Bigger blocks don't scale!

[not altcoin hitler]

Bigger blocks do not scale. It's just kicking the can down the road and opening a can of worms.
Offchain transactions do scale on the other hand. You can have as many offchain txs as you desire.

Comments? 

[jonald_fyookball]

yes but bigger blocks are easy and low risk to implement now until sidechains etc are fully developed and thoroughly tested.

[jbrnt]

Larger blocks, offline transactions and sidechain are not mutually exclusive. We can have, will have, private payment systems (offline tx) and open payment systems (sidechains) to suppliment the mainchain. Kicking the can down the road is better than waiting for concepts to materialise.

[not altcoin hitler]

It's not like bigger blocks would come at no cost. They cost a lot. (investors confidence, nerves, nodes, HD space, bandwidth, and so on)
All this while blocks aren't even full. Maybe by the time blocks are full better solutions are already available.
Then again i think Gavin wants central planning and QE in btc why else wouldn't he want to test upward feepressure?

Offchain txs are available already, today. For example offchain settlement between big btc companies. That's a sector that can expand a lot. Big exchanges and payment processors aswell as online wallets can all settle once a day and keep all traffic offchain. Also microtransactions aren't needed on the chain but Gavin wants to accomodate them for whatever reason.

This Gavin-shitcoin doesn't make sens. Never has, never will. Mark my words: Gavin is gonna crash the ship. He's got no oversight over the bigger picture. He's lost in details. His judgement is not to trust.

[DooMAD]

Bigger blocks do not scale. It's just kicking the can down the road and opening a can of worms.
Offchain transactions do scale on the other hand. You can have as many offchain txs as you desire.

Comments? 

And how many offchain transactions will you be making if they're so great?  You say "offchain" like it's no big deal, but what you're proposing is a two-tier service.  Guaranteed security for anyone on the blockchain, risk for everyone else.  Placing trust in a third party to handle transactions for you kind of defeats the purpose of this whole idea, doesn't it? 

[jbrnt]

If blocks aren't full yet, then cost of bigger blocks is minimal now and we will have peace of mind for at least several years. Ample time to code and test the sidechain solution.

I am a supporter of off-chain payment networks too. There isn't one that is trustworthy and a lot of users are paranoid with these type of wallets with shared ownership of keys/multisig.

When I first started, inputs.io sounded promising and we know how it ended.  

[not altcoin hitler]

Bigger blocks do not scale. It's just kicking the can down the road and opening a can of worms.
Offchain transactions do scale on the other hand. You can have as many offchain txs as you desire.

Comments?  

And how many offchain transactions will you be making if they're so great?  You say "offchain" like it's no big deal, but what you're proposing is a two-tier service.  Guaranteed security for anyone on the blockchain, risk for everyone else.  Placing trust in a third party to handle transactions for you kind of defeats the purpose of this whole idea, doesn't it?  

What's the problem with a trusted exchange doing an offchain tx to a trusted payment processor or wallet?

If a service is dishonest it doesn't matter if you deal with it on or offchain.
If a service is honest it also doesn't matter if you deal on or offchain with it.
Point is: it doesn't matter with big (trusted) services if you're dealing on or offchain. Saves you txs fess too.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Bigger blocks do not scale. It's just kicking the can down the road and opening a can of worms.
Offchain transactions do scale on the other hand. You can have as many offchain txs as you desire.

Comments?  

And how many offchain transactions will you be making if they're so great?  You say "offchain" like it's no big deal, but what you're proposing is a two-tier service.  Guaranteed security for anyone on the blockchain, risk for everyone else.  Placing trust in a third party to handle transactions for you kind of defeats the purpose of this whole idea, doesn't it?  

What's the problem with a trusted exchange doing an offchain tx to a trusted payment processor or wallet?

that is the problem.

[Buffer Overflow]

Might as well just whip out the Visa card if on-chain are too expensive and left to use off-chain transactions.

[not altcoin hitler]

Bigger blocks do not scale. It's just kicking the can down the road and opening a can of worms.
Offchain transactions do scale on the other hand. You can have as many offchain txs as you desire.

Comments?  

And how many offchain transactions will you be making if they're so great?  You say "offchain" like it's no big deal, but what you're proposing is a two-tier service.  Guaranteed security for anyone on the blockchain, risk for everyone else.  Placing trust in a third party to handle transactions for you kind of defeats the purpose of this whole idea, doesn't it?  

What's the problem with a trusted exchange doing an offchain tx to a trusted payment processor or wallet?

that is the problem.

It's not. If the services don't send txs properly offchain the word will spread about that and soon they are out of business. You know how it's going in bitcoin land: if you have no trust score you can't do business.

Trust is hard to earn and easy to loose.

[not altcoin hitler]

Might as well just whip out the Visa card if on-chain are too expensive and left to use off-chain transactions.

Better than downloading 3 GB of data every day only so you can play satoshi dice for 10cents a bet....
AND HARDFORKING WITHOUT CONSENSUS YOU MORON!

[Moebius327]

Bigger blocks do not scale. It's just kicking the can down the road and opening a can of worms.
Offchain transactions do scale on the other hand. You can have as many offchain txs as you desire.

Comments? 

Well why not start using your credit cards if you like off-chain transactions so much.

[Nancarrow]

What's the problem with a trusted exchange doing an offchain tx to a trusted payment processor or wallet?

If a service is dishonest it doesn't matter if you deal with it on or offchain.
If a service is honest it also doesn't matter if you deal on or offchain with it.
Point is: it doesn't matter with big (trusted) services if you're dealing on or offchain. Saves you txs fess too.

Nothing at all wrong with any of that, except that it's exactly what we've had for decades with fiat. If you're happy with fiat why use bitcoin at all?

Bitcoin is ABOUT not having to trust any third party. Whilst it is inevitable that certain trust-requiring algorithms/institutions will be built on top of the core blockchain tech, it is important that everyone who wishes to continue using bitcoin in a trustless fashion, can do so.

[not altcoin hitler]

This thread is infested with always the same Gavin-tards. It bores me. None of you has a life, right? All you do all day long is shilling Gavincoin across all platforms?

R-E-T-A-R-D-S

[Nancarrow]

Better than downloading 3 GB of data every day only so you can play satoshi dice for 10cents a bet....
AND HARDFORKING WITHOUT CONSENSUS YOU MORON!

You *have* actually read Gavin's proposals, haven't you? You *are* aware that raising the blocksize limit doesn't happen until there's an overwhelming consensus, aren't you?

[Nancarrow]

This thread is infested with always the same Gavin-tards. It bores me. None of you has a life, right? All you do all day long is shilling Gavincoin across all platforms?

R-E-T-A-R-D-S

I find your argument not entirely convincing, sir. 

[jonald_fyookball]

This thread is infested with always the same Gavin-tards. It bores me. None of you has a life, right? All you do all day long is shilling Gavincoin across all platforms?

R-E-T-A-R-D-S

You are the one FUDDING.  Offchain transactions using trusted authorities pushes
Bitcoin toward centralization.   Calling a block increase "gavincoin" instead
of arguing the technical merits makes you the shill.

[DooMAD]

This thread is infested with always the same Gavin-tards. It bores me. None of you has a life, right? All you do all day long is shilling Gavincoin across all platforms?

Losing the debate again, let's call everyone Gavin-tards.  Really helping your cause there.  

If you don't appreciate the merits of a trustless, decentralised system that's open to everyone, why are you even here?  Call it shilling if you want, people are going to stand up for what they believe in.

[Buffer Overflow]

Might as well just whip out the Visa card if on-chain are too expensive and left to use off-chain transactions.

Better than downloading 3 GB of data every day only so you can play satoshi dice for 10cents a bet....
AND HARDFORKING WITHOUT CONSENSUS YOU MORON!

I've been debating recently whether to change my node over to XT or not.
Your angry personal attack has just made up my mind. THANK YOU.
I am changing it over tonight.

Hint: I'm not joking by the way. I really am.

Edit: Oh look what I've just found. User "Pecunia non olet" aka desperate Popescu is starting self-moderated threads now, so 20MB supporters can be silenced. LOL Too funny.  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077762.0

[Amph]

they still offer a bigger margin and provide a way to avoid to increase it again, in a not too distant future, and also cover our ass in the case the transactions per day skyrocket, one never knows, it could happen in few months if everything is put in the right place