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Author Topic: [REQUEST] TO ALL POOL OPS  (Read 4554 times)
organofcorti
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September 10, 2012, 07:06:21 AM
 #1

UPDATE:

I'm in the middle of adding columns for Variable difficulty and Stratum/GBT to the Mining pools list. I'm a bit short on time this week, so I be ever so grateful if you could post whether or not you currently offer variable difficulty and if so whether it's User defined or a target of shares per minute (including the target number). Also please indicate whether you use Stratum or GBT or neither.

I know many of you plan on offering Variable difficulty shares and Stratum or GBT in the near future and if you post here when you do offer these options I'll be able to include it in the Mining pools list sooner


Hello Pool Ops!

Would you each mind having a look at the Mining Pools List and checking to see if anything I've written about your pool is incorrect?

I've done as much looking through pool threads as I can, but I'm aware some details are wrong - for example HHTT now has a variable fee, which is not listed correctly yet.

Also, if you're happy to have your pool listed in the thread, could you post there when you change details about the pool? I'll get the OP edited as soon as I can after you post a change to the pool.

Thanks all!

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Graet
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September 10, 2012, 07:53:52 AM
 #2

have done
looks fine
will do
thanks for taking the time to do this for miners  Cheesy
good work
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September 10, 2012, 08:05:16 AM
 #3

We pay for "orphans" in both Prop and PPS modes.

It's strange that you say "No" for most PPS pools on this matter. I think there is only one PPS pool that is not paying for orphans (and I'm not even sure about this).

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September 10, 2012, 08:15:48 AM
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Most people think Mt.Red doesn't pay for orphans because of the 120 confirmations, but orphans are actually paid... though I don't know if that's the pool Tycho talked about Wink

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September 10, 2012, 08:37:58 AM
 #5

BitMinter pays out orphans for a 1% donation. Maybe that doesn't fit easily in the tables, though. Cheesy

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organofcorti
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September 10, 2012, 08:38:28 AM
 #6

We pay for "orphans" in both Prop and PPS modes.

It's strange that you say "No" for most PPS pools on this matter. I think there is only one PPS pool that is not paying for orphans (and I'm not even sure about this).

Yes, I know. I started out with "Yes" but then I read something about a pool not doing this and then I noticed hardly anyone mentioning it in their initial thread post. Sorry! Will fix.

Thanks for letting me know.

Edit: Fixed!

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organofcorti
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September 10, 2012, 08:41:16 AM
 #7

BitMinter pays out orphans for a 1% donation. Maybe that doesn't fit easily in the tables, though. Cheesy


No. But what I would like to do is add another column which would be a short message from pool ops promoting one aspect of their pool they think is it's best asset. Like "BitMinter pays out orphans for a 1% donation". Short enough to fit on the page in a column.


Anyone think this is a good idea? If you do please post a short message that you'd like to go in the promo column.

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September 10, 2012, 09:20:11 AM
 #8

Most people think Mt.Red doesn't pay for orphans because of the 120 confirmations, but orphans are actually paid... though I don't know if that's the pool Tycho talked about Wink
They pay out only when they find a block though don't they, which is a bit unusual for PPS pools. What happens when the PPS payment is more than the block payment?
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September 10, 2012, 09:25:50 AM
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The wait for 120 confirmations is a residue from the time when Mt.Red was a prop pool. (The change prop->PPS was done with minimal changes to the software.) And yes, this is unusual.
Beside that Mt.Red is a "normal" 0-fee PPS pool, which pays for orphans and even pays out TX fees.
(Only downside is the rather mediocre uptime...)

You get always paid PPS, no matter if sharecount<difficulty or the other way. Mt.Red is "pure PPS" even if the block statistics may suggest other things...

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September 10, 2012, 09:43:27 AM
 #10

You get always paid PPS, no matter if sharecount<difficulty or the other way. Mt.Red is "pure PPS" even if the block statistics may suggest other things...
Nice, thanks for the clarification!
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September 11, 2012, 06:18:37 AM
 #11

  • "Pay orphans?" doesn't really make sense for *MPPS since it's PPS after all... Eligius does "pay orphans" in any case. I assume all the others do too, since I'm not really sure how to avoid it with *MPPS.
  • *SMPPS are not hoppable at all.
  • *SMPPS has zero maturity time
  • *SMPPS has lower instability than PPS (which should be the most unstable)

organofcorti
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September 11, 2012, 07:22:42 AM
 #12

  • "Pay orphans?" doesn't really make sense for *MPPS since it's PPS after all... Eligius does "pay orphans" in any case. I assume all the others do too, since I'm not really sure how to avoid it with *MPPS.
  • *SMPPS are not hoppable at all.
  • *SMPPS has zero maturity time
  • *SMPPS has lower instability than PPS (which should be the most unstable)

Thanks for the feedback Luke-Jr. I've fixed the Eligius listing. I agree that it would make sense that all *PPS and PPS variants would pay orphans, but unfortunately this is usually not seen in the intro post on this board - unless I see it stated specifically I've simply written "No" and hoped pool ops would correct me as necessary.

I'll only have room for one of your promo lines - which one would you like? And would you be able to post a quick explanation in the Mining pools list thread?

Thanks Luke-Jr!

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September 11, 2012, 08:01:27 AM
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  • "Pay orphans?" doesn't really make sense for *MPPS since it's PPS after all... Eligius does "pay orphans" in any case. I assume all the others do too, since I'm not really sure how to avoid it with *MPPS.
  • *SMPPS are not hoppable at all.
  • *SMPPS has zero maturity time
  • *SMPPS has lower instability than PPS (which should be the most unstable)

Thanks for the feedback Luke-Jr. I've fixed the Eligius listing. I agree that it would make sense that all *PPS and PPS variants would pay orphans, but unfortunately this is usually not seen in the intro post on this board - unless I see it stated specifically I've simply written "No" and hoped pool ops would correct me as necessary.

I'll only have room for one of your promo lines - which one would you like? And would you be able to post a quick explanation in the Mining pools list thread?

Thanks Luke-Jr!
Those weren't promo lines, they were corrections to your reward system graph...

organofcorti
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September 11, 2012, 08:04:48 AM
 #14

  • "Pay orphans?" doesn't really make sense for *MPPS since it's PPS after all... Eligius does "pay orphans" in any case. I assume all the others do too, since I'm not really sure how to avoid it with *MPPS.
  • *SMPPS are not hoppable at all.
  • *SMPPS has zero maturity time
  • *SMPPS has lower instability than PPS (which should be the most unstable)

Thanks for the feedback Luke-Jr. I've fixed the Eligius listing. I agree that it would make sense that all *PPS and PPS variants would pay orphans, but unfortunately this is usually not seen in the intro post on this board - unless I see it stated specifically I've simply written "No" and hoped pool ops would correct me as necessary.

I'll only have room for one of your promo lines - which one would you like? And would you be able to post a quick explanation in the Mining pools list thread?

Thanks Luke-Jr!
Those weren't promo lines, they were corrections to your reward system graph...

You mean Meni Rosenfeld's  Summary of mining pool reward systems?

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September 11, 2012, 08:19:02 AM
 #15

  • *SMPPS are not hoppable at all.
  • *SMPPS has zero maturity time
  • *SMPPS has lower instability than PPS (which should be the most unstable)
Why didn't you bother to read the definition of the terms?

"Maturity time" means the time until the reward is received. If an SMPPS pool has a very negative buffer, it will take a long time for miners to get the reward for current mining.

"Hoppable" means that some times are more attractive to mine than others (considering all metrics, not just expected reward). In an SMPPS pool it is more attractive to mine when the buffer is positive due to having no maturity time in this scenario.

"Instability" includes the severity of a collapse. If a PPS pool collapses nothing happens. If an SMPPS pool collapses miners can lose a lot of money.

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September 11, 2012, 08:35:57 AM
 #16

  • *SMPPS are not hoppable at all.
  • *SMPPS has zero maturity time
  • *SMPPS has lower instability than PPS (which should be the most unstable)
Why didn't you bother to read the definition of the terms?
I did.

"Maturity time" means the time until the reward is received. If an SMPPS pool has a very negative buffer, it will take a long time for miners to get the reward for current mining.
That's not the definition used in the table.

"Instability" includes the severity of a collapse. If a PPS pool collapses nothing happens. If an SMPPS pool collapses miners can lose a lot of money.
No, if a PPS pool collapses, miners lose their due balances. If a SMPPS pool collapses, nothing happens, and nobody is out any money due.

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September 11, 2012, 09:30:59 AM
 #17

But have done work you never get paid for. Of course, no one promised you that you WILL get paid because everyone should know that's possible with SMPPS + large negative buffer.

BUT

What's more painful? A PPS pool shutting down and losing some balance (I think no one keeps more than ~5 BTC on his pool account, at least I do) OR a SMPPS pool shutting down with negative buffer and losing everything you had in your buffer (which was as much as 30 BTC for some people on arsbitcoin IIRC)

OF COURSE the SMPPS pool op isn't "scamming" anyone when closing the pool and not paying out the buffer. But in the end miners can lose WAY more on SMPPS pool compared to a PPS pool. And I think more miners care about *that* fact instead of who is technically right...


And that's why I would never mine on a SMPPS pool [with negative buffer].

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September 11, 2012, 09:24:20 PM
 #18

EMC pays for orphans with a 100% donation.  Just sayin'


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September 11, 2012, 10:01:11 PM
 #19

EMC pays for orphans with a 100% donation.  Just sayin'

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September 15, 2012, 11:55:11 AM
 #20

I think no one keeps more than ~5 BTC on his pool account
But really, there are many users who keeps more than 100 BTC on his pool account. May be this wrong, but they don't care.

And that's why I would never mine on a SMPPS pool [with negative buffer].
You are free man, so you can do whatever you want, even if you want compare incomparable things. But why should we worry about that?

P.S. I can think that I'm Julius Caesar.  Cheesy

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