MATTHEW FIRED FROM BITCOIN MAGAZINE

[thezerg]

@Loup, this is an odd post for you, as you are normally pretty hard-line.  I've actually lost a lot of respect for your words given your defense of MNW.  It is unacceptable to apply a different criteria to someone just because you happen to know he is a flake.  No one is welcome to make financial contracts they do not intend to keep and we as a community need to enforce that unilaterally.  Personally, I don't think this was a joke at first to MNW but that is irrelevant. 

There should be zero tolerance for "jokes" that masquerade as financial contracts.

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[LoupGaroux]

Ah well, such is the lot of the galvanizing rod.

For the record- I felt the bet was a bad idea from the get go, bad for Matty, and bad for anyone who took interest in it. It was an unneeded distraction at the point where the pirate situation was going critical, and gave a lot of normally very rational people a new shiny thing to pay attention to with hopes of getting even off somebody else's dime, and not waiting for pirate to be caught, keel-hauled, broken on the rack and forced to make restitution.

I am not "defending" Matthew. I am suggesting that we could look at context and scale and unleash our vengeance accordingly. Matthew was very, very naive, and showed incredibly poor judgement to conduct this matter the way he did. It was immature, it was foolish, it has destroyed his reputation. But families can handle one child who has behavioral control issues. He embarrassed himself, but he didn't actually rob anybody. We don't know what would have happened the other way, would everybody have paid him? I suspect not, but we will never know. Pirate on the other hand, did actually rob. A lot. Where do we want to put our energy? Beating up the child who made a bad set of decisions but harmed none, or the pathological liar who recruited a cadre of the best and the brightest here to be his henchmen and did steal, lie and cheat?

Personally, I only have so many evil villain mastermind slots that I can equip, and once I get done with the current US Administration, Bernacke, the intersango gango, kittens, my ex-wife, Modaff, the Occupy Movement and a couple of other true evils, I have to pick between pirate and Matty. Which leaves plenty to be hardline about.

[SysRun]

I am not "defending" Matthew   ...    He embarrassed himself, but he didn't actually rob anybody. We don't know what would have happened the other way, would everybody have paid him? I suspect not, but we will never know.

Perhaps you were not around for the original circumstances leading up to the bet.

I had 4800btc on the line. If pirate pays I break even. That's the whole point. The bigger bets that hedged early on would have paid. I have absolute confidence that BrightAnarchist would have paid as well.

That Matthews intent publicly morphed over the 3 weeks is clear. This allowed an attempted backslide out of the wager.

I suggest you read the earlier posts regarding the wager. Also, track down Micon's interactions with Matthew on his little donkdown podcast.

No one is arguing about pirate being the bigger criminal here. If we were debating this we may well have a debate about Ponzi being a bigger criminal than pirate because he was the pioneer and wrote the book. This logical fallacy can be put to rest.

While I appreciate your literary embellishments, and they are enjoyable to read, I wish that you would write plainly and to the point.

[LoupGaroux]

You must be right... I missed the part where Matthew proclaimed a break even service for victims of prate's fraud. You are transferring your hurt over the pirate debacle onto Matty and his ill-advised and ignorant "bet". You actually lost your 4,800 btc through pirate, you just lost out on the opportunity to break even with a doubling down bet. Did you escrow the funds to pay Matt in the event that you lost? Are those funds still available to you? You lost nothing, other than a chance to break even, which was never promised to you.

Be upset with pirate, that's the bad guy in this. Matt is foolish, and mouthy, and doesn't think before he speaks. And he was dead wrong in believing pirate to be anything other than a ponzi, but he didn't take your money. Weigh both sides of the equation Matt vs. pirate. React accordingly.

[Mosrite]

You must be right... I missed the part where Matthew proclaimed a break even service for victims of prate's fraud. You are transferring your hurt over the pirate debacle onto Matty and his ill-advised and ignorant "bet". You actually lost your 4,800 btc through pirate, you just lost out on the opportunity to break even with a doubling down bet. Did you escrow the funds to pay Matt in the event that you lost? Are those funds still available to you? You lost nothing, other than a chance to break even, which was never promised to you.

Be upset with pirate, that's the bad guy in this. Matt is foolish, and mouthy, and doesn't think before he speaks. And he was dead wrong in believing pirate to be anything other than a ponzi, but he didn't take your money. Weigh both sides of the equation Matt vs. pirate. React accordingly.

Loup, you're one of maybe three or four posters on here that is thinking rationally. Thank you.

[dancingnancy]

You must be right... I missed the part where Matthew proclaimed a break even service for victims of prate's fraud. You are transferring your hurt over the pirate debacle onto Matty and his ill-advised and ignorant "bet". You actually lost your 4,800 btc through pirate, you just lost out on the opportunity to break even with a doubling down bet. Did you escrow the funds to pay Matt in the event that you lost? Are those funds still available to you? You lost nothing, other than a chance to break even, which was never promised to you.

Be upset with pirate, that's the bad guy in this. Matt is foolish, and mouthy, and doesn't think before he speaks. And he was dead wrong in believing pirate to be anything other than a ponzi, but he didn't take your money. Weigh both sides of the equation Matt vs. pirate. React accordingly.

How do you know MNW and Pirate aren't in cahoots?  Perhaps the actions MNW took gave time to pirate to take care of his own personal obligations first during the initial chaos.  Why couldn't this be the case?

Luckily, I have no dog in this race.  At the very least, MNW is not someone that can be trusted in the future.  I am just hoping that these fucking assholes don't already have new moniker's in play for the next heist. 

After personally getting Zhoutonged and then witnessing this nightmare, I will never let my coins leave my own personal wallet ever again.

[jwzguy]

You must be right... I missed the part where Matthew proclaimed a break even service for victims of prate's fraud. You are transferring your hurt over the pirate debacle onto Matty and his ill-advised and ignorant "bet". You actually lost your 4,800 btc through pirate, you just lost out on the opportunity to break even with a doubling down bet. Did you escrow the funds to pay Matt in the event that you lost? Are those funds still available to you? You lost nothing, other than a chance to break even, which was never promised to you.

Be upset with pirate, that's the bad guy in this. Matt is foolish, and mouthy, and doesn't think before he speaks. And he was dead wrong in believing pirate to be anything other than a ponzi, but he didn't take your money. Weigh both sides of the equation Matt vs. pirate. React accordingly.

How do you know MNW and Pirate aren't in cahoots?  Perhaps the actions MNW took gave time to pirate to take care of his own personal obligations first during the initial chaos.  Why couldn't this be the case?

Luckily, I have no dog in this race.  At the very least, MNW is not someone that can be trusted in the future.  I am just hoping that these fucking assholes don't already have new moniker's in play for the next heist.  

After personally getting Zhoutonged and then witnessing this nightmare, I will never let my coins leave my own personal wallet ever again.

Exactly! Who cares if they have new monikers (they almost definitely do) if you protect yourself? Just don't get sucked into these schemes and it won't matter who is running them or what alias they are using.

[Rassah]

How do you know MNW and Pirate aren't in cahoots?  Perhaps the actions MNW took gave time to pirate to take care of his own personal obligations first during the initial chaos.  Why couldn't this be the case?

That... would be too scammy of a thing to do even for Matthew

[dancingnancy]

How do you know MNW and Pirate aren't in cahoots?  Perhaps the actions MNW took gave time to pirate to take care of his own personal obligations first during the initial chaos.  Why couldn't this be the case?

That... would be too scammy of a thing to do even for Matthew

Do you know him?  Does anyone know him - for fucking real?  Didn't some of these PPT guys actually meet Trendon in LV?  Or was that total bullshit, too? 

[Rassah]

How do you know MNW and Pirate aren't in cahoots?  Perhaps the actions MNW took gave time to pirate to take care of his own personal obligations first during the initial chaos.  Why couldn't this be the case?

That... would be too scammy of a thing to do even for Matthew

Do you know him?  Does anyone know him - for fucking real?  Didn't some of these PPT guys actually meet Trendon in LV?  Or was that total bullshit, too? 

From my interactions with him over the course of the year, Matthew never struck me as a rude, inconsiderate asshole (pirate definitely did). At most Matthew was always a somewhat insane weirdo with a severe lack of maturity, and excessive trolling tendencies. I may be wrong, but his character definitely did not fit the profile of someone who would team up with Pirate to purposefully rob people like that (I'm still of the opinion that he chickened out on the bet or something, which is different from basically premeditated theft.)

[dancingnancy]

How do you know MNW and Pirate aren't in cahoots?  Perhaps the actions MNW took gave time to pirate to take care of his own personal obligations first during the initial chaos.  Why couldn't this be the case?

That... would be too scammy of a thing to do even for Matthew

Do you know him?  Does anyone know him - for fucking real?  Didn't some of these PPT guys actually meet Trendon in LV?  Or was that total bullshit, too?  

From my interactions with him over the course of the year, Matthew never struck me as a rude, inconsiderate asshole (pirate definitely did). At most Matthew was always a somewhat insane weirdo with a severe lack of maturity, and excessive trolling tendencies. I may be wrong, but his character definitely did not fit the profile of someone who would team up with Pirate to purposefully rob people like that (I'm still of the opinion that he chickened out on the bet or something, which is different from basically premeditated theft.)

You are probably right, Rassah.  In the back of my mind though this whole thing seems orchestrated.  I'm not really familiar with this history like some of you are - has MNW been involved with any other BTC companies that have ripped off/ran away with btc?

I mean seriously, it would have been real easy for pirate to contact MNW (young and easily manipulated) and offer him 1000 BTC for him to make an ass of himself and keep the charade going.  MNW gains 1000 coins and loses his rep - he knows (or thinks) that this will never come back to haunt him because people already think he is an idiot.  

Pirate, in the meantime, is able to liquidate his holdings and get out while MNW is trying to subdue the rest of the large redemption's.  Like I said, I have no dog in this race, but if I did, I would definitely be checking out MNW just as much as Trendon.  

*** this is all, IMO ***

[Rassah]

You are probably right, Rassah.  In the back of my mind though this whole thing seems orchestrated.  I'm not really familiar with this history like some of you are - has MNW been involved with any other BTC companies that have ripped off/ran away with btc?

Not to my knowledge. All his companies have either got off the ground (Bitcoin Magazine) or flopped around and went nowhere (the Ellet), but I don't recall him ever actually taking people's money and not delivering the product (there WERE delays though).

I mean seriously, it would have been real easy for pirate to contact MNW (young and easily manipulated) and offer him 1000 BTC for him to make an ass of himself and keep the charade going.  MNW gains 1000 coins and loses his rep - he knows (or thinks) that this will never come back to haunt him because people already think he is an idiot.  

Pirate, in the meantime, is able to liquidate his holdings and get out while MNW is trying to subdue the rest of the large redemption's.  Like I said, I have no dog in this race, but if I did, I would definitely be checking out MNW just as much as Trendon.  

*** this is all, IMO ***

I have nothing in this race, either (the 20BTC bet wasn't something I was planning on keeping). If this is something that Matt would consider doing, it would surprise me. Matt struck me as someone who wanted to become big in the Bitcoin community, and was focusing on growing some sort of a reputation around it, with all his attempts at and involvement in businesses (though it WAS a really weird reputation). I think he would have considered the gain of $10,000 to be WAY less than what he thought he could earn from all his other business involvements.
But then, Matt has surprised me already with this stunt...

[dancingnancy]

Replace 1000 BTC with 5000 BTC and the scenario becomes much easier to imagine.  Not only that, but Pirate needed someone with at least a sliver of reputation left to keep it going while he made his own personal arrangements.  MNW fits that profile, IMO.  Just as you said, Rassah, people trusted him somewhat before this incident (just enough credibility to where some people would trust him, even though his behavior is odd) and not quite ghetto enough for no one to take him seriously. 



/Ok done with my tirade.

[Rassah]

Replace 1000 BTC with 5000 BTC and the scenario becomes much easier to imagine.

Still not quite. Remember the terms I used earlier, which someone else complained sounded too religious: good and evil? Matthew just does NOT strike me as being evil like that. $50,000 IS tempting, but, don't forget, we're all hoping to be multi-billionaire Captains of Industry™ here  

[DOH!]

Fuck you Andrew Bitcoiner, you scammy sack of shit!

[legolouman]

good riddance

P.S: Matt no harsh feelings but you seriously did it to yourself...

I lost every last shred of respect (and it wasn't much to begin with) I had for you the minute you set that ludicrous bet.

Though his bet was fool proof. If everyone paid up on his lower bets "offering 100% ROI if you don't think I have X to pay out" then he wouldn't be a scammer.