china but not in your country
tell us the reason, why you think china is better then your own country.

due to Electricity costs

[subSTRATA]

depends on a few things, do you have enough capital to invest in and maintain a mining farm that would generate an income enough you could live off of? if so i'd give it serious consideration.

it also helps if you speak chinese.

[Sakarias-Corporation]

depends on a few things, do you have enough capital to invest in and maintain a mining farm that would generate an income enough you could live off of? if so i'd give it serious consideration.

if i would go to chino, then we would be around 3 guys, so i'd say we'd have the money to start with

[subSTRATA]

if all three of you are already seriously considering this, id say start looking into places for housing and hosting your mining farm; if you can get clean electricity thats even better and cheaper (just a passing thought)

[el kaka22]

Where do you live now? How is your electricity cost now? And how much do you want to spend on buying/rent a house in China? The electricity cost there are about 0.5 CNY per kWh according to a Chinese mining site. Is it worth it for moving to China for just the electricity cost?

[Sakarias-Corporation]

Where do you live now? How is your electricity cost now? And how much do you want to spend on buying/rent a house in China? The electricity cost there are about 0.5 CNY per kWh according to a Chinese mining site. Is it worth it for moving to China for just the electricity cost?

i pay around 0,12 USD now per kWh.

well i'm willing to to spend as much as i can, now i couldn't move anywhere within 9 months tho. (going to London to work 6 months in September)

[Sakarias-Corporation]

Do anyone know a good website to check on locations / properties which you could rent ? i only find some high-en apartments lol

[Amph]

if you live in usa there is no need to go there, there are some place where you can get even cheap electricity, lower than 0.05

some example(this is still above china, but pretty good) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=487091.msg10683380#msg10683380

this is the best price that you can get i think, after that probably there is free electricity(someone else pay the bills...) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=887256.msg10995741#msg10995741

check that thread there are better place, with better electricity than chna

[Sakarias-Corporation]

if you live in usa there is no need to go there, there are soem place where you can get even cheap electricity, lower than 0.05

some example(this is still above china, but pretty good) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=487091.msg10683380#msg10683380

this is the best price that you can get i think, after that probably there is free electricity(someone else pay the bills...) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=887256.msg10995741#msg10995741

Sweden here :/ 33% tax on Everything here.

[Amph]

if you live in usa there is no need to go there, there are soem place where you can get even cheap electricity, lower than 0.05

some example(this is still above china, but pretty good) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=487091.msg10683380#msg10683380

this is the best price that you can get i think, after that probably there is free electricity(someone else pay the bills...) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=887256.msg10995741#msg10995741

Sweden here :/ 33% tax on Everything here.

yeah i know your feel, i'm from euro too, euro is probably the worst place to mine, if you can't go abroad, the only thing is investing in legit cloud site

[alani123]

Where are you located? You could get cheap electricity within the states as well. Getting your business licenced as industrial is something I can't be sure about though. You should probably look into it.

[Sakarias-Corporation]

Where are you located? You could get cheap electricity within the states as well. Getting your business licenced as industrial is something I can't be sure about though. You should probably look into it.

i live in sweden

[Sakarias-Corporation]

Actually, we would be 5 guys going.

[el kaka22]

Where do you live now? How is your electricity cost now? And how much do you want to spend on buying/rent a house in China? The electricity cost there are about 0.5 CNY per kWh according to a Chinese mining site. Is it worth it for moving to China for just the electricity cost?

i pay around 0,12 USD now per kWh.

well i'm willing to to spend as much as i can, now i couldn't move anywhere within 9 months tho. (going to London to work 6 months in September)

If your electricity cost is 12¢ (USD), then moving to China only saves about 4¢ per kWh, or 1/3 of the electricity costs. Also the salary and the quality of life in China is very low, look at the GDP per capita figures between China and the EU. So I only recommend to find some trusted host to host your mining equipments in China, and you may travel there sometimes to see how your mining goes.

Actually, we would be 5 guys going.

If you are 5 guys going, and assume an average house there cost 500000 CNY (but this price maybe outdated), then one should pay 100000 CNY, or 14500 euros to buy the house.

[Sakarias-Corporation]

Where do you live now? How is your electricity cost now? And how much do you want to spend on buying/rent a house in China? The electricity cost there are about 0.5 CNY per kWh according to a Chinese mining site. Is it worth it for moving to China for just the electricity cost?

i pay around 0,12 USD now per kWh.

well i'm willing to to spend as much as i can, now i couldn't move anywhere within 9 months tho. (going to London to work 6 months in September)

If your electricity cost is 12¢ (USD), then moving to China only saves about 4¢ per kWh, or 1/3 of the electricity costs. Also the salary and the quality of life in China is very low, look at the GDP per capita figures between China and the EU. So I only recommend to find some trusted host to host your mining equipments in China, and you may travel there sometimes to see how your mining goes.

Actually, we would be 5 guys going.

If you are 5 guys going, and assume an average house there cost 500000 CNY (but this price maybe outdated), then one should pay 100000 CNY, or 14500 euros to buy the house.

Actually, you could start with renting a house until everything goes around.

also the 12 Cent varies. 12 would be the lowest, sometimes we have to pay 15...

[alani123]

Sweden eh? Didn't notice the last post. Actually, I looked at some stats from eurostat and industrial electricity cost in Sweden is one of the lowest in Europe even after taxing. What figures do you have on electricity costs in China? Maybe moving to China wouldn't really help you profit more that you would in Sweden, moving so far also has its cost, living there too. Cooling would also be an issue since your plan is to mine. Sweden is pretty cool in terms of temperatures right?

[Sakarias-Corporation]

Sweden eh? Didn't notice the last post. Actually, I looked at some stats from eurostat and industrial electricity cost in Sweden is one of the lowest in Europe even after taxing. What figures do you have on electricity costs in China? Maybe moving to China wouldn't really help you profit more that you would in Sweden, moving so far also has its cost, living there too. Cooling would also be an issue since your plan is to mine. Sweden is pretty cool in terms of temperatures right?

according to my calculations i would save 50-60% on Electricity in China.
yes, moving there and so forth would cost a bit,  but it should be compensated by the Electricity Difference

[OgNasty]

You could move to Washington and get $0.03/kWh.  I've actually considered it but don't want to relocate.  I think it would be fairly easy to set up a property to make more than it's mortgage by mining bitcoins.  Especially since you could mine using mostly free equipment donated by those who are no longer profitable.

[Sakarias-Corporation]

You could move to Washington and get $0.03/kWh.  I've actually considered it but don't want to relocate.  I think it would be fairly easy to set up a property to make more than it's mortgage by mining bitcoins.  Especially since you could mine using mostly free equipment donated by those who are no longer profitable.

Where did you find that ?

[gallery2000]

too much risks.  How do you know that the communist government will not confiscate your miners? 

[subSTRATA]

You could move to Washington and get $0.03/kWh.  I've actually considered it but don't want to relocate.  I think it would be fairly easy to set up a property to make more than it's mortgage by mining bitcoins.  Especially since you could mine using mostly free equipment donated by those who are no longer profitable.

Where did you find that ?

couldnt exactly find something that cheap, but I did find this simple list of energy costs in the US: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/10/27/141766341/the-price-of-electricity-in-your-state

[Amph]

You could move to Washington and get $0.03/kWh.  I've actually considered it but don't want to relocate.  I think it would be fairly easy to set up a property to make more than it's mortgage by mining bitcoins.  Especially since you could mine using mostly free equipment donated by those who are no longer profitable.

Where did you find that ?

i provided to you the link before, i think you've missed it or something, because in that link there was a guy saying that he was consuming only 0.024, even lower than 0.03...

[subSTRATA]

You could move to Washington and get $0.03/kWh.  I've actually considered it but don't want to relocate.  I think it would be fairly easy to set up a property to make more than it's mortgage by mining bitcoins.  Especially since you could mine using mostly free equipment donated by those who are no longer profitable.

Where did you find that ?

i provided to you the link before, i think you've missed it or something, because in that link there was a guy saying that he was consuming only 0.024, even lower than 0.03...

I cant seem to find statistics for energy that cheap (http://www.statista.com/statistics/263492/electricity-prices-in-selected-countries/)
maybe its cheap hydroelectricity or special contracts for using several megawatts?

[Biodom]

Should i just move to china and set up a small Bitcoin farm ?

Are you ethnic chinese? If not, Georgia (a country in Europe) might be another candidate. Bitfury has a gigantic center there due to low cost of electricity.
Georgia is very interesting: it's got beaches, great food, great woods, mountains, all in a very small area. People are very friendly and passionate. You would have to haggle sometimes, but it is basically western. Religion there is mostly Georgean orthodox (a branch of christianity).

[gallery2000]

Are you Russian?  You can set up btc mining in eastern Ukraine Donetsk region for cheap.

[Biodom]

Are you Russian?  You can set up btc mining in eastern Ukraine Donetsk region for cheap.

Those are quite different. Eastern Ukraine is "almost" a war zone while Georgia (BTW, US ally) is basically a paradise: i visited it before.

[gallery2000]

Are you Russian?  You can set up btc mining in eastern Ukraine Donetsk region for cheap.

Those are quite different. Eastern Ukraine is "almost" a war zone while Georgia (BTW, US ally) is basically a paradise: i visited it before.

If you can weaponize your S5 to kill while mining then you will make tons of money.   S5, a mining and killing machine (why not?  If a light bulb can mine then an S5 can mine and kill).

[Biodom]

Are you Russian?  You can set up btc mining in eastern Ukraine Donetsk region for cheap.

Those are quite different. Eastern Ukraine is "almost" a war zone while Georgia (BTW, US ally) is basically a paradise: i visited it before.

If you can weaponize your S5 to kill while mining then you will make tons of money.   S5, a mining and killing machine (why not?  If a light bulb can mine then an S5 can mine and kill).

you lost me there , pal

[gallery2000]

Are you Russian?  You can set up btc mining in eastern Ukraine Donetsk region for cheap.

Those are quite different. Eastern Ukraine is "almost" a war zone while Georgia (BTW, US ally) is basically a paradise: i visited it before.

If you can weaponize your S5 to kill while mining then you will make tons of money.   S5, a mining and killing machine (why not?  If a light bulb can mine then an S5 can mine and kill).

you lost me there , pal

Here is an illustration of the ak-s5 prototype

[crazyearner]

Id move somewhere that has energy cheap land cheap and whorehouses cheap. Buy up some whorehouse for mining in, calculate total land cover and make upgrades. Install some solar panels some wind turbines and some heat converters, and some water turbines for local river. Sell energy back to energy company  reduce total cost or even have generators for no cost what so ever or very little. Generate other alts make more BTC than mining BTC direct. Take me with you and show you how its all done

[adaseb]

I think relocating somewhere just to mine is crazy. What will you do by the time you get there and set up and the difficulty doubles and price halves?

Why don't you just rent an apartment where the power is included with the rent? Most old buildings are like this.

[Sakarias-Corporation]

I've done a rough calculation where I've rounded everything up, according to my calculations, if I would only spend 15 BTC I'd go ROI after 8 months, which sounds pretty good (I've added a 8% increase in difficulty every 12th day)

[subSTRATA]

I've done a rough calculation where I've rounded everything up, according to my calculations, if I would only spend 15 BTC I'd go ROI after 8 months, which sounds pretty good (I've added a 8% increase in difficulty every 12th day)

the ROI might be a little longer if you have to use some of the mined coins for daily expenses as well, just something to keep in mind. another thing to keep in mind is upgrading and maintaining your miners, ROI might be further off than 8 months.

[Sakarias-Corporation]

I've done a rough calculation where I've rounded everything up, according to my calculations, if I would only spend 15 BTC I'd go ROI after 8 months, which sounds pretty good (I've added a 8% increase in difficulty every 12th day)

the ROI might be a little longer if you have to use some of the mined coins for daily expenses as well, just something to keep in mind. another thing to keep in mind is upgrading and maintaining your miners, ROI might be further off than 8 months.

Well according to my calculations I'd have enough to make it month to month, but I see where you're getting at, anything that can go wrong will go wrong.

I've never got these numbers, or anything closse to it with Swedish rates.

[crazyivan]

Why China? Iceland seems more acceptable.

[jimmothy]

I've done a rough calculation where I've rounded everything up, according to my calculations, if I would only spend 15 BTC I'd go ROI after 8 months, which sounds pretty good (I've added a 8% increase in difficulty every 12th day)

the ROI might be a little longer if you have to use some of the mined coins for daily expenses as well, just something to keep in mind. another thing to keep in mind is upgrading and maintaining your miners, ROI might be further off than 8 months.

Well according to my calculations I'd have enough to make it month to month, but I see where you're getting at, anything that can go wrong will go wrong.

I've never got these numbers, or anything closse to it with Swedish rates.

Can you share your calculations as well as sources for electricity rates? It sounds like you're comparing the lowest industrial electricity rates in China to residential rates in Sweden.

Also are you really considering moving across the planet for a possible ROI of a few btc?

[Xialla]

Should i just move to china and set up a small Bitcoin farm ?

to China? I never been here before, but for me it seems like place, where you need lot of contacts to gov, some officers etc. and shit lot of luck to make this happen.

in Washington, you need just money and it is imho much more safer at similar costs.

[nwfella]

Should i just move to china and set up a small Bitcoin farm ?

Why the heck not, assuming your ok with ~$750/month USD salary!

[RodeoX]

I would be worried about what happens when China's fickle regime decides to incorporate your farm into the glorious communist state. If your an American you may be surprised at how different business is there. You will have little protection.

[lasvegas83]

Very difficult business!

[Sakarias-Corporation]

Yes it's risky, but it would be a adventure ! I'm actually going to start saving and we'll see where I end up in 10 months

[chalkboard17]

I would be worried about what happens when China's fickle regime decides to incorporate your farm into the glorious communist state. If your an American you may be surprised at how different business is there. You will have little protection.

That's much more likely to happen in the US under IRS. What you describe would be more likely in Latin America than China. I have never heard of such things in China. Argentina and Venezuela on the other hand...

[jimmothy]

Yes it's risky, but it would be a adventure ! I'm actually going to start saving and we'll see where I end up in 10 months

In case you are serious, I'd still like to know what numbers you're using. China is not the place for cheap electricity, but for cheap labor and building materials. You can get cheaper electricity than the cheapest rates in China practically anywhere in northern Europe or North America.

[jimmothy]

Should i just move to china and set up a small Bitcoin farm ?

Why the heck not, assuming your ok with ~$750/month USD salary!

I think you mean negative $750/month salary..

[Glucose]

Yes it's risky, but it would be a adventure ! I'm actually going to start saving and we'll see where I end up in 10 months

If you really decide to do so, keep us updated I'm curious about your experience ! :-)

[MonkeyCoin11]

I think you shouldn't try to start a business in mining.
Do it as a passion, but the price is too low and the difficulty to high, you will lose money or earn pratically nothing.

If you really want to do it, I think china is not so bad, the electricity is not much cheaper but all miners a producted there so you will save money in shipping, custom duties, vat and probably other fee that you can have.
But why the hell would you leave all your friends to start a business that won't give you anymoney ?

[alh]

One other question I would add:

Do you already speak Chinese, and are you familiar withe culture and customs?

While I personally think it unwise to "chase BTC around the world", that's your choice to make. If it actually pans out as a currency it will be silly to have done so (IMHO).

After the next 20 years, there can't be any real money in a Bitcoin mining facility. After all, do the guys running the data centers that do the rest of the financial system make money on their slender fees in moving money and accounting?

[mwizard]

Yes it's risky, but it would be a adventure ! I'm actually going to start saving and we'll see where I end up in 10 months

In case you are serious, I'd still like to know what numbers you're using. China is not the place for cheap electricity, but for cheap labor and building materials. You can get cheaper electricity than the cheapest rates in China practically anywhere in northern Europe or North America.

The discussion on a major bitcoin mine at the Bitcoin mining discussion "Three months living in a multi-petahash BTC mine in Kangding, Sichuan, China" gives the price they are paying for electricity as RMB 0.2 per kWh or about $USD 0.03 per kWh.  That is really cheap and cheaper then anywhere I know in North America.   The thread is definitely worth a read if interesting in mining in China.

Eric,
At $150,000 [usd I assume] a month for power just how many kWh is that?

I don't remember that I said we paid $150,000 per month. But the number shouldn't be not too far off the mark either. Right now we have 11,377 S3 running - looking at the monitoring software now. And we pay RMB 0.2 per kWh. The math shouldn't be hard.

[PenguinFire]

if all three of you are already seriously considering this, id say start looking into places for housing and hosting your mining farm; if you can get clean electricity thats even better and cheaper (just a passing thought)

"Clean electricity"?  That would make many people's mind explod describing Chinese electricity.  Clean energy and China should never be in the same sentence. 

[Amph]

One other question I would add:

Do you already speak Chinese, and are you familiar withe culture and customs?

While I personally think it unwise to "chase BTC around the world", that's your choice to make. If it actually pans out as a currency it will be silly to have done so (IMHO).

After the next 20 years, there can't be any real money in a Bitcoin mining facility. After all, do the guys running the data centers that do the rest of the financial system make money on their slender fees in moving money and accounting?

besides this, having cheap electricity will not help that much your mining activity, it will be still far to difficult to earn something and make roi, there is no competition anymore for casual miner who are not willing to spend a tons, for building a big farm to compete with all the already big established farm

[mwizard]

if all three of you are already seriously considering this, id say start looking into places for housing and hosting your mining farm; if you can get clean electricity thats even better and cheaper (just a passing thought)

"Clean electricity"?  That would make many people's mind explod describing Chinese electricity.  Clean energy and China should never be in the same sentence. 

The large Bitcoin mine discussed in the bitcoin > mining tread "Three months living in a multi-petahash BTC mine in Kangding, Sichuan, China" is next to a hydroelectricity dam.  That is the reason the electricity is cheap (and clean).

China has extensive hydro power but much of it is a long way from the cities.  Chinese Bitcoin miners are able to get cheap access to to this power by locating near the dams.  This is similar to the reason KNC in Sweden is located near hydro power.

[jimmothy]

The discussion on a major bitcoin mine at the Bitcoin mining discussion "Three months living in a multi-petahash BTC mine in Kangding, Sichuan, China" gives the price they are paying for electricity as RMB 0.2 per kWh or about $USD 0.03 per kWh.  That is really cheap and cheaper then anywhere I know in North America.   The thread is definitely worth a read if interesting in mining in China.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114474/inside-a-tibetan-bitcoin-mine-the-race-for-cheap-energy

This article about the same mine says $0.045/kwh. Either way, $0.03/kwh is not the cheapest. There are places in North America/Europe with power at ~$0.02/kwh.

China has extensive hydro power but much of it is a long way from the cities.  Chinese Bitcoin miners are able to get cheap access to to this power by locating near the dams.  This is similar to the reason KNC in Sweden is located near hydro power.

The difference is that in China they have to move their farms out in the middle of nowhere, completely away from any cities, whereas in Europe/America they can set up mines near or in cities.

I don't think the OP is planning on moving to some desolate mountain in Tibet just to set up a mine with a few KW. Sounds like he thought electricity all over China is ultra cheap when it's really not.

[sgk]

Is it really necessary to MOVE to China in order to run a mining farm there?

Can't you just rent some space and hire some local labour to look after it?

[jimmothy]

Is it really necessary to MOVE to China in order to run a mining farm there?

Can't you just rent some space and hire some local labour to look after it?

Are you forgetting that the Chinese mines are located nowhere near the cities?

Hiring random people from another country to look after your farm sounds like a great way to get all your hardware stolen with zero possible recourse.

[Sakarias-Corporation]

how much BTC would you guys consider a good start for doing this ? (only gear wise, as in miners)

[jimmothy]

how much BTC would you guys consider a good start for doing this ? (only gear wise, as in miners)

Depends on how much money you want to lose.

[Amph]

how much BTC would you guys consider a good start for doing this ? (only gear wise, as in miners)

you need at least to aims at 1% of the network, i think, otherwise there is not even a remotely competition for you

with this in mind you need 3 petahash, which mean 3k antminers s5(not exactly but, just to have easy numbers), 1 antminers is 1.5 btc more or less, so we are looking at 4.5k btc to invest, and this counting only the miners